ink capacity of Sailor King of Pen and converter.

[markh]

The Sailor converter and the generous feed of the KOP combine to not allow a lot of writing before a refill needed. Not a new problem, I've read postings on FPN and other places.

 

Just checking around to see latest and best ideas. So far...

- Use a converter, filled with a syringe. While I haven't measured a visual approximation would seem that the cart has about 50-100% more than the converter. Can be a little messy.

- I saw someone who cut two carts and joined with a sack, glued with shellac. I think if I tried this there would be a lot of ink where it doesn't belong.

- I saw on EBAY a 3D printed large sort of cartridge, to be filled by syringe. Not shipped to US, so haven't tried.

- I have tried filling my KOP upside down with a Visconti inkpot (and didn't make a mess .) Jury is still out as to how much, if any this increases effective capacity.

 

So... any new/better ideas??

 

thx,

 

[zaddick]

I can't recall the exact numbers now, but the converter is like 0.5 ml and the cart is about 1 ml. The regular cart refilled is about the best "factory" bet. Or you can have a custom pen maker redo the KOP with a better capacity filling system. 

[markh]

Wow - that's almost a re-architecting of the pen. Who did that?

 

.

[zaddick]

Shawn Newton. The material is celluloid although it looks black in most pics. 

[arcfide]

I've been playing around with a B nib KOP recently, as my latest experiment after my experiences with Pilot and Platinum pens. I started with a converter and like you point out, it goes through ink fast. I actually kind of like this, as the ritual of re-inking the pen works well with my flow. With my Platinum Music nib, this wasn't a problem, as I found that the filling of the Platinum pen from Platinum's inkwell bottles and their converter all worked well. I did need to make sure that I disassembled and cleaned the converter along with the monthly washing of that pen, though, or the converter would get stiff. 

 

My experience with the Sailor pen was a little different. The converter was a little stiff from the onset and I didn't find that it got much better. However, I did pick up the Sailor maintenance kit, and much to my surprise, it is surprisingly well designed and, IMO, superior to the Platinum kit. 

 

Included in the kit is a very easy to use syringe with a big opening that allows for fast ink flow, as well as a blunt tip needle and what appears to be a slightly reinforced empty cartridge specifically for refilling your pen. The literature specifically makes mention of the higher ink capacity of doing things this way rather than using a converter. This is the first time that I have seen a pen manufacturer actually supply a kit specifically designed to "refill cartridges" intentionally, as well as including instructions and the like. Moreover, the empty cartridge included in the kit has what appear to be reinforced sidewalls and a stronger rear plug. It also has a marking at the top of the cartridge to indicate the max fill line, to help you ensure that you don't overfill the cartridge. 

 

I'm currently testing this out, and overall, it is working really well, and I think it is *less* mess for me than using a converter and slurping ink directly from the bottle. I might still go back to using a converter, but right now, things are working out well with refilling the cartridges. The less mess benefit comes primarily from the fact that I don't have to wipe the nib on this system, and I only need to wipe the needle point of the syringe and flush the syringe out, which is much less mess to do than wiping the nib of the fountain pen, IME. It also reduces the chances of getting lint or fibers into the nib when cleaning the nib, which is something that has happened to me. 

 

Of course, if you butter finger it and tip over a filled cartridge...well....

 

The maintenance kit also includes a cartridge tube designed to attach to the syringe to flush out the pent, and it is, bar none, the best system I have seen for flushing out the feed/section. The syringe they use allows a lot of water through, and I don't find there to be the same slow water flow problems as I have found with a bulb syringe, which doesn't really work well on the KOP I have anyways. It's also a little more efficient and fast than the Platinum designed bulb filler as well. 

 

Overall, I have to give Sailor kudos on the design of this little kit as being very well put together. 

[peroride]

2 hours ago, zaddick said:

Shawn Newton. The material is celluloid although it looks black in most pics. 

🤤 Thank you for sharing @zaddickthat is so lust worthy. I'm on the 3 yr list for a SN syringe filler but I may have to settle for @arcfide glowing review of Sailor Maintenance Kit during the wait. Thank you both for great capacity ideas and @markh for the thread!

[arcfide]

I was only speculating before, based on what I could see from the Sailor pen maintenance kit, but I found this page:

 

https://sailor.co.jp/topics/supportkit/

 

And from that page, translated:

 

Quote

A cartridge tube for Sailor Pen that can be used repeatedly. Made of a material that is more durable than our regular cartridge inks, it can withstand repeated use. You can use your favorite bottle ink as a cartridge type, and you can enjoy bottle ink even with a mini-sized fountain pen that cannot use a converter. In addition, it is possible to fill about 1.5 times as much ink as the converter (compared to our company). It is convenient to use with the separately sold fountain pen support kit.

 

Apparently Sailor also sells empty reusable cartridges, and they *are* in fact designed to be more durable than your regular cartridges. 

[markh]

14 hours ago, arcfide said:

I was only speculating before, based on what I could see from the Sailor pen maintenance kit, but I found this page:

 

https://sailor.co.jp/topics/supportkit/

 

And from that page, translated:

 

 

Apparently Sailor also sells empty reusable cartridges, and they *are* in fact designed to be more durable than your regular cartridges. 

 

A poor substitute for a better answer. Design a converter like the Pilot CON-70.

1cm longer, about the same thickness. Has double the ink capacity.

 

It doesn't need to fit in every Sailor pen, just like the CON-70 doesn't fit in every Pilot pen. But for larger pens (like the KOP) it would be a much better solution than the hack of refilling cartridges with a syringe or pipette.

If this is beyond Sailors engineering capability, maybe they could hire Pilot to design and manufacture for them. The Sailor converter is not a sufficient solution for their large and expensive pens.

 

.

[A Smug Dill]

7 minutes ago, markh said:

A poor substitute for a better answer. Design a converter like the Pilot CON-70. 1cm longer, about the same thickness. Has double the ink capacity.

 

So design it and get it made, if you have the need and you already have the answer conceptually.

 

7 minutes ago, markh said:

If this is beyond Sailors engineering capability,

 

Perhaps the company's management does not think that is either required or profitable to produce and sell in the markets in which it operates?

 

You can always boycott Sailor's “large and expensive pens” if you don't agree with the sum of what is on offer.

[samasry]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:21 PM, markh said:

 

A poor substitute for a better answer. Design a converter like the Pilot CON-70.

1cm longer, about the same thickness. Has double the ink capacity.

 

It doesn't need to fit in every Sailor pen, just like the CON-70 doesn't fit in every Pilot pen. But for larger pens (like the KOP) it would be a much better solution than the hack of refilling cartridges with a syringe or pipette.

If this is beyond Sailors engineering capability, maybe they could hire Pilot to design and manufacture for them. The Sailor converter is not a sufficient solution for their large and expensive pens.

 

.

I heard they did KOP Realo once. Having that as a standard offering would be great. 

However, since making a larger converter is easier and they still have not done so, I am not holding my breath.

Sailor has been releasing pens with new plastic colors and charging double the price of the original black model of  the 1911L or KOP. They seem to be stuck in that gear for few years now.

[A Smug Dill]

31 minutes ago, salmasry said:

I heard they did KOP Realo once. Having that as a standard offering would be great. 

 

And then some people are just going to complain that, having paid a premium for the Realo version with the built-in piston-filler mechanism that cost more to produce (and increases the pen's resale value), the ink capacity is barely higher than that of a Sailor ink cartridge, blah blah.

[samasry]

42 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

And then some people are just going to complain that, having paid a premium for the Realo version with the built-in piston-filler mechanism that cost more to produce (and increases the pen's resale value), the ink capacity is barely higher than that of a Sailor ink cartridge, blah blah.

 

Probably the management at Sailor are using frail logic similar  to this. With this kind of thinking, no  wonder they are in the red. 

[markh]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:28 PM, A Smug Dill said:

You can always boycott Sailor's “large and expensive pens” if you don't agree with the sum of what is on offer.

 

Yes - that's certainly one possibility. Just accept what is.

 

OTOH - as a purchaser of more than a few Sailor pens, and several of their high end urushi KOP offerings, and probably more in the future, perhaps I could suggest a better path for them. Not much chance of success, but worth trying.

 

.

[A Smug Dill]

48 minutes ago, markh said:

perhaps I could suggest a better path for them. Not much chance of success, but worth trying.

 

If you can suggest and substantiate it to Sailor as a sentiment shared by — better still, originated by — customers in the Japanese domestic market (with or without the use case being specifically to write in Japanese), then you'll have a better chance of success, I think.

 

I certainly believe Salior is capable of taking and acting on product suggestions, and design and put new converters on the market. After all, someone (not me, and I don't know who) managed to convince Sailor to make a converter to suit the Sailor Professional Gear Slim Mini pens.

[arcfide]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:21 PM, markh said:

A poor substitute for a better answer. Design a converter like the Pilot CON-70.

1cm longer, about the same thickness. Has double the ink capacity.

 

It doesn't need to fit in every Sailor pen, just like the CON-70 doesn't fit in every Pilot pen. But for larger pens (like the KOP) it would be a much better solution than the hack of refilling cartridges with a syringe or pipette.

If this is beyond Sailors engineering capability, maybe they could hire Pilot to design and manufacture for them. The Sailor converter is not a sufficient solution for their large and expensive pens.

 

19 hours ago, salmasry said:

I heard they did KOP Realo once. Having that as a standard offering would be great. 

However, since making a larger converter is easier and they still have not done so, I am not holding my breath.

Sailor has been releasing pens with new plastic colors and charging double the price of the original black model of  the 1911L or KOP. They seem to be stuck in that gear for few years now.

 

While I agree that from a product diversity standpoint it would be neat to have a Realo or other integrated filling system design in the KOP format as a standard offering, I don't think this is necessarily due to any malicious practice on Sailors part, or that they aren't paying attention to the markets. 

 

One has to really question just how important alternative filler systems are in the grand scheme of pens. Maybe it is true that piston fillers and other fillers are important and that they will help to reignite the passion for fountain pens or whatever. However, that is not at all clear. The reality is, I think, that most people in most markets vastly prefer C/C systems for 1) convenience, 2) ease of maintenance, 3) flexibility, and 4) cost. C/C systems get a bad rap because somehow people think they are less premium of the like. But from a purely technical standpoint, it's very hard to argue that they aren't the better system in general. They are more reliable, easier to use, easier to keep clean, more flexible, and frankly, more practically suited to the vast majority of most users needs. I would even go so far as to argue that if you took the emotional element out of things for users who use piston systems predominantly, even there, most users would be objectively equally well-served with a C/C system, and that such systems are, on the whole, time savers and equally economical or more economical. They're probably more efficient for most people. 

 

For most users, cartridges are just the preferred method, at least as far as I can tell. For users who love to work with lots of ink, I suspect that many of them prefer to try many inks, rather than stick with a single ink for a long time, and in that case, a smaller capacity converter is not a problem, and the C/C system makes it easier to more reliably try out many different inks quickly with a single pen. In the U.S., where fountain pens are almost always a luxury or specialist item, bottled ink seems to get a lot of attention, but my impression in Europe and Asia is that there are a wider range of users who are predominantly cartridge focused. And even back in the day when my relatives were all using fountain pens, cartridges were always the preferred method, even when they did a lot of writing with a single ink. 

 

Implementing a larger converter is not necessarily easier. I don't know if Pilot has any patents on their converter, but the engineering involved is not trivial, and the designs would cost plenty of money, as would the initial molds and the like. It's not clear that this would be easier than a Realo KOP as a standard offering. 

 

Furthermore, when examined objectively, piston fillers are not more convenient (they take more time to keep maintained and require more long term maintenance to keep the system running, and they are more or equally wasteful of ink compared to a C/C system) and they do not fundamentally have significantly higher capacities than an ink cartridge. It's a bit of a false dichotomy to compare piston fillers against converters. 

 

In this sense, I think piston fillers, from an objective and technical standpoint, cannot be said to be superior to C/C systems. I think there is a reason C/C systems fundamentally came to dominate the marketplace, and it's not because they are cheaper. It is because they are, on the whole, cheaper *and* at least as good, possibly better. For the majority of users, C/C systems are probably better. I would go so far as to personally speculate that for a large majority of users, objectively, the C/C system is probably technically superior. Of course, that doesn't account for the very relevant emotional elements, and those matter a lot in a luxury good like higher end fountain pens. That's fair, but not something I'm talking about here. 

 

Now, vacuum filling systems like on the Pilot 823 *are* capable of holding significantly more ink than your typical C/C system, as are eyedropper style pens. But these are not popular filling systems on the whole, I speculate because most people don't actually need that capacity relative to their other desires, and that these systems aren't as convenient.

 

Furthermore, while one could argue that maybe syringe filling cartridges might be a "hack" in the case of Platinum pens, I don't think you can say the same for Sailor pens, given that they not only provide a kit for doing so, but that they provide specially designed cartridges specifically for this purpose as a separate SKU in their catalog. It's hard to call something a hack when it's part of the official product offering of the company and promoted in their literature. 

 

Pilot doesn't have any official means of refilling cartridges, but they do offer the CON-70 as an alternative. This gives you the same capacity as a cartridge or piston filler, roughly, but the cost of this is that you cannot use this system in all of their pens, and people often complain about the usability of the CON-70 and cleaning it out. I don't happen to think that these are particularly harder than a piston filler, and IME, it's actually easier to flush a pen using a CON-70 than it is with a twist-piston system, converter or built-in. Nonetheless, Sailor's system of a blunt syringe, flushing tube, and reinforced empty cartridges has the advantage of being much easier to clean and use than either the twist-piston or the CON-70, as well as working in all of their pens that can take the standard Sailor cartridge size, *and* gives you high capacity. I'm not convinced that this system is obviously inherently inferior. In practice I'd say it's more convenient and less messy for me, personally. I also make more of a mess with a CON-70 or piston filler than I do with a syringe, as the syringe gives me significantly more control and precision, and there is less excess ink to wipe up.

 

And of course, you have to consider the whole system of bottled ink, pen, and filling system. The Sailor system has the advantage that all bottles of ink will be equally accessible and usable, since the blunt syringe will work efficiently with any bottle, whereas the CON-70 and twist-piston systems that rely on feed saturation in order to work are much less reliable and usable when the bottles get empty, and even the filling assistants that are in some bottles, such as little ink wells and the like, don't work well enough to get the last MLs of ink. The CON-70 in particular can be difficult to use with sufficient dexterity at very low ink levels.

 

In summary, it is not clear to me that Sailor is ignoring this problem, nor that they have come up with a technically inferior solution. They provide a means of achieving higher capacity filling that works across the entire lineup of their C/C pens, any bottled ink down to the last drop, while also making it easy to utilize cartridges for convenience, and to clean the pen rapidly and efficiently. Pilot's system is fairly good, but I would argue less efficient and general than Sailor's (it doesn't get all ink and doesn't work for their smaller pens). Classic twist piston systems like Montblanc and Pelikan are perhaps more romantic (they are for me at least), but they are definitely more time consuming and less efficient for me. For the case where you truly just want to maximize your ink capacity and usability, then eyedroppers seem to be the easy answer, even more than the vacuum filling systems. Pilot offers extremely enticing luxury eyedropper pens, but I only have experience with the smaller and less premium Platinum Prefounte or Preppy options, which I have to admit, have been extremely usable and efficient, easy to clean, and convenient. 

 

When viewed across the landscape, it seems to me that Sailor isn't obviously deficient here, and seems at least technically competitive. They may arrive at the end result a little differently than Pilot or some of the other makers, but they still do seem to get there. The only thing that could be reasonably leveled against all three of the big 3 Japanese makers is that they lack that distinct romance that comes with a wide range of novel filling systems. This doesn't detract from their technical capacity to serve in the same roles (they don't really lack for capacity in this respect), but it does affect the overall emotional impact of their pens. I would personally argue that they make up for this in terms of the sheer enjoyment that can be had for all manner of discerning tastes in nibs, with all three offering excellent nibs to suit a wide variety of needs. 

 

 

[arcfide]

Just to include some other data. Comparing the ink capacity (including feed, I presume) between the Realo and the standard cartridge fill method, from Goulet Pens, I get 1.19ml for the C/C system and 1.17ml for the Realo. 

[A Smug Dill]

33 minutes ago, arcfide said:

Comparing the ink capacity (including feed, I presume) between the Realo and the standard cartridge fill method, from Goulet Pens, I get 1.19ml for the C/C system and 1.17ml for the Realo.

 

Officially,

 

48 minutes ago, arcfide said:

I would even go so far as to argue that if you took the emotional element out of things for users who use piston systems predominantly, even there, most users would be objectively equally well-served with a C/C system,

 

One's positive regard and personal preference for something neither require (nor imply) that it has technical merit and/or objective advantage, nor oblige other parties to show support for the sentiment and/or find some way to validate the individual's position. If people don't want to use products and methods they don't enjoy using, or about which they have specific reservations or grievances, I think others ought to respectfully leave them to wallow in their discontent and/or let them pare away their own options and shrink the solution space.

 

Sailor has not published either the capacity of its ink cartridges as containers, or the volume of ink supplied in factory-filled cartridges, as far as I'm aware. However, the weight of each sealed ink cartridge is nominally 1.5g, whereas the weight of each refillable empty cartridge (that Sailor sells in sets as retail products) is 0.7g. Without testing whether the empty refillable cartridge product uses heavier material or have thicker walls than the sealed cartridges, I still think it's safe to assume there is ≥0.8g of ink in each factory-filled cartridge (and that figure is the same for Sailor's pigment and dye ink cartridges), and so approximately 0.8ml of ink by volume. For users who go through ink at a relatively rapid rate, it simply makes no sense to argue it is more convenient to fill a Realo from a bottle for a 0.2–0.3ml advantage in ink capacity but still run the risk of running out of ink in the middle of a writing task, when the mitigation strategy of having an ink bottle at hand for refilling when required is far less portable and more time-consuming than carrying one or two spare ink cartridges.

 

That, of course, is all premised on the customer stays inside Sailor's realm of products — which now includes ink cartridges in each of the twenty Shikiori ink colours, as well as the Kiwaguro, Souboku and Seiboku pigment inks, and of course the basic (formerly Jentle) black, blue-black, blue and red inks — and only comparing Sailor's ink converters, cartridges and piston-filled pen models, not versus Waterman's cartridges or Conid pen models; and exactly what Sailor would want.

[arcfide]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

One's positive regard and personal preference for something neither require (nor imply) that it has technical merit and/or objective advantage, nor oblige other parties to show support for the sentiment and/or find some way to validate the individual's position. If people don't want to use products and methods they don't enjoy using, or about which they have specific reservations or grievances, I think others ought to respectfully leave them to wallow in their discontent and/or let them pare away their own options and shrink the solution space.

 

While I regularly participate in the wallowing in my own discontent of certain options or solutions spaces because of my own emotional preferences (the biggest one being that I often stick to using the same brand of ink for a given brand of pen, which greatly limits total solution space), when others are researching for thoughts and ideas regarding a space with which they are unfamiliar, they will regularly be influenced by discontent publicly expressed, and even more so any malcontent. This can perpetuate concepts and ideas that aren't accurate. Two of the more common myths I see are the claims of technical/objective superiority of piston fillers and a belief that many fountain pen companies are willfully and, at least by implication of negligence, maliciously shafting customers that desire their brand or products, or, if not maliciously, at least through sheer stupidity. When such myths are perpetuated for long enough, they tend to become de facto reality and this can negatively affect the markets in unfortunate ways. I also find, in general, that companies are more likely to respond well to positive suggestions for innovation and change rather than baseless complaints that imply the company is stupid. 

 

I think it would be really neat to see a large number of innovative filling mechanisms that increase capacity and maintain ease of cleaning come out of the Japanese makers. The Chinese markets might already be helping to spur the Japanese to do something in that regard, I don't know, but statements that lack empathy might sometimes drown out the opportunities here, as will justifications for features that don't accurately represent the real reason why people want a feature. 

[samasry]

12 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

 

While I agree that from a product diversity standpoint it would be neat to have a Realo or other integrated filling system design in the KOP format as a standard offering, I don't think this is necessarily due to any malicious practice on Sailors part, or that they aren't paying attention to the markets. 

 

One has to really question just how important alternative filler systems are in the grand scheme of pens. Maybe it is true that piston fillers and other fillers are important and that they will help to reignite the passion for fountain pens or whatever. However, that is not at all clear. The reality is, I think, that most people in most markets vastly prefer C/C systems for 1) convenience, 2) ease of maintenance, 3) flexibility, and 4) cost. C/C systems get a bad rap because somehow people think they are less premium of the like. But from a purely technical standpoint, it's very hard to argue that they aren't the better system in general. They are more reliable, easier to use, easier to keep clean, more flexible, and frankly, more practically suited to the vast majority of most users needs. I would even go so far as to argue that if you took the emotional element out of things for users who use piston systems predominantly, even there, most users would be objectively equally well-served with a C/C system, and that such systems are, on the whole, time savers and equally economical or more economical. They're probably more efficient for most people. 

 

For most users, cartridges are just the preferred method, at least as far as I can tell. For users who love to work with lots of ink, I suspect that many of them prefer to try many inks, rather than stick with a single ink for a long time, and in that case, a smaller capacity converter is not a problem, and the C/C system makes it easier to more reliably try out many different inks quickly with a single pen. In the U.S., where fountain pens are almost always a luxury or specialist item, bottled ink seems to get a lot of attention, but my impression in Europe and Asia is that there are a wider range of users who are predominantly cartridge focused. And even back in the day when my relatives were all using fountain pens, cartridges were always the preferred method, even when they did a lot of writing with a single ink. 

 

Implementing a larger converter is not necessarily easier. I don't know if Pilot has any patents on their converter, but the engineering involved is not trivial, and the designs would cost plenty of money, as would the initial molds and the like. It's not clear that this would be easier than a Realo KOP as a standard offering. 

 

Furthermore, when examined objectively, piston fillers are not more convenient (they take more time to keep maintained and require more long term maintenance to keep the system running, and they are more or equally wasteful of ink compared to a C/C system) and they do not fundamentally have significantly higher capacities than an ink cartridge. It's a bit of a false dichotomy to compare piston fillers against converters. 

 

In this sense, I think piston fillers, from an objective and technical standpoint, cannot be said to be superior to C/C systems. I think there is a reason C/C systems fundamentally came to dominate the marketplace, and it's not because they are cheaper. It is because they are, on the whole, cheaper *and* at least as good, possibly better. For the majority of users, C/C systems are probably better. I would go so far as to personally speculate that for a large majority of users, objectively, the C/C system is probably technically superior. Of course, that doesn't account for the very relevant emotional elements, and those matter a lot in a luxury good like higher end fountain pens. That's fair, but not something I'm talking about here. 

 

Now, vacuum filling systems like on the Pilot 823 *are* capable of holding significantly more ink than your typical C/C system, as are eyedropper style pens. But these are not popular filling systems on the whole, I speculate because most people don't actually need that capacity relative to their other desires, and that these systems aren't as convenient.

 

Furthermore, while one could argue that maybe syringe filling cartridges might be a "hack" in the case of Platinum pens, I don't think you can say the same for Sailor pens, given that they not only provide a kit for doing so, but that they provide specially designed cartridges specifically for this purpose as a separate SKU in their catalog. It's hard to call something a hack when it's part of the official product offering of the company and promoted in their literature. 

 

Pilot doesn't have any official means of refilling cartridges, but they do offer the CON-70 as an alternative. This gives you the same capacity as a cartridge or piston filler, roughly, but the cost of this is that you cannot use this system in all of their pens, and people often complain about the usability of the CON-70 and cleaning it out. I don't happen to think that these are particularly harder than a piston filler, and IME, it's actually easier to flush a pen using a CON-70 than it is with a twist-piston system, converter or built-in. Nonetheless, Sailor's system of a blunt syringe, flushing tube, and reinforced empty cartridges has the advantage of being much easier to clean and use than either the twist-piston or the CON-70, as well as working in all of their pens that can take the standard Sailor cartridge size, *and* gives you high capacity. I'm not convinced that this system is obviously inherently inferior. In practice I'd say it's more convenient and less messy for me, personally. I also make more of a mess with a CON-70 or piston filler than I do with a syringe, as the syringe gives me significantly more control and precision, and there is less excess ink to wipe up.

 

And of course, you have to consider the whole system of bottled ink, pen, and filling system. The Sailor system has the advantage that all bottles of ink will be equally accessible and usable, since the blunt syringe will work efficiently with any bottle, whereas the CON-70 and twist-piston systems that rely on feed saturation in order to work are much less reliable and usable when the bottles get empty, and even the filling assistants that are in some bottles, such as little ink wells and the like, don't work well enough to get the last MLs of ink. The CON-70 in particular can be difficult to use with sufficient dexterity at very low ink levels.

 

In summary, it is not clear to me that Sailor is ignoring this problem, nor that they have come up with a technically inferior solution. They provide a means of achieving higher capacity filling that works across the entire lineup of their C/C pens, any bottled ink down to the last drop, while also making it easy to utilize cartridges for convenience, and to clean the pen rapidly and efficiently. Pilot's system is fairly good, but I would argue less efficient and general than Sailor's (it doesn't get all ink and doesn't work for their smaller pens). Classic twist piston systems like Montblanc and Pelikan are perhaps more romantic (they are for me at least), but they are definitely more time consuming and less efficient for me. For the case where you truly just want to maximize your ink capacity and usability, then eyedroppers seem to be the easy answer, even more than the vacuum filling systems. Pilot offers extremely enticing luxury eyedropper pens, but I only have experience with the smaller and less premium Platinum Prefounte or Preppy options, which I have to admit, have been extremely usable and efficient, easy to clean, and convenient. 

 

When viewed across the landscape, it seems to me that Sailor isn't obviously deficient here, and seems at least technically competitive. They may arrive at the end result a little differently than Pilot or some of the other makers, but they still do seem to get there. The only thing that could be reasonably leveled against all three of the big 3 Japanese makers is that they lack that distinct romance that comes with a wide range of novel filling systems. This doesn't detract from their technical capacity to serve in the same roles (they don't really lack for capacity in this respect), but it does affect the overall emotional impact of their pens. I would personally argue that they make up for this in terms of the sheer enjoyment that can be had for all manner of discerning tastes in nibs, with all three offering excellent nibs to suit a wide variety of needs. 

 

 

 

You have brought up some interesting points. I am not sure I can or should attempt to cover it all. However, I will try to stick  to the original issue.

 

- I did not really put forth any opinion vis a vis the piston vs c/c issue. I merely mentioned piston as a solution to  achieving  larger ink capacity.  For what it is worth, I agree that maintaining a  c/c is much easier, and replacing it is much cheaper than a piston. So I will not venture into this further, as we seem to mostly agree.

 

- Regarding your idea that it is more difficult for Sailor to make a larger capacity converter than to make a piston filler. I would  not venture into this debate as well. Let us just agree to disagree. I think  Perhaps you can debate this with someone with more knowledge about this issue than I do.

 

- That leaves us with  the proposal   to use a syringe to fill the cartridge. This idea is sort of common knowledge in the FPN community.  Looking at the kit that you have linked, the only new thing is that the cartridge is designed for  multi-use, which is nice. The 3mm syringe is not really a Sailor  invention and the little tube for nib flushing is attempting to solve  a problem that I do not think exists. I am sure people were able to flush the KOP  before this tube (kop is used for example due to the holes that makes it harder to flush)

 

- Finally,  comparing this kit from sailor, which is basically a cartridge with thicker walls, to the Con-70  is  really apples to oranges kind of comparison, so I do not see a need  for me to address it.

 

I am glad you are happy with this kit from Sailor though.

[mke]

> I certainly believe Salior is capable of taking and acting on product suggestions

 

Sorry, but this is a major Japanese problem. They cannot. Either they buy expertise from outside, than they accept advise from the outside, or they think "not invented by us" and do not consider it.

 

Regarding the KoP piston filler, I have heard that they promised to Montblanc not to compete (I was told, MB threatened to sue). If this is a story or true, I don't know.

 

If you want to have a Japanese pen with large ink capacity, go for a Namiki Emperor.