Is this a broad nib Parker 51?

[Severn]

I have a UK Parker 51 that has a nib that physically looks like a medium but compared to my Parker 45's it writes very wet and broad - I prefer my nibs fine/medium. Is this normal for a 51 or should I try and swap the nib for a fine, or try and fix this one? The ink flows out very thick and fast, but smoothly!

The sample below is on Rhodia with Parker inks. Top one is medium 45, middle the 51, bottom a fine 45; and a close-up of 51 nib.

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Severn

[Dione]

It looks like a very nice broad nib. Maybe a bit of a gap between those tines, but wet and juicy. 

[Karmachanic]

My 51 M writes a fat B and the F writes a fat M.

I opened the tines on the WS 601 and it writes a juicy EF

[Ferocity]

Yours looks like a really fat medium. it might genuinely be a normal single broad (a.k.a. a broad nib). besides the tines having a little gap, I think yours is definitely in pristine condition! What I mean is: I don't think a nibmeister has gotten his hands on yours to grind on. Whatever it is, it seems like an excellent nib~!

 

I've attached some photos so you can compare and contrast. The first photo is of my Parker VP. I just got it in the mail not 30 seconds ago so it's a little dirty. It's most definitely a broad or a double broad. This Burgundy Parker 51 is a broad oblique (i think) or a double broad oblique(I hope), but I'm not sure. However, it's pretty much the exact same dimensions as the VP. Also I'm not sure if some nibmeister got their hands on this Parker 51 in the past to do a little grinding on this nib, but I think it's not in pristine condition like yours is. 

 

The Parker 51 in dove gray is an extra fine(i think).

 

The Parker 51 Special in midnight blue or cedar blue is definitely a fine.

 

The Black Parker 21 Super is a medium, but I used to think that it was a broad because of how thick it would put down lines. I think yours is a little thicker than this one. I wish I could tell you if yours is a medium or a broad but for me, YOURS puts down such a fat line that I would consider it a broad... then again, this Parker 21's nib is pretty much the exact same thickness as my Parker insignia EXCEPT the 21 Super is a little thinner AND THAT INSIGNIA IS LABELED AS A MEDIUM. 

 

So as far as yours go, honestly it might be a broad or a medium. it's definitely not an oblique, but it certainly puts down some fat lines. Since the tines are spread a little it also helps make your lines thicker (obviously). I don't know = )

i also used a ruler in the photos

MAYBE that'll help = )

good luck!

congratulations on your Parker 51 ~ !

the nib on it is immaculate~!

[Ferocity]

If in the future you decide you want to get rid of that nib, I'd be more than happy to provide it with a good home

= )

[inkstainedruth]

My guess is that the nib is a B.  It looks wider than the M nibs on my Plum Demi and Midnight Blue Aero, and similar (except of course for the angle) as on the OB nib on my English-made Navy Gray Aero.  

In addition, my understanding (from what I've read in other threads) is that the English production 51s tended to be wider in general (that was the preference).  So if yours is an English-made 51, Severn, it is more likely to be a B rather than an M.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Severn]

Thank you all for those very helpful replies

@Ferocity those photos are great to see, thanks. Yes, the nib looks in great condition the pen overall is very decent. It just arrived this week so I'm trying to see if I can live with this broad nib. Although at around the $35 I paid for it I'm not complaining!

I have some more photos below of the nib, and also one in comparison with my 144 MontBlanc that's an M nib. The MontBlanc also lays down a very similar heavy line, but the 51 is much wetter and I think just a fraction wider too.

Another question: In the side view photo, is the hood touching too much on top of the nib? Would this make the ink flow more because of this contact?

 

 

 

[Ferocity]

wow that looks like a full millimeter; which would put it in the broad territory = )

That gorgeous nib looks fatter and fatter every time I look at it = )

what a beautiful

beautiful pen

 

35!?!? You lucky ❤️👍 Enjoy it THAT SOUNDS AWESOME = )

 

The hood+the nib: both my Parker 51s are exactly like that(The hood being right up against the nib), and even my Parker 51 special is like that so no worries = )

Remember I'm pretty new at this, and I am not an expert 👍

it seems to me like having the back of the nib right up to the hood is not a good idea though🤷🏻‍♂️ then again; I'm not an engineer. There's a person who runs a company who's all about fixing Parker 51 Fountain pens and on their website they say how important it is to have a certain distance on the feed and the nib and how they get pens who have already been to "professional shops," that end up messing up this "distance." This seems unlikely to me, but it is possible that all four of our pens have had their nibs placed incorrectly by different people because whenever they opened them up and "fixed them,"didn't do so correctly. BUT for all four pens to be like that? Maybe... but probably not. I think that they're supposed to be like that, but I don't know for sure.

 

As far as the ink flow = )

From what I understand: if you're at the very tip of the nib, pushing down from the top of the nib would cause the tines to come together, and reduce ink flow. It's a little different when your hood is doing it though because it's not pressing down at the very tip of the nib. honestly the best way to tell would be to see if the space between the tines changes by having pressure or no pressure at that contact point. If the tines come apart when you apply pressure, then you'll have greater ink flow and if the tines squeeze together when you apply pressure then you have reduced ink flow. theoretically I think that having pressure there should make the tines split and thus increase ink flow, but it is pretty much near the end of the nib so honestly I'd have to press down on it myself and see what it does... PREFERABLY without the hood and just the naked nib all by itself. It seems like you scored big time~! Congratulations = )

[Barry Gabay]

Hello Severn & Ferocity  and others,

 

Great photos. I agree that Severn's 51 is a B or BB. Among my UK 51s there are a couple which are very broad. Those widths are not uncommon among the UK 51s and 61s I have seen and bought over the years. I agree with Ferocity that the nib & shell (or hood) seem properly aligned  on Severn's 51. On a few of my UK 51s there is a slight gap between the nib and end of the hood's interior. I was told that this was a flaw, as all of my US 51s have no visible space between the nib's top and interior of hood. But I have several UK 51s with the space visible, so I assume this normal for some. The hoods are not misshapen and the nibs are properly set with the feed and surrounding collector. The small gap has no impact on the writing performance of those 51s. Will try to attach photos of some UK 51s with B orBB nibs. The cocoa 51 is from US, and seems to be medium; others are from UK and wider.  Hope this works. Fingers crossed. 

[Severn]

Thank you for those photos and explanations about your own experiences. It helps me understand better the parameters of this beautiful fountain pen.
I guess my only option is now to continue my hunt for a fine nib

[inkstainedruth]

You paid $35 for a 51 with a B nib?  I hate you.  

Just kidding, but I AM completely jealous... Besides the English-made Navy Gray (which was roughly three times the price + the buyer's premium as yours), ALL my 51s are in the EF-M range.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Carguy]

That is a beautiful nib! I haven’t had much luck with good 51 nibs found in the wild lately, although I did pick up a nice later model 61 Aero with a sturdy M nib that writes nicely 

[thx1138]

I was after a true medium 51 nib. Every pen I bought was a B, BB or B stub. I think i finally got an M in the sixth pen.

[Severn]

I think I'll defiantly keep this one for now, as it does write beautifully, and maybe try once more for a fine nib. I really only wanted one nice example of the 51, so should I find another one in fine then I'd probably sell this one on.

[Ferocity]

right on = )

glad to hear you're happy with it = )

[Aysedasi]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:34 PM, Severn said:

Thank you for those photos and explanations about your own experiences. It helps me understand better the parameters of this beautiful fountain pen.
I guess my only option is now to continue my hunt for a fine nib

 

I would very happily receive that nib to my home address...... 

[Ferocity]

1 hour ago, Aysedasi said:

 

I would very happily receive that nib to my home address...... 

you and me both good buddy 😃

[Severn]

Well, I've now changed the ink to a Pelikan 4001 black and it writes like a true western medium.
It was laying down a 1mm width line and was so wet that I could hardly keep up. Now the line is 0.8mm and it's much calmer and I can finally use it as a daily writer.

[welch]

18 hours ago, Severn said:

Well, I've now changed the ink to a Pelikan 4001 black and it writes like a true medium.
It was laying down a 1mm width line and was so wet that I could hardly keep up. Now the line is 0.8mm and it's much calmer and I can finely use it as a daily writer.

 

Great! My (almost blind) guess: you have an English P-51 medium. For some reason, Parker "England" made chunkier nibs than Parker US, and more mediums than the US factory. That must have been what the market wanted, but I have no idea why. 

 

If you want a fine nib, my experience says to look for US-made P-51s. Tom "Old Griz" Mullane once told me that of all the P-51s he saw, about 75% or 80% had fine nibs.