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ink capacity of Sailor King of Pen and converter.


markh

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3 hours ago, maclink said:

 

 

Luckily, I haven't had pens run dry because of this issue and wonder why I'm so lucky.  Only two of my c/c pens have agitators, i.e., Pilot and MontBlanc.  The MontBlanc uses a steel spring.  Agitators aren't all that common, making me think that it's not that I'm lucky, but some here are unlucky.  My Sailors have been working well.  I've never expelled two drops of ink after filling my converters.  I've always thought two drops of ink is a LOT of ink to expel from a converter. :o  My routine these days is not to wipe the section and nib after a fill, but instead to run them under the tap, then wipe them off and wick out ink on a tissue until it appears saturated again.  Some ink is expelled, but I doubt that it's 2 drops.

 

Is it the choice of ink that causes what would be an irritating situation?  My OCD side would go bonkers with a pen full of ink running dry.  :wacko: Maintenance routines?  Odd really.

 

The agitator issue, is related only to the  new hard-wall cartridge from Sailor.

The same KOP works pretty well with the converter for the same ink. I do not feel a need for an agitator when using the converter.

 

Ink choice could be a factor. The one with which  I have seen this problem many times is Monteverde Horizon blue.    To a lesser  extent with Pilot blue black and couple of others.

 

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4 hours ago, arcfide said:

The refillable cartridges are an improvement over the previous options because they solve the issue that the previous cartridges were too soft, and therefore not very durable, meaning that they would lose their seal at the mouth of the cartridge more quickly and potentially leak everywhere. The refillable cartridges are there to provide increased capacity over the converter while also being more durable so that they can be re-used more often. The cost for that would be that you can't squeeze the cartridges to prime the feed. In either case, there shouldn't be any flow issues with the pen after the feed is saturated, regardless of how the feed gets ink into it, whether by dipping or some other mechanism. 

 

If we need to prime the feed by dipping it into the ink bottle, then the converter usage model becomes more attractive than this cartridge usage  model.

 

As you have indicated before, part of the appeal of this cartridge was not to deal with dipping the pen in ink.You pay for that by using a syringe. If you need to use a syringe and then dip the nib in ink, then using  the converter  becomes  easier, albeit more frequent.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, salmasry said:

You pay for that by using a syringe.

 

Or simply by sticking to buying and using Sailor ink cartridges, which now come in the basic (formerly marketed as Jentle) dye ink colours, the 20 colours in the Shikiori line of inks, and the Seiboku, Souboku and Kiwaguro pigment inks, in your Sailor pens. You still have plenty of choice in inks, but will be trading off freedom to use other brands of ink, for convenience (of not having to ‘pay’ by syringe-filling an empty cartridge) if you take that path.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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8 hours ago, salmasry said:

If we need to prime the feed by dipping it into the ink bottle, then the converter usage model becomes more attractive than this cartridge usage  model.

 

As you have indicated before, part of the appeal of this cartridge was not to deal with dipping the pen in ink.You pay for that by using a syringe. If you need to use a syringe and then dip the nib in ink, then using  the converter  becomes  easier, albeit more frequent.  

 

 

I generally agree that having to prime the feed by dipping is less attractive. I also don't have to do that. With all the inks I've used in my Sailor KOP, I've never had to prime the feed, whether using cartridges, refillable cartridges via syringe, or the converter. They all worked fine without any priming throughout the entire fill of ink. That why I am inclined to think that something else is likely to be contributing to the problem than just the cartridges. Even though Sailor IIRC suggests that you *can* prime the feed to get ink flowing right away, simply letting the pen rest for a bit is sufficient for me to get ink flow out of my Sailor pens with cartridges. 

 

It's possible that you've just hit a peculiar tolerance stacking problem with your particular combination of pen hygiene, usage habits, ink choice, and converter/cartridge choice that doesn't work right for you, but at least for me, I've never even come close to reaching this situation. The closest I get to this is when I clean out a pen with water and then I need to dry out the nib or soak out the water before I get a full ink concentration feeding through the pen, but that's standard behavior for all fountain pens. 

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8 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Or simply by sticking to buying and using Sailor ink cartridges, which now come in the basic (formerly marketed as Jentle) dye ink colours, the 20 colours in the Shikiori line of inks, and the Seiboku, Souboku and Kiwaguro pigment inks, in your Sailor pens. You still have plenty of choice in inks, but will be trading off freedom to use other brands of ink, for convenience (of not having to ‘pay’ by syringe-filling an empty cartridge) if you take that path.

 

And among inks, Sailors inks that they offer in cartridges are without a doubt some of the best inks on the market, IMO. You're not giving up much there, since some of the best choices, IMO, for inks are in that line up. 

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11 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Or simply by sticking to buying and using Sailor ink cartridges, which now come in the basic (formerly marketed as Jentle) dye ink colours, the 20 colours in the Shikiori line of inks, and the Seiboku, Souboku and Kiwaguro pigment inks, in your Sailor pens. You still have plenty of choice in inks, but will be trading off freedom to use other brands of ink, for convenience (of not having to ‘pay’ by syringe-filling an empty cartridge) if you take that path.

 

Yes, this usage model has been there from the start.  

Just to be clear, I was comparing  using a converter, which in my case works great  with the only issue being, that it might be of less ink  capacity,  against the new cartridge that  improves capacity but adds extra steps. 

I was not that unhappy with the converter, I was  seeking a better solution and in my mind the new refillable  cartridge solution did not pass the threshold of being significantly/any better,  yet.  

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

 

It's possible that you've just hit a peculiar tolerance stacking problem with your particular combination of pen hygiene, usage habits, ink choice, and converter/cartridge choice that doesn't work right for you, but at least for me, I've never even come close to reaching this situation. The closest I get to this is when I clean out a pen with water and then I need to dry out the nib or soak out the water before I get a full ink concentration feeding through the pen, but that's standard behavior for all fountain pens. 

 

Yes, please note that I was referring to exactly that. The pen was just cleaned/flushed. ...etc,   before using the cartridge.   To me this is the correct use case for these cartridges. I can not assume that each time I  want to use  this cartridge  that the pen was using a converter with the same ink just before that.  This needs to start with a pen that was just cleaned. I will be trying the idea by ASD to get the flow going at the start.

 

Please note, the pen /ink  combo works amazingly well with the converter.  

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, salmasry said:

Yes, please note that I was referring to exactly that. The pen was just cleaned/flushed. ...etc,   before using the cartridge.   To me this is the correct use case for these cartridges. I can not assume that each time I  want to use  this cartridge  that the pen was using a converter with the same ink just before that.  This needs to start with a pen that was just cleaned. I will be trying the idea by ASD to get the flow going at the start.

 

Please note, the pen /ink  combo works amazingly well with the converter.  

 

Ah! So you're saying that you want a way to accelerate the time from a freshly cleaned pen to full ink concentration on the page, yes? My pens that I care about ink capacity will only really be cleaned once every month or 3 (realistically 1-2 as I can't bring myself to go 3 months without cleaning a pen), so this would only be relevant, at most, on the first of the month or something like that. Otherwise, for me, once every day or two days, I pop out the refillable cartridge, fill it back up with ink, and then pop it back into the pen and keep going. So the ration of pen "priming" point to refills is at most 1:30 or 1:15 at the most infrequent average refilling rate. In that relatively infrequent but regular occurrence, I just make sure the nib has been thoroughly cleaned and the excess water removed from the feed. From there, I do something more or less equivalent to ASD's technique of soaking on a paper towel to draw out the ink and get things at full concentration. I find it doesn't take long. If I don't have a paper towel handy, I always have a small scratch notebook handy that I can scribble in for a few lines and that gets things flowing as well. I've never needed more than one Apica CD-7 page's worth of scribbling to get things going, even if I'm lazy on the excess water. Otherwise, I will sometimes do the refill the night before to be ready for tomorrow, and that doesn't require much in the way of priming. 

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1 hour ago, arcfide said:

 

Ah! So you're saying that you want a way to accelerate the time from a freshly cleaned pen to full ink concentration on the page, yes? My pens that I care about ink capacity will only really be cleaned once every month or 3 (realistically 1-2 as I can't bring myself to go 3 months without cleaning a pen), so this would only be relevant, at most, on the first of the month or something like that. Otherwise, for me, once every day or two days, I pop out the refillable cartridge, fill it back up with ink, and then pop it back into the pen and keep going. So the ration of pen "priming" point to refills is at most 1:30 or 1:15 at the most infrequent average refilling rate. In that relatively infrequent but regular occurrence, I just make sure the nib has been thoroughly cleaned and the excess water removed from the feed. From there, I do something more or less equivalent to ASD's technique of soaking on a paper towel to draw out the ink and get things at full concentration. I find it doesn't take long. If I don't have a paper towel handy, I always have a small scratch notebook handy that I can scribble in for a few lines and that gets things flowing as well. I've never needed more than one Apica CD-7 page's worth of scribbling to get things going, even if I'm lazy on the excess water. Otherwise, I will sometimes do the refill the night before to be ready for tomorrow, and that doesn't require much in the way of priming. 

 

 

Thank you for bringing this  cartridge to our attention.

 

We have solved the  sealing, and zeroing in  on   a good  solution for the agitation and priming.

 

I think we are close to being in business regarding this new filling system.  

 

For lazy people like me.   We  can syringe a dozen of these once every one or two weeks and just pop em and use them.

 

For people who do not mind daily usage of the  syringe, they can keep them fresh instead of canned.  

 

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24 minutes ago, salmasry said:

 

 

Thank you for bringing this  cartridge to our attention.

 

We have solved the  sealing, and zeroing in  on   a good  solution for the agitation and priming.

 

I think we are close to being in business regarding this new filling system.  

 

For lazy people like me.   We  can syringe a dozen of these once every one or two weeks and just pop em and use them.

 

For people who do not mind daily usage of the  syringe, they can keep them fresh instead of canned.  

 

 

Perhaps of further interest, regarding priming, the ridges on the refillable cartridges extend into the inside of the cartridge, so I think that they are perhaps meant to increase the ink flow in the same way that Pilot seems to introduce ridges into some of their converters as well, to help with breaking up surface cohesion of inks inside the cylinder, if that's the right term for what goes on there.

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