Ink for a 400nn

[Firecrest]

I've just purchased a 400nn in tortoiseshell which will be with me in a few weeks time.  I bought it owing to my surprisinly strong affection for a 140 bought last year.  Being used to Japanese fine nibs I have found the ef on the 140 broader, but that was what I expected.  What I didn't expect was the delightful experience of writing with it despite being aware of others' very positive comments.  So it is that I succumbed to the lure of 400nn also with an ef nib.  I use Kon peki in the 140 which I find just a little on the wet side.  What would go well in this new (old) pen?  I've long been tempted by essri ink but don't know if it would suit this kind of pen - I have never tried any kind of iron gall ink but I know people speak highly of it.  Any thoughts?

 

 

[Runnin_Ute]

I have used the following in my 400NN (also a EF):

Pelikan 4001 Blue Black

Levenger Cobalt Blue

Edelstein Sapphire

Edelstein Olivine

 

All with pretty good success. The Cobalt Blue is probably the wettest of the four, and 4001 Blue Black the driest. (it is an iron gall according to Pelikan's website but pretty mild) I keep 4001 Blue Black in my 140 pretty much exclusively. My records going back to late 2019 show I have used Sapphire in it the most.

[peroride]

Along with Pelikan of course, Quink and Waterman blues work great in vintage 400NN

[stoen]

Hello,

 

I’ve written with three 400NN pens for so far (1959 models) and feel very familiar with the model. Two of the pens have OF nibs, one has EF. All the three are moderately flexible.

I got the best writing result with the EF nibbed pen in terms of line width control, nuancing and shading with the Pelikan 4001 Blue Black. 

Great about it is that it is a plain, inexpensive ink available everywhere.

 

The second best to me with such a pen and nib is Pelikan Smoky Quartz.

 

Both of this inks belong to the “low maintenence” category, which means no special pen care (above standard cleaning and rinsing) is required.

 

I’m sure there are other low-maintenence inks which can give good writing results with a 400NN EF. These two can be recommended from my long-time personal experience with my particular pen.

 

Hope this can help.

[mana]

You can't go wrong with Pelikan 4001 inks. Pelikan 4001 Blue Black is my staple dry ink that is most often found in my vintage Pelikans (they tend to be on the wet side to begin with).

[Bo Bo Olson]

15 hours ago, stoen said:

Great about it is that it is a plain, inexpensive ink available everywhere

Not in the US unless you order a few inks from gGrmany or England and 'smuggle' it in. Is illegal in the States, due to whimpy US rats being force fed that BB ink....didn't use strong Norway rats....be warned if you drink enough BB ink you could get cancer........same goes for BBQ.

So do not baste your BBQ ribs with Pelikan BB.

 

 

Just realized........with EF you need supersaturated inks.....more than shading inks.................I don't know what supersaturated inks are dry ones. Most of my inks are shading ones, only have a few supersaturated ones.

 

IG inks work fine in a 400NN semi-flex..............the problem is the nib will write wet because it is semi-flex. there for you have to use a dry ink on good to better paper, if you want any shading.

 

ESSR is a good IG ink, I love the way it turns from blue to black....on some papers fast. Any good blue -black will change color often with in a day....sometimes ESSR takes three days depending on the paper.

Lamy Turquoise was one the basis turquoise ink, Pelikan's turquoise matches it. The Brilliant brown is a bit red. The Violet is nice. The black was once for decades the second best black ink after Aurora.

 

R&K makes good inks, Verdura a green-green ink is a tad better than MB Irish, and a bit better than the discontinued 4001 Brilliant Green....I don't care for the new dull 4001 Green....but folks yammered cubed, they wanted a dark dull green, instead of the nice green-green that once was.

 

I've some 35 semi-flex pens, 6-7 Pelikans.....Only some 3 EF's (other brands) in I'm not into narrow nibs.....when I got my 400nn OF...I thought that a thin nib; in I'd gone wide when returning to fountain pens instead of narrow.

Except for editing, I seldom use an EF.

 

 

Waterman is a wet ink......was once known for it....some Noodler users consider it a dry ink, so be careful and look up any Noodler's ink  in ink reviews, looking for the dry ones.

 

 

Actually I like regular flex for shading in it is a dryer nib, and I don't have to match paper to ink well, to get shading like I do with a semi-flex nib.

 

I like Herbin. A good shading ink....in this case you need to find a good slick paper to make it shade with a wet nib. Clairefontain Triumphe, Rhoda 80/90g....are good slick papers.

DA, has wet and dry inks....look in Ink Reviews to see which. And which ones are well saturated.

I went form Waterman to DA Royal Blue, in it was more saturated, and well lubed.

 

[Firecrest]

Thanks Bo Bo and everyone else.  I normally write on TR paper which most inks seem to respond well to.  I am really intrigued by ESSRI  - it sounds like an adventure into a very different sort of ink.  But the only Pelikan ink I've tried is Edelstein Topaz which responded to random other paper in a way that my wetter Japanese inks don't  - it didn't feather at all.  So my other possibility is Pelikan BB...or just stick with the Topaz!  But I like trying out stuff so ine of those others might be the next one...

[Bo Bo Olson]

I like Topas a lot.

I've only got 70 inks. I've not tried Tansenite, supposedly a tad wetter Pelikan BB. I have a bottle. I must have 7-8 BB's; and I don't 'collect' BB's. They just happen over a decade.

 

But being in GB, you can get 4001 BB, world re-known as one of the finest BB.

ESSR comes in a 110ml, plastic bottle, so will last a while. It should be used up in a couple of years. It lacks some chemicals other inks have.

 

You should look it up in ink reviews. I called it a sneaky ink, Sandy1, called it mischievous. It is one of the very longest threads ever on the com.

I dis-remember the exact name...Sanford, or something similar. It had been one of the British's oldest and biggest ink companies. It was bought up by a conglomerate, that wanted only to sell the land the factory stood on, so closed it down.

 

One of the managers liked their BB ink, and got the wooden tun it was made in, and the recipe as part of his golden egg, when he was like all of them, fired. He kept making the ink. I would guess it's still in family hands. I don't know. 

It was then when the thread started, more more liked than Diamine register ink.

So get both the Pelikan 4001 BB and the ESSR.

[stoen]

On 2/17/2021 at 12:23 AM, Firecrest said:

I am really intrigued by ESSRI  - it sounds like an adventure into a very different sort of ink.

Well, I have not mentioned Iron Gall inks, because they belong to a different category, much higher maintenence required, including rinsing the pen with water before almost each refill, unscrewing the nib unit every few months and thorough soaking the nib unit and cleaning the barrel inside. One can’t fail being familiar with these procedures before going for IG inks.

 

I have this had experience with Diamine Registrars and R&K Scabiosa. They are truly great inks in terms of writing properties; allegedly much fountain pen friendlier than old-school IG inks, yet I cannot forget and use them as if they were plain, low-maintenence inks. I know some may disagree with me, but this is my experience with 400NN EF.

 

Last, but not least, I didn’t find some modern, pigment saturated inks work great with this pen, no matter how they call them, micropigment or nanopigment...

🙂

 

Hope this can help.

[Bo Bo Olson]

55 minutes ago, stoen said:

ncluding rinsing the pen with water before almost each refill,

No, ...myth paranoia....that is sometimes found here on the com.

Even back in the day of stronger IG inks, the '50's I have both a Pelikan and MB instruction sheet, that says clean the pen every three months.

I can see soaking a steel nib section.....but if cartridge pen, a simple cleaning with a round rubber syringe like you do for any ink change will do. (Actually that should work just as well with stainless steel .... in gold is more resistant. If you are using an antique pen with a steel, not stainless steel nib, then I can see cleaning it every month.

 

If you have a Pelikan you should buy a second rubber ball syringe and cut it to fit your screw out nib section....makes for more rapid cleaning, of any ink.

 

Some say clean your IG filled pen every month, I think that a bit too much, I think every six weeks would do just fine for the fearful...assuming stainless steel nib, gold can wait longer.

However most folks don't use the same ink for six weeks, as is.

 

Of course if you often have 17 pens inked, there would be times when, I'm sure I try to use up either of my R&K IG inked pens before it sits there three months..........if it does? So? They would have gold nibs. I'm sure I'd be a tad paranoid about a stainless steel nibbed pen sitting there for over three months........but think that has more to do with sitting there three years, for damage to occur to stainless steel.

It was carbon steel that got ate up so much.....and or, the owner not knowing he was supposed to clean his pen every three months.

 

Unless you are using a clear demonstrator, I don't see a reason for cleaning the barrel  until you change ink, like normal. IG inks today are as I read it, not so strong as in vintage times. Even if that strength, Pelikan and MB thought once every 3 months was adequate.

 

[stoen]

4 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

No, ...myth paranoia....that is sometimes found here on the com.

Hello,

please, don’t mind my straightforward answering:

• first of all, naming other persons  technical experience and effort of giving a helpful explanation a “myth paranoia” is kind of a “strong statement” (please, pardon my wording), with all due respect to writer’s reputation
• in the following text I’ll try to give full explanation of my experience

The problem with IG inks that I found using Diamine Registrars and R&K Scabiosa is in how they interact with porous unpolished surfaces and capilares of the ebonite feeds and collars of P400 1950-1965 series pens. They tend to deposit residue (probably some iron oxide) which tends to narrow the capilares and cement the nib unit to the grip section unless cleaned regularly and decently. The nib removal tool (purchased or home built) is of course welcome. 🙂

 

The second problem is that this residue also tends to accumulate on the edges where polymer piston gasket rings touch the barrel bore increasing the friction to eventually make them stick together or even create a rough gasket surface making ink leak beyond piston. IG inks are not self-cleaning.

 

I have no problem with vintage pen instructions stating that cleaning every three months is enough. I’ve been using 400NNs with all kind of ink for 30+ years as well and remember times when such pens could easily get repair at a stationery shop. 

 

Here is a picture of a 400NN nib unit that I’ve cleaned upon complete rinsing after just one round of Registrars:

 

Please, don’t let me be misunderstood. I think IG inks are great inks. They just don’t fit into the same bag as self-cleaning inks and the advantage they offer is preferredly met with a little more resposibility. Further on, the times have changed, the vintage pens are what they are and mostly require a professional repair shop if something goes wrong. Several times I had to give my 400NNs for professional cleaning in spite of having written daily and followed those factory 3-month instructions strictly. Eventually I decided to “upgrade” my maintenence rules to a more careful and “educated” level. That’s not bad, but that’s it.

 

I don’t write this with an aim of proliferating guesses of “what most folks” do or don’t, neither discouraging anyone, nor “trolling” against IG inks.

🙂

I can speak only for myself and I try do it with deep respect to everybody here on this forum and sincere wish to be heplful.

 

Thanks for reading this.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Good info, I've not noticed that problem, but will look for it in the future.

2 hours ago, stoen said:

please, don’t mind my straightforward answering:

Not at all, you have many more years experience, I've only been using IG inks for the last 7-8. The '50's MB and Pelikan instruction sheet for about that long.

I also used a variety of piston pens, some don't  have nibs that remove, others like Geha, are dammed near impossible to reach the edge of the gasket....very hard to get silicon grease on the barrel.  Luckily I don't have any problems with them.....in I'm not going to yank them apart just in case.

Do you find full cleaning, after just one use of IG inks to be excessive or not? Which I think is a bit of paranoia.

Do you think yanking a pen apart often, should be done? What then is often.

I don't......in sooner or later that takes wear too far, ruining the pen.

 

 

2 hours ago, stoen said:

when such pens could easily get repair at a stationery shop

Ah, the days of The Corner Pen Shoppe, with the well trained personnel of yesteryear.

My 125 or so year old B&M, no longer has such service.

[stoen]

3 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Do you find full cleaning, after just one use of IG inks to be excessive or not? Which I think is a bit of paranoia.

Do you think yanking a pen apart often, should be done? What then is often.

Thanks for your comment. I’ll try to stick to facts, not opinions or feelings.

• A 400 (N/NN) has a generous ink capacity, 2+ ml, approximately.
• A well tuned EF nib spends very little ink, so one refill may last for as long as few weeks.
• When practical, I try to rinse such a pen with water (fill and empty), before next IG inking - every few weeks. This has proven helpful and not really over the top. I wouldn’t do it if I could get away without doing it.
• If using IG inks I normally unscrew and soak the nib unit and clean the barrel once in five or six months. I have no idea if it is considered often or not. It has just proven good to my EF 400NN.

I don’t think what should be done, I’m just trying to communicate what I’m doing in such a situation, hoping my experience might help someone. I find the importance of treating vintage fountain pens with a bit of responsibility should be neither neglected nor mistyfied.

[mizgeorge]

I don't generally use IG inks in my flock, but if I were to, I'd be flushing them pretty regularly, especially the few that have steel nibs.

 

For the OP, have you considered going for a more colour matched ink for the pen? Diamine golden brown looks fabulous in a tortie.

[carola]

To me, for a Pelikan 400 NN tortoise-striped the very best match is Pelikan 4001 ink in Brilliant Brown. The dry ink matches the wet pen and the colour compliments the stripes nicely.

[Firecrest]

Much to think about and weigh up.  I like the idea of a brown ink as I get very fixated on blues and this would be a change.  At the same time I am intrigued by the qualities of ig inks though I might use one first in a less treasured pen just to try it out.  As ever, an adventure...

 

And thanks so much for all your comments. 

[Firecrest]

Ig inks for the future...Brilliant Brown has captured my imagination so a bottle now lies in my ink drawer...waiting for the 400nn to arrive.

Thanks again!

[Bo Bo Olson]

4001 is a reddish brown, but as mentioned dry, in semi-flex writes wet.

[Firecrest]

Thanks.  In my 140 ef the flow is very generous but I have been using Kon Peki which I think is wet.  I hope that this Pelikan ink is a little drier but the 140 remains a favourite pen nonetheless.  Think I might put some Topaz in next time...

[stoen]

On 2/20/2021 at 9:03 PM, Firecrest said:

Brilliant Brown has captured my imagination so a bottle now lies in my ink drawer...

Brillant brown is also among my favorites. I have it in my oldest pen: a Pelikan 100 of 1931... nib is F, moderately flex. Beautiful shading and width nuances!

🙂