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Please, help: Parker 75 Sterling Silver Cisele: fake or used barrel??



TheRedBeard

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TheRedBeard

Hello everyone,

 

My question to FPN members with good expertise in Parker 75 Sterling Silver Cisele pens.

 

Could you, please, help me with your opinion on the following issue?

 

There is a barrel of presumably unused (as declared by the previous owner) P75 Sterling Silver Cisele pen with flat tassies, the cap is marked “Made in USA”.

According to the previous owner the pen was purchased in the US around 1965/66 and kept stored for all last years…

 

After quick examination I have found no problems with nib, nib section and filler (it seemed those parst were never used), and no issues with the cap either (patina on the surface, storage marks on gold-plated tassie).

 

However, it is something wrong with the barrel.

 

Gold-plating has almost disappeared like after heavy use (I don't think that can happen after long storage).

Besides, the barrel has some smell more close to the one of steel/iron or iron/nickel alloys…

You may laugh at me, but I can tell smells of some particular metals or alloys :)

 

So, my question what does it mean?

1. The barrel is fake?

2. The barrel swap happened, and it was “borrowed” from the other heavily-used P75?

3. The gold-plating has naturally deteriorated after long storing?

4. The barrel's material is not Sterling Silver but some nickel-something alloy (I saw a few FPN threads on that topic, too)?

5. any other reasons?

 

Your expert suggestions, please.

 

Thanks in advance to everyone who can help.

 

P75-Barrel-Flat-1.jpg

All the best is only beginning now...

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Have you tried to clean the cap and barrel with a jeweller's cloth?  Cleaning with this cloth removes silver oxide and the barrel will shine.  Also, the cloth stains in black when the metal is silver.  It will also clean the gold plated tassel restoring the gold look.

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TheRedBeard
14 hours ago, zeroduke said:

Have you tried to clean the cap and barrel with a jeweller's cloth?  Cleaning with this cloth removes silver oxide and the barrel will shine.  Also, the cloth stains in black when the metal is silver.  It will also clean the gold plated tassel restoring the gold look.

Thanks, Zeroduke.

I considered doing that but did not do yet.

I will try and see.

All the best is only beginning now...

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TheRedBeard

Thank you, Zeroduke - it has worked perfectly ;) 

It is genuine silver.

 

And just received a confirmation from a trustworthy Parker expert that the pen is authentic.

 

All the best is only beginning now...

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19 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

Thank you, Zeroduke - it has worked perfectly ;) 

It is genuine silver.

 

And just received a confirmation from a trustworthy Parker expert that the pen is authentic.

 

Congratulations!!!  That's a beautiful pen.

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TheRedBeard
4 minutes ago, zeroduke said:

Congratulations!!!  That's a beautiful pen.

Thank you. yes, it is a marvellous pen - I've been hunting for this one in mint condition for a long time...

 

All the best is only beginning now...

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Regular use prevents silver from oxide.  Storing has that effect, but just cleaning with that cloth restores original look.  Always.

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Wise choice in what to use to clean the pen.  Pastes or liquids will remove the blackening in the grid, which you don't want. 

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TheRedBeard
10 minutes ago, zeroduke said:

Regular use prevents silver from oxide.  Storing has that effect, but just cleaning with that cloth restores original look.  Always.

Great, thank you, and good to know. I see it is like other silverware...

I've got another 75: Silver-plated Flamme but it is much younger.

All the best is only beginning now...

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TheRedBeard
4 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

Wise choice in what to use to clean the pen.  Pastes or liquids will remove the blackening in the grid, which you don't want. 

Thank you, and you're right.

I've not touched the entire barrel but only cleaned the tassie.

All the best is only beginning now...

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TheRedBeard

By the way, could you, please, remind/tell me how to correctly find the year this pen was made?

I have no doubts it is around 1965-68 but I'm curious to determine the exact year.

Thank you for any useful tips.

All the best is only beginning now...

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I don’t know a way to pin down an exact date of manufacture for 75s of this period.  In any case, it’s hard to date it with just a picture of the barrel.  

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TheRedBeard
8 minutes ago, gyasko said:

I don’t know a way to pin down an exact date of manufacture for 75s of this period.  In any case, it’s hard to date it with just a picture of the barrel.  

I perfectly realise that the barrel's look is not sufficient to identify the year.

And I'm also well-aware of the ways to identify a year of manufacturing of other Parker models but not P75s.

I guess there should be some clues like codes/marks on the cap or nib section or what else?...

I have not had a chance to examine this pen in detail so far, but will do quite soon.

All the best is only beginning now...

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inkstainedruth

Have you checked the parkercollectors.com website, TheRedBeard?  That's the first place I go for information on all things Parker.  No affiliation other than the Vac collection is largely Tony's fault -- I had asked him a question about a couple of my 51s and after answering he said "And next you'll be looking at Vacumatics!"  I said that I wouldn't -- that I didn't like the Art Deco styling.  But then someone in my local pen club brought in an Azure Blue Pearl Oversize and it was All Over™.... :headsmack:

As for 75s, I know that the later models have the "dished" tassies (rather than the earlier style completely flat ones), and that there are both French-made and American-made ones, but that's about it.  For the longest time I'd read posts from people about how 75s were their favorite pen, but didn't get it until I saw  one of the Ciselé ones at an estate sale a few years ago.  I didn't buy it because I didn't know enough to be able to tell if the price was good or not -- but I did then understand what people here were talking about.  So I spent half my time at the Ohio Pen Show a couple of years ago, looking at every 75 there, and trying to educate myself on what to look for.  Then got moderately lucky on eBay in that the pen I got had nobody else even watching the listing -- so I waited till the auction was nearly over and bid the minimum (it wasn't the best price -- but I thought it was fair).  I do need to see about some repairs now (it's leaking from underneath the metal band above the section) so yet another reason to go to a pen show.  Ironically, none of the other colors or finishes remotely interest me -- only the sterling Ciselé.  When I saw that one at the estate sale I was going "Wow -- that's really nice looking!" (much better than the photos I'd seen on here).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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TheRedBeard
44 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

Have you checked the parkercollectors.com website, TheRedBeard?  That's the first place I go for information on all things Parker.  No affiliation other than the Vac collection is largely Tony's fault -- I had asked him a question about a couple of my 51s and after answering he said "And next you'll be looking at Vacumatics!"  I said that I wouldn't -- that I didn't like the Art Deco styling.  But then someone in my local pen club brought in an Azure Blue Pearl Oversize and it was All Over™.... :headsmack:

As for 75s, I know that the later models have the "dished" tassies (rather than the earlier style completely flat ones), and that there are both French-made and American-made ones, but that's about it.  For the longest time I'd read posts from people about how 75s were their favorite pen, but didn't get it until I saw  one of the Ciselé ones at an estate sale a few years ago.  I didn't buy it because I didn't know enough to be able to tell if the price was good or not -- but I did then understand what people here were talking about.  So I spent half my time at the Ohio Pen Show a couple of years ago, looking at every 75 there, and trying to educate myself on what to look for.  Then got moderately lucky on eBay in that the pen I got had nobody else even watching the listing -- so I waited till the auction was nearly over and bid the minimum (it wasn't the best price -- but I thought it was fair).  I do need to see about some repairs now (it's leaking from underneath the metal band above the section) so yet another reason to go to a pen show.  Ironically, none of the other colors or finishes remotely interest me -- only the sterling Ciselé.  When I saw that one at the estate sale I was going "Wow -- that's really nice looking!" (much better than the photos I'd seen on here).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Thank you, Ruth.

I will do.

But it is exactly a problem you rightly described: many pretty knowledgeable Parker experts focus too much on P51s (understandably), so finding the people who may have better expertise in other models is not an easy task...

From time to time, I have been getting a useful advice from former Parker guys (either former

employees of Janesville or Newhaven factories, or sales managers) though.

Besides, I have known a few people from antiques shops in London, but to see them I have to wait until our current lockdown is lifted.

Maybe I will have a chance to speak to "right" people at this year's London Pen Show if it happens...

 

 

All the best is only beginning now...

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TheRedBeard

Ah... I know that sire as parkerpens.net :)

It is very useful but more detailed info on some models is not available there either...

All the best is only beginning now...

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OK, put it this way: there’s no known way of dating a post-1st year 1960s 75 to the year.  No codes, no nothing.  That’s typical of Parkers in that era.  

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vicpen123

Best site for 75s is http://www.parker75.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm . Compiled by Lin-Tah Wong several years ago but a treasure trove of detailed facts about the 75.

 

I have stated many times on this forum that a well lit and professionally photographed 75 Cisele is the most handsome pen of all.

 

Keep polishing with the right cloth. A 75 Cisele can never be too shiny and bright.

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TheRedBeard
13 hours ago, gyasko said:

OK, put it this way: there’s no known way of dating a post-1st year 1960s 75 to the year.  No codes, no nothing.  That’s typical of Parkers in that era.  

Thank you, I see.

I have come to the same conclusion.

One clue to prove it is from 66-68s years is that the nib is marked 66 (which corresponds to Medium), while later 75s had M mark instead - at least, the ones I had a chance to examine myself.

All the best is only beginning now...

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TheRedBeard
1 hour ago, vicpen123 said:

Best site for 75s is http://www.parker75.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm . Compiled by Lin-Tah Wong several years ago but a treasure trove of detailed facts about the 75.

 

I have stated many times on this forum that a well lit and professionally photographed 75 Cisele is the most handsome pen of all.

 

Keep polishing with the right cloth. A 75 Cisele can never be too shiny and bright.

Yes, I'm well-aware of that website but it doesn't help with early 75s identification.

 

I fully agree that P75 in Str Silver Cisele or some other Silver finishes is perhaps one of the most elegant and beautiful pens...

 

All the best is only beginning now...

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