Hongdian "Forest" series: questions on carts and nibs

[JonSzanto]

Hey there - I purchased a single Hongdian Forest pen (in blue) to see how the quality was (build, function, etc) in advance of a 'bulk' purchase to gift students. I was pleased and went ahead with buying a dozen. They came, it's all good but... I often fill a converter with a syringe, but when I was testing the single pen I just put it in the bottle and filled the entire section. When I got the parcel of pens I took them apart to flush the front end to make sure they were good and clean (I'm sending them elsewhere) and that's when I saw...

 

That the pen uses a (somewhat?) proprietary cartridge system. The opening of the converter is larger than standard international, looks like a Lamy or Pilot or so. A quick check on Amazon showed carts and converters for the pens that, yes, were non-standard. Grrr. Bad on my part for not noticing, so here is my question: is this truly a proprietary size for them, or are there other (Chinese) pens that use this format?

 

I'm mostly bummed because I want kids to be able to use these pens for years, if possible, and in that case the more universal the expendables/replacement parts, the better. Live and learn.

 

Last question: are the nibs in these pens friction fit or in a screwed in nib unit? If the former, hard to pull? The pen I'm keeping writes well-enough, if boring. I have a nice #5 italic that was ground for me ages ago that would sit well in the pen, but I don't like to just yank without knowing. If you get my drift.

Comments and answers appreciated! Here's a quick pic of the three types of pen I purchased for Student Achievement Encouragement:

[A Smug Dill]

53 minutes ago, JonSzanto said:

is this truly a proprietary size for them, or are there other (Chinese) pens that use this format?

 

Almost all Chinese-made c/c-filled fountain pens use converters with either 2.6mm or 3.4mm bore, with the 2.6mm bore being more common. I can't say I've come across a fountain pen with a recognisable Chinese brand that uses 2.4mm-bore (‘interntaional standard’) converters, never mind that 2.4mm and 2.6mm sometimes look indistinguishable from each other to the average pen user, especially when the thickness of the wall around the converter opening is not uniform. Stick a Faber-Castell, or any (Pelikan, Diplomat, etc.) rebranded Schmidt ‘international standard’ converter into a Chinese pen that is designed to work with 2.6mm-bore converters, and you'll have wrecked it for future use with Western pens fitted with JoWo or Bock nibs. I've done that inadvertently or absent-mindedly many a time.

 

53 minutes ago, JonSzanto said:

I'm mostly bummed because I want kids to be able to use these pens for years, if possible, and in that case the more universal the expendables/replacement parts, the better.

 

While I agree with that philosophically, I don't think it needs to be ‘universal’ across brands. More than ever, one can easily and cheaply buy 2.6mm-bore and 3.4mm-bore converters over the Internet. Furthermore, if local retailers in your particular area don't stock them, then perhaps it's time you and your students, as prospective customers, put pressure on them to do so if you want ready accessibility and convenience.

 

‘International standard’ is only international from the Western perspective; by and large, the Chinese don't use it, the Japanese don't use it, and between them they have a huge share of today's fountain pen production and fountain pen users globally. I'm sure President Xi will be happy if established names in fountain pens such as Cross, Parker, Waterman and Lamy (all high-visibility brands to the average department store shopper) decide to adopt a single universal standard of 2.6mm-bore converters, if you want to convince those companies to support your philosophy.

 

Edit: I just pulled out a brand new unit of the HongDian model 1850 (aka whichever-colour Forest) to check. That looks like a 3.4mm-bore converter, the type PenBBS pens also use.

 

I checked just now:

 

US$0.97 for one lot of 5 units of 3.4mm-bore converters, and that's just looking at the first listing that popped up in response to a product search. Jinhao-branded ones are a little bit more expensive at US$2.17 for 5 units; but, be careful, because Jinhao makes both of those types of converters.

 

US$9.08 for one lot of 100 Jinhao-branded 3.4mm-bore blue ink cartridges inclusive of ‘free’ shipping to the US.

[JonSzanto]

Dill, I figured you might be first up at bat. Thanks for the solid info on the converters. I was fairly certain that Chinese pens I had bought as long as 10 years ago matched the "international standard" size, though I would need to pull out an old pen to check. Nonetheless, you have confirmed my suspicion and given me an understanding that others use this larger opening as well.

 

As to the rest, I wasn't looking to debate. I'm approaching it from ease-of-use from where we live, and the fact that I'm not going to be there to be able to see this project further down the road. I'll send info along (I'll be supplying online links to both carts and convs to the person who will gift these), but beyond that I am looking for ubiquity, and at least in the US the older 'int std" size is the more common. Time will change but I have no interest in the economics, politics, etc involved. I'm just being pragmatic at the moment.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, JonSzanto said:

Last question: are the nibs in these pens friction fit or in a screwed in nib unit? If the former, hard to pull?

 

The HongDian 1850 and 6013 both use interchangeable nibs in screw-in housing units. I just received an order for a bunch of spares in every width/style, in ‘white’ (i.e. silver) and in black.

 

You can probably pull the nib and feed out of their plastic housing/collar, but I haven't tried it myself. I do have an assembly with a cracked collar because some dried ink cemented the nib unit in the gripping section of my wife's ‘Black Forest’.

 

1 hour ago, JonSzanto said:

The pen I'm keeping writes well-enough, if boring. I have a nice #5 italic that was ground for me ages ago that would sit well in the pen,

 

I broke the ‘Fude‘/bent nib on one of my ‘Birch Forest’ pens, so I ground it crudely into an italic, while I waited for the spares to arrive.

[JonSzanto]

Thanks, ASD, both of those answers together gave me what I needed to know: I'm in no hurry to change the nib! This will be a "let's have an adventure this afternoon!" thing some day down the road.

 

Appreciate the help, thanks.

 

[Ermennda]

HongDian uses the 3.4 bore converter and is compatible with Parker cartridges. I checked it in a Birch Forest without any problem and no damage to the cartridge, I suppose it is still reusable.