Leonardo: Jowo & Bock Identification

[sketchstack]

I’m new to Leonardo pens and I understand at some point they switched from Bock to Jowo. 

 

Is there a way to visually discern the nib type?

 

With many pens I can observe the feed and/or unscrew the nib to see what the collar and threads look like. But complicating things is the fact that my pen has the ebonite feed and possibly a glued in nib unit. So I can’t tell based on the feed, nor do I want to risk over torquing my nib unit only to discover it’s glued in place. 

 

?

[FrankvK]

The Jowo nib will have the V shape (following the lines of the nib from tip to shoulder) pressed in the nib, rather that the lighter engraving.

Also, the size of the tip would be central and engraved on a Bock, stamped on the side of the (Steel) Jowo nibs

[sketchstack]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:39 AM, FrankvK said:

The Jowo nib will have the V shape (following the lines of the nib from tip to shoulder) pressed in the nib, rather that the lighter engraving.

Also, the size of the tip would be central and engraved on a Bock, stamped on the side of the (Steel) Jowo nibs

 

Thank you, this is very helpful. 

 

Do you know if the Bock nib & feed can be pulled out? I've read that some of them are glued but I don't know if that's true. 

 

Thanks again. 

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, sketchstack said:

Do you know if the Bock nib & feed can be pulled out?

 

I pulled them out from my Leonardo Momento Zero Blue Hawaii (bought two years ago), without destroying any of the pen's components as far as I'm aware, so it must be possible (cf. can).

[maclink]

Do the Grande versions come with Jowo nibs?

On 3/3/2021 at 9:39 AM, FrankvK said:

The Jowo nib will have the V shape (following the lines of the nib from tip to shoulder) pressed in the nib, rather that the lighter engraving.

Also, the size of the tip would be central and engraved on a Bock, stamped on the side of the (Steel) Jowo nibs

Do the Grandes all come with Jowo nibs.  The nib size stamping in centred for the Grande, but then it also has the V shaped engraving.  

 

[sketchstack]

21 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I pulled them out from my Leonardo Momento Zero Blue Hawaii (bought two years ago), without destroying any of the pen's components as far as I'm aware, so it must be possible (cf. can).

 

Thanks, good to know. Apparently I have a Bock in my Grande Furore and I have a spare Bock nib I'd like to try out. Maybe a weekend project. 

[dms525]

With all due respect to Frank, some of the Bock nibs have that "V" engraved and some do not. And the placement of the nib width designation is not consistent with the JoWo nibs.

 

Leonardo's switch to JoWo nibs occurred in January, 2021. This includes the Grande size pens. Prior to that, all models had Bock nibs.

 

Now, the exception to these generalizations may be the MZ Grande models with #8 size nibs, since JoWo does not make these currently, AFAIK.

 

David

[sansenri]

I appreciated David's photo in the Leonardo thread showing the Bock and Jowo feeds.

 

From my experience, by looking at the feeds, I seem to have Bock nibs only on my Leonardos, but one of them has the engraved V.

This pen was bought at the end of 2018 (17-10-2018) when there were no talks yet of switching to Jowo...

(the EXIF data of the photo says the shot was taken  2019:06:08 19:33:26)

 

So unless we have further proof, I also tend to think that the engraved V is not an indication that the nib is Jowo.

[como]

10 hours ago, sansenri said:

So unless we have further proof, I also tend to think that the engraved V is not an indication that the nib is Jowo.

I agree that V is not a definitive Jowo indication. I don't have a lot of Leonardos. They are all Bock nibs with either plastic feed or ebonite feed. The last I purchased was a Cuspide Arco with size 8 gold nib and ebonite feed last October, of course Bock. I would like to know if their new Momento Zero and Furore (the regular size, not Grande) with steel nibs are with Jowo. I have a very well tuned 18k Jowo nib waiting to be swapped in!

[sansenri]

I have not tried unscrewing the nibs, are they mounted in standard Bock and Jowo housing? or did you plan to just pull the nib out?

I actually also have a gold Jowo nib that could be used for the same purpose...

although so far I'm enjoying the bouncy Bock steel nibs.

[Newton Pens]

Bock and Jowo have different shaped nibs, housings, and feeds.

Generally - Jowo will always look like this- regardless of any engraving on there b/c that stuff can be customized.

SOMEtimes the housings will be different if the pen maker requests it - but generally this is what they look like.

From the nib to the housing to the feed.

 

 

And Bock usually look like this - same note about customizations.

 

And generally the nibs don't swap well from one housing to the other.  I think you'd get better luck with a Jowo nib in a Bock housing than a Bock nib in a Jowo housing.  Jowo has a slight downward curve, Bock is straight.  A Jowo nib on a Bock feed will contact the entire feed and flow well enough, but there will be a small gap with a Bock nib on a Jowo feed, b/c the Jowo feed curves down a little, and the Bock nib is straight.  Generally.  Some Jowo parts are different, older ones especially (10 years ago or so).  But pen makers can request different things, so it's going to vary.

[dms525]

6 hours ago, como said:

I agree that V is not a definitive Jowo indication. I don't have a lot of Leonardos. They are all Bock nibs with either plastic feed or ebonite feed. The last I purchased was a Cuspide Arco with size 8 gold nib and ebonite feed last October, of course Bock. I would like to know if their new Momento Zero and Furore (the regular size, not Grande) with steel nibs are with Jowo. I have a very well tuned 18k Jowo nib waiting to be swapped in!

The new (2021) Leonardo pens with JoWo nibs and C/C filling have screw-in housing. The nibs can be swapped with other standard JoWo #6 nibs. The pens that are piston fillers have friction-fit nibs and mostly have in-house-made ebonite feeds. I am not so sure these can be easily swapped, because I do not know if the housing is also customized and non-standard.

 

A minor curiosity: In my limited experience of 4 Delta pens, the piston-loaders had screw in Bock nibs. The C/C-fillers had friction-fit nibs/feeds. This is the opposite of Leonardo's practice.

 

These conclusions are based on my own experience and do not necessarily reflect Leonardo's "policy."

 

David

[Newton Pens]

and here's an example of what I was talking about-

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, Newton Pens said:

Bock and Jowo ...‹snip›... generally this is what they look like.

 

Thank you very much for posting that!

[como]

On 3/7/2021 at 6:30 PM, dms525 said:

The new (2021) Leonardo pens with JoWo nibs and C/C filling have screw-in housing. The nibs can be swapped with other standard JoWo #6 nibs. The pens that are piston fillers have friction-fit nibs and mostly have in-house-made ebonite feeds. I am not so sure these can be easily swapped, because I do not know if the housing is also customized and non-standard....

Thank you, David, very helpful! 

[como]

On 3/7/2021 at 5:37 PM, Newton Pens said:

... I think you'd get better luck with a Jowo nib in a Bock housing than a Bock nib in a Jowo housing.  Jowo has a slight downward curve, Bock is straight.  A Jowo nib on a Bock feed will contact the entire feed and flow well enough, but there will be a small gap with a Bock nib on a Jowo feed, b/c the Jowo feed curves down a little, and the Bock nib is straight.  Generally.  Some Jowo parts are different, older ones especially (10 years ago or so).  But pen makers can request different things, so it's going to vary.

From my experience, this is true. I put a Jowo size 6 steel nib (just the nib) into a Leonarod Furore pen bought two years ago, and it worked fine. It was not a perfect fit but it worked. It's good to know that the other way around will not be as good. Thanks!!