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Montblanc Admiral Prima


psycherelics
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Well I recently obtained this batch, three Montblanc's & two of them in working order.
I'll be sending the Montblanc retractable safety fountain pen to be recorked.
The clipless 400 model piston pen is quite nice, but the Admiral Prima is really strange, it is an exact copy of the Reform Rekord 18 right down to the snake pocket clip & even has a Reform nib,

but very clearly marked on the barrel "Montblanc" and has the white star on the cap.

Has anyone ever heard of the Montblanc Admiral Prima  ? When was it made ? Was it made for Montblanc by Reform ??

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I'm not familiar specifically with the Montblanc Admiral Prima, but I suspect that it was probably made right after World War II. Montblanc's factory was devastated during the war. Production was resumed in Denmark after the war to tide the company over until its own facilities could be rebuilt, but it's reasonable to assume that the resumption did not happen overnight. It's likely that Montblanc, in order to get its hat back into the ring as soon as possible, jobbed Admiral Prima pens from Reform, with the Montblanc marking and logo added. (Admiral Prima was a Reform model name.) My guess is that your pen is relatively uncommon.

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52 minutes ago, Richard said:

I'm not familiar specifically with the Montblanc Admiral Prima, but I suspect that it was probably made right after World War II. Montblanc's factory was devastated during the war. Production was resumed in Denmark after the war to tide the company over until its own facilities could be rebuilt, but it's reasonable to assume that the resumption did not happen overnight. It's likely that Montblanc, in order to get its hat back into the ring as soon as possible, jobbed Admiral Prima pens from Reform, with the Montblanc marking and logo added. (Admiral Prima was a Reform model name.) My guess is that your pen is relatively uncommon.

Thank you for this information! I didn't know Reform made a model of the same name, I think it's like what you suggest, especially considering the "star" on the top of the cap has aged about the same as several other Montblanc's I own from that time period.

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Psycherelics, thanks for the email. You didn't mention the loose rod before. This is definitely a Reform pen, and it's a syringe-filler with a removable rod to allow greater ink capacity. I have one of the lesser Reform models, a Rekord 18, with the same filling system. I've attached photos of it to this reply. It came in a plain box.

 

It's possible that your Admiral Prima was actually made during the war, although I doubt it, as gold was on Germany's list of critical war resources during the war so that Germany could buy materials from neutral nations that insisted on payment in real gold instead of paper Reichsmarks. Only high-ranking members of the NSDAP would have had access to pens with gold nibs.

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"Acquiring more information about things that interest me is a good thing." !!

I totally agree attached are some photo's of my Reform collection 3 Reform Rekord 18's and
a Reform Luxor piston pen which I use frequently

Left to right Montblanc Admiral Prima, and three Reform Rekord 18's and the Reform Luxor piston pen is in the back ground
If you look close you can see the third Rekord even has a blind cap to go over the hole!

Please note each of the the rods are different from each other.

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I have two more Reform Rekords but they are just bits and pieces, but even those are interesting as one of them is over sized barrel when compared to the other three.

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To me, these are just the commonly known Montblanc fakes that you will see so often ... they do not have anything to do with Montblanc.

 

Counterfeiters just take whatever vintage pen they can get and "create" their own fake Montblanc pens, includung the star logo and the imprint.

 

Below, you will find some of their "creations" and also a report by Stefan Wallrafen (it's in German but simply use any translator such as deepl.com to translate it to your preferred language)

 

http://www.fountainpen.de/news/Newsletter3-fakes.pdf
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes02.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes03.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes04.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/berichtstefan.htm

__________________________________

 

www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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1 hour ago, fountainpende said:

To me, these are just the commonly known Montblanc fakes that you will see so often ... they do not have anything to do with Montblanc.

 

Counterfeiters just take whatever vintage pen they can get and "create" their own fake Montblanc pens, includung the star logo and the imprint.

 

Below, you will find some of their "creations" and also a report by Stefan Wallrafen (it's in German but simply use any translator such as deepl.com to translate it to your preferred language)

 

http://www.fountainpen.de/news/Newsletter3-fakes.pdf
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes02.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes03.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/vintagefakes04.htm
http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/berichtstefan.htm

"But the end of the descent is far from being reached. About 10 months ago, a copy sold as an "antique MontBlanc fountain pen" in Sofia appeared at the collectors' market in Hamburg: In addition to a beautifully made slide-on clip made of brass, which showed a raised Montblanc star (added later during casting) and a Montblanc painted on the cap head Stern also tried to have the inscription “Mont λ Blanc” stamped on the cap later, to transform a mediocre junk item from external production into a coveted collector's item. "

The key word here is "Mediocre" which is beyond a doubt NOT what this pen is, I tend to agree with Richard Binder

"It's likely that Montblanc, in order to get its hat back into the ring as soon as possible, jobbed Admiral Prima pens from Reform, with the Montblanc marking and logo added. (Admiral Prima was a Reform model name.) My guess is that your pen is relatively uncommon."

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You may agree with him .. but this still does not magically create a Montblanc ...

 

There are many sorces for these common vintage fake pens, e.g. Horst Max Schrage (THE expert on Montblanc pens), Stefan Wallrafen (another expert).

 

But is there any source for the story that Montblanc bought Admiral Prima pens from Reform? And most importantly, why should they do so? How would it help a manufacturer to sell the competitor's products? This story is far tooo strange and as noted not backed up by at least some source.

 

I do not know Richard Binder in person, but I suggest that it's far better to contact experts such as Horst Max Schrage (maxpens.de) or Stefan Wallrafen (http://collectiblestars.de/)

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www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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6 minutes ago, fountainpende said:

You may agree with him .. but this still does not magically create a Montblanc ...

 

You may agree with Stefan Wallrafen.. but that still does not prove this isn't a legitimate Montblanc

 

 

 

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ok. Whatever you like ... these are your pens and not mine. You may believe whatever you like.

 

However, if you are interested in information on such pens, it's a better idea to contact the experts mentioned above ...

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www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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31 minutes ago, fountainpende said:

ok. Whatever you like ... these are your pens and not mine. You may believe whatever you like.

 

However, if you are interested in information on such pens, it's a better idea to contact the experts mentioned above ...

As part of a sustained campaign of strategic bombing during world war two, the attack on Hamburg during the last week of July 1943, code named Operation Gomorrah, created one of the largest firestorms raised by the RAF and US Army air force in World War II, during this raid Montblanc's factory and most likely their warehouses and all stock was destroyed and they were totally incapable of producing a single pen or pen part, but still had many stores,boutiques, and other buyers wanting product. Now then Reform in Nieder-Ramstadt wasn't destroyed and was known for high quality pens and supplied parts and pens to several large manufacturers, including Geha, Herlitz, Rotring, A. T. Cross, Elysée, Dunhill, S. T. Dupont, Cartier, Caran d’Ache, and Christian Dior.
So it not hard to imagine that Montblanc (Who couldn't produce a single pen in nearly four full years 1943 until near 1947) would want to have something to put in their stores
I clearly admit that this is indeed a Reform pen of the highest quality, but was branded as a Montblanc, so that they were able to have something to sell between 1943 and 1945,
but unfortunately no war time records exist to prove or disprove this theory.

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Please do not invent some "magical stories" about companies that just wanted to have something in their stores.

 

First, Montblanc did not have own stores ... Montblanc Boutiques started in the 1990ties/early 2000. Second, I know that Montblanc was bombed ... and I also know that after the bombing, they have created some strange pens ... but they have always used their own pen parts.

 

Again, what should be a single reason for buying someone elses pens and then relabeling them?

 

Or in other words and as noted:

In Europe, it is common that counterfeiters take whatever pen they get and relabel it. These fakes are nothing uncommon here ... just have a look at all the photos on the links above.

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www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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1 minute ago, fountainpende said:

Please do not invent some "magical stories" about companies that just wanted to have something in the stores.

 

First, Montblanc did not have own stores ... Montblanc Boutiques started in the late 90ties. Second, I know that Montblanc was bombed ... and I also know that after the bombing, they have created some strand pens ... but they have always used their own pen parts.

 

Again, what should be a single reason for buying someone elses pens and then relabeling them?

 

Or in other words and as noted:

In Europe, it is common that counterfeiters take whatever pen they get and relabel it. These fakes are nothing uncommon here ...

If this was a indeed a counterfeit why didn't they remove the Reform tags?

And it seems strange that someone would take a period white star off a true Montblanc to make a counterfeit  as I  do own over twenty Montblanc's and this star is not a counterfeit , many counterfeit Montblanc's are out there even today tons of them are mass produced in China, but most each and nearly everyone is made to look like a Masterpiece, not a Reform pen. It's strange but in my copy of The Montblanc Diary it has many photos of stores and Boutiques back in the 40ties.

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again, please have a look at the photos above ... please have a look at the stars shown there.

 

And yes, many of the fakes of modern pens are produced in China. But as stated by Stefan, many of the vintage fakes are produced in Southern Europe (e.g. Croatia). So please do not mix fakes of modern and vintage pens ...

 

20 Montblanc pens is a good start ... I highly recommend Stefan Wallrafen's books as a great guide when buying some more vintage Montblanc pens.

 

Below are some of the fake vintage pens that were sent to me some years ago ... the fake stars actually do not look bad. But still ... all these are fakes.

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one more faked vintage Montblanc pen ...  as noted counterfeiters commonly just take some vintage pens and then create faked Montblanc pens. This is not uncommon ...

 

 

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all the pens and all the stars on these pens are fake ... none of the pens below is from Montblanc

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www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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57 minutes ago, psycherelics said:

........ Now then Reform in Nieder-Ramstadt wasn't destroyed and was known for high quality pens and supplied parts and pens to several large manufacturers, including Geha, Herlitz, Rotring, A. T. Cross, Elysée, Dunhill, S. T. Dupont, Cartier, Caran d’Ache, and Christian Dior.
So it not hard to imagine that Montblanc (Who couldn't produce a single pen in nearly four full years 1943 until near 1947) would want to have something to put in their stores
I clearly admit that this is indeed a Reform pen of the highest quality,.....

Hello psycherelics

I see you refer to my posting from 2007. But some years of history inverstigationes  went by and I can see now some details different.

Mutschler in Heidelberg purchased the trade mark "Reform" after the works in Nieder- Ramstadt were terminated 1957 and were taken over by ERO. Mutschler, now known as the new "Reform" trades actually with Geha, Herlitz, Rotring, Cross, Elysee etc. and made complete fountainpens for some non- fountainpen- making  luxury trademarks, But this was long after the end of ww2!

I cannot agree with Richard`s theory that the fp named "Montblanc Admiral Prima" stemmed from short after te war. This fountainpen had been made more than 15 years earlier (but not the imprint).  The filling method had not been longer "highest quality" since the piston filling had been invented. In 1929 Pelikan had been the fiirst. Only very few years later each German fp maker switched to the piston filler. A few push button fillers had been made for the export market. I cannot find any Admiral Prima in my Nieder- Ramstadt- Reform file.

<

Where did you buy the pens?

Kind Regards

Thomas

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It's strange but in my copy of The Montblanc Diary it has many photos of stores and Boutiques back in the 40ties.

 

In my Montblanc Diary there are only photos of independent Montblanc retailers such as Stöffhaas (p.49) or Füllhalterzentrale (p.48). Stöffhaas had stores that were exclusively selling Montblanc. But Söffhaas was not part of the Montblanc company.

 

In the book, you will also find photos of trade fair booths. Do you mean that? For example, see p.88 

 

 

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www.fountainpen.de - the website for Montblanc and Astoria collectors

 

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2 hours ago, Kaweco said:

I cannot agree with Richard`s theory that the fp named "Montblanc Admiral Prima" stemmed from short after te war. This fountainpen had been made more than 15 years earlier (but not the imprint).

That is not a problem. As I've noted, I'm not familiar with a pen called the Montblanc Admiral Prima, and the best I can do is guess as to the possible provenance of the pen in question. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

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