On fake Montblanc pens at Ebay

[bunnspecial]

2 hours ago, sgphototn said:

146 and 149 don't appeal to me for the value. Even knowledgeable pen owners get tricked on Ebay as well as first-time suckers.

 

First of all, what do you mean by "because of the value."?

 

Second, if you can point to a convincing 146 or 149 fake, I'll eat my words.

 

It's a shame that you feel the need to comment all the time on how much you dislike the brand, think they're overpriced, etc and even imply that all the ones you see people using are fake rather than just enjoying the pens you like and letting those of us who like Montblancs enjoy them...that's just me though.

 

BTW, there are several tiers of fake Rolexes, and the really convincing fakes tend to be as expensive as the older genuine models. The less expensive ones speak for themselves. BTW, I've kicked sellers out of my local watch show for selling obvious fakes that they swore were real. The last "incident" I had, the watches in question didn't hold up within a foot or so and really didn't when you picked them up.

[torstar]

Just now, bunnspecial said:

 

First of all, what do you mean by "because of the value."?

 

Second, if you can point to a convincing 146 or 149 fake, I'll eat my words.

 

It's a shame that you feel the need to comment all the time on how much you dislike the brand, think they're overpriced, etc and even imply that all the ones you see people using are fake rather than just enjoying the pens you like and letting those of us who like Montblancs enjoy them...that's just me though.

 

BTW, there are several tiers of fake Rolexes, and the really convincing fakes tend to be as expensive as the older genuine models. The less expensive ones speak for themselves. BTW, I've kicked sellers out of my local watch show for selling obvious fakes that they swore were real. The last "incident" I had, the watches in question didn't hold up within a foot or so and really didn't when you picked them up.

 

hard to fake a piston filler?

 

as for me.... i bought a fully displayed and flaw-stated used 149, sent it to HQ for repair. Paid the same for the pen and repairs, which was half the price of a new one. 

 

 

[bunnspecial]

1 minute ago, torstar said:

hard to fake a piston filler?

 

as for me.... i bought a fully displayed and flaw-stated used 149, sent it to HQ for repair. Paid the same for the pen and repairs, which was half the price of a new one. 

 

 

The piston filler is the reason why the 146 and 149 don't get faked, or at least not on any that I've seen.

 

And yes, Montblanc will fix most any "modern" pen(I think telescopic pistons are off limits, but everything else is good) and repairs can be surprisingly affordable. With that said, I wouldn't let them touch an ebonite feed pen since there's a decent chance it would come back with a modern plastic feed. The split ebonite feed, used through the 80s, is a masterpiece of both engineering and execution, and I consider it worth preserving.

[torstar]

1 minute ago, bunnspecial said:

 

The piston filler is the reason why the 146 and 149 don't get faked, or at least not on any that I've seen.

 

And yes, Montblanc will fix most any "modern" pen(I think telescopic pistons are off limits, but everything else is good) and repairs can be surprisingly affordable. With that said, I wouldn't let them touch an ebonite feed pen since there's a decent chance it would come back with a modern plastic feed. The split ebonite feed, used through the 80s, is a masterpiece of both engineering and execution, and I consider it worth preserving.

 

Fair enough, it was a 1990 MB149, purchased in 2001 and going strong and in the portfolio.

 

Repairs... they estimate just enough for me to go ahead with it, with much agonizing, just below "forget it" levels... 

 

 

 

[bunnspecial]

Just now, torstar said:

 

Fair enough, it was a 1990 MB149, purchased in 2001 and going strong and in the portfolio.

 

Repairs... they estimate just enough for me to go ahead with it, with much agonizing, just below "forget it" levels... 

 

 

 

 

Full disclosure-I'd rather have someone independent repair anything short of a new Montblanc. They tend to be less expensive, which is a secondary consideration, but also will respect leaving original parts rather than replacing with new.

 

It's the same deal with why an independent watchmaker services the Rolex I wear every day. Not that my 80s Datejust is anything crazy valuable or rare, but Rolex tends to replace a lot of parts that don't necessarily have to be replaced. The independent guy I do has to replace certain things to make sure the repair is up to Rolex standards(i.e. last trip I got a new crown and crown tube, the former because my old one didn't seal to factory water resistance specs, the latter because the crowns Rolex supplies won't fit the original tube) but he'll leave cosmetic stuff as is per my request. I've seen really, really valuable things like 50s Subs ruined by Rolex when their nicely patined dials and/or bezels got swapped for a perfect replacement and destroyed the valuable original parts in the process.

[torstar]

1 minute ago, bunnspecial said:

 

Full disclosure-I'd rather have someone independent repair anything short of a new Montblanc. They tend to be less expensive, which is a secondary consideration, but also will respect leaving original parts rather than replacing with new.

 

It's the same deal with why an independent watchmaker services the Rolex I wear every day. Not that my 80s Datejust is anything crazy valuable or rare, but Rolex tends to replace a lot of parts that don't necessarily have to be replaced. The independent guy I do has to replace certain things to make sure the repair is up to Rolex standards(i.e. last trip I got a new crown and crown tube, the former because my old one didn't seal to factory water resistance specs, the latter because the crowns Rolex supplies won't fit the original tube) but he'll leave cosmetic stuff as is per my request. I've seen really, really valuable things like 50s Subs ruined by Rolex when their nicely patined dials and/or bezels got swapped for a perfect replacement and destroyed the valuable original parts in the process.

 

agreed, but MB put on a severe war of attrition years ago and i usually go back to HQ for repairs

 

other brands i have a few indies on hand who have done great work

 

 

[sgphototn]

28 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

 

First of all, what do you mean by "because of the value."?

 

Second, if you can point to a convincing 146 or 149 fake, I'll eat my words.

 

It's a shame that you feel the need to comment all the time on how much you dislike the brand, think they're overpriced, etc and even imply that all the ones you see people using are fake rather than just enjoying the pens you like and letting those of us who like Montblancs enjoy them...that's just me though.

 

BTW, there are several tiers of fake Rolexes, and the really convincing fakes tend to be as expensive as the older genuine models. The less expensive ones speak for themselves. BTW, I've kicked sellers out of my local watch show for selling obvious fakes that they swore were real. The last "incident" I had, the watches in question didn't hold up within a foot or so and really didn't when you picked them up.

You seem upset because I don't value Montblanc the way you do. I do think they're overpriced and overhyped. I think that the 'precious resin' is simply marketing and not a real thing. I've never seen 'precious resin' listed in the periodic table or been advised by my broker to buy it as a hedge against inflation. You also certainly have a way of not actually reading what I wrote without attempting to misconstrue what I wrote and trying to start an argument.

 

If you don't think that modern Montblanc pens like the 146 and 149 can be faked, that's your right. There are many who will disagree with some of them who were convinced it was a Montblanc and spent their money.

 

I stand by what I wrote earlier. If you're going to continue to pick a fight with what I write, just ignore me as I shall you.

 

 

 

 

 

[torstar]

2 minutes ago, sgphototn said:

You seem upset because I don't value Montblanc the way you do. I do think they're overpriced and overhyped. I think that the 'precious resin' is simply marketing and not a real thing. I've never seen 'precious resin' listed in the periodic table or been advised by my broker to buy it as a hedge against inflation. You also certainly have a way of not actually reading what I wrote without attempting to misconstrue what I wrote and trying to start an argument.

 

If you don't think that modern Montblanc pens like the 146 and 149 can be faked, that's your right. There are many who will disagree with some of them who were convinced it was a Montblanc and spent their money.

 

I stand by what I wrote earlier. If you're going to continue to pick a fight with what I write, just ignore me as I shall you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

not aware that there are piston-filler fakes made of 146s and 149s

 

it's a very knowledgeable board, try to remember this...

 

if you feel MB is overpriced, why are you bothering with the brand?  looking to get fleeced thinking you are getting a superbargain???

 

heh heh heh....  good luck....

 

[bunnspecial]

Just now, sgphototn said:

You seem upset because I don't value Montblanc the way you do. I do think they're overpriced and overhyped. I think that the 'precious resin' is simply marketing and not a real thing. I've never seen 'precious resin' listed in the periodic table or been advised by my broker to buy is as a hedge against inflation. You also certainly have a way of not actually reading what I wrote without attempting to misconstrue what I wrote and trying to start an argument.

 

If you don't think that modern Montblanc pens like the 146 and 149 can be faked, that's your right. There are many who will disagree with some of them who were convinced it was a Montblanc and spent their money.

 

I stand by what I wrote earlier. If you're going to continue to pick a fight with what I write, just ignore me as I shall you.

 

 

 

The bottom line is that you are the sort of person that I thought this site had been rid of years ago-the people who dislike Montblanc for being Montblanc.

 

And, again, you're trotting out another tired argument about "Precious Resin." Montblanc lists it as a material but the only people who make a big deal out of it are people who dislike the brand.

 

Yes, it's plastic. What type of plastic, I don't know. What I do know is it's remarkably scratch resistant and holds its shine as well as any plastic I've ever used regularly. BTW, Pelikan uses the same German word in their literature to describe the material used in their higher end models(Edelharz), and translate it in English to "Special Resin."

 

I thought that this site had moved past this (bleep), but guess I was wrong.

 

And again, on convincing fake 146s or 149s, put up or shut up. The consensus is they don't exist. If they do, let's see some evidence.

[Beechwood]

Calm down guys, you are not going to convince the other that you are right and just getting yourselves wound up in the process.

 

With respect to you both/all.  It really doesn't matter.

[sgphototn]

2 minutes ago, Beechwood said:

 

 

With respect to you both/all.  It really doesn't matter.

You are correct. It doesn't matter. 

[bunnspecial]

These rules exist for a reason, and it's because of the incessant Montblanc witch hunts and bash fests that use to exist here.

 

I don't here so much vile directed at any other brand, meanwhile 99.9% of Montblanc users/collectors just carry on enjoying our pens. When pressed, I've talked to very few people who talk negatively incessantly who have ever actually owned one.

 

Yes, they're expensive new. We still like them.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/announcement/9-montblanc-forum-rules/

 

Also, I'm still waiting for evidence of these supposed "convincing" 146 and 149 fakes. That's a pretty bold claim that has not made it to the collector community.

 

And yes I'm hot on this because Montblanc hating is an age-old sport that makes fountain pen communities toxic places. I'm glad that the hard-working moderators here have changed the overall tone from where it was 10 years ago. It bothers me that we now have a member coming in who frankly is overtly trolling on the brand at seemingly every opportunity.

[Beechwood]

You are off topic.

 

This thread is not about what people think of Montblanc pens.

 

It is a useful topic with regard to newsabout fakes.

 

If you continue to take a stand you will just have this thread closed, that will do you and your cause no good at all.

 

Let the Moderators deal with any allegation of Trolling or unreasonable brand bashing.

[Bad Handwriting]

Don’t they have some type of serial number on the band that goes around the clip?

[mke]

> that are piston fillers. Those are very difficult to make well

Since when are piston fillers difficult to make? Look at all the $3 piston fillers from Wingsung (3008 e.g.). And they are very good quality.

 

[Beechwood]

My grievance is against the sellers who offer a pen for sale on eBay and describe a pen as a genuine Montblanc when they know that they have bought a handful of fake pens.

 

They phrase the description in such a way that they are innocent of any wrong doing. The classic is 'I have inherited this pen from my grandfather who was a pen collector, this pen has never been used'.

 

@Bad HandwritingNot all genuine MBs have serial numbers and the fakers even fake the serial numbers.

 

 

[Bad Handwriting]

1 hour ago, Beechwood said:

My grievance is against the sellers who offer a pen for sale on eBay and describe a pen as a genuine Montblanc when they know that they have bought a handful of fake pens.

 

They phrase the description in such a way that they are innocent of any wrong doing. The classic is 'I have inherited this pen from my grandfather who was a pen collector, this pen has never been used'.

 

@Bad HandwritingNot all genuine MBs have serial numbers and the fakers even fake the serial numbers.

 

 

This is helpful. So if you don’t mind this amateur asking, are there other signs/variables to make note of when reviewing MBs to determine if they may be fake?

[Beechwood]

8 minutes ago, Bad Handwriting said:

This is helpful. So if you don’t mind this amateur asking, are there other signs/variables to make note of when reviewing MBs to determine if they may be fake?

 

 

There are a few guides  on Youtube, but if you can find an  image of an MB that you know to be genuine and compare the sellers image that should be a start, although this will not help you if the seller uses genuine images to sell a fake pen, it has been known.

 

I would look at their history as much as possible, if they have a record of selling many MBs that would be a warning sign, even when they have 100% record.

 

If you are a cautious person then i would avoid ebay if you are wanting a used MB and used the FPN classifieds buying only from a long established member and do not be afraid to ask tough question such as is the pen perfect, why are you selling, do you have the stamped service book and a purchase receipt, if I have good reason to be unhappy with my purchase will you refund my money.

 

These are not bad questions to ask of an ebay seller too, remember that there are plenty of pens out there, why risk your money buying a dud.

 

 

[gerigo]

1 hour ago, Bad Handwriting said:

This is helpful. So if you don’t mind this amateur asking, are there other signs/variables to make note of when reviewing MBs to determine if they may be fake?

I hope you read my reply earlier on in the thread.

There are people out there who firmly believe you can authentic with tracking fake serial numbers, the placement of the various different unique Montblanc hallmarks or the specific way the "precious resin" reflects or emits light. I find these to be dubious because these are things that counterfeiters can easily modify and replicate quickly to update the veracity of their products. 

I use 3 ways that I outlined in my earlier reply.

The most important and critical are the nib and feed. A functional feed is very difficult to replicate. A Montblanc feed is even harder to do so. With a feed, you can literally tell who made the fountain pen pretty much globally. Correspondingly so, you can tell certain models of current Cartier pens are OEMed by Montblanc just because of the feed. Or that other Cartier's are OEMed by Waterman and their top of the range pens are Bock nibs that are probably tuned in-house. 

 

The second is whether it's a piston filler. As MKE as pointed out, while it's not hard to replicate a piston filler, it's a lot easier for the counterfeiter to use a converter. Also Montblanc's 149 and 146 has always been piston fillers. If you see any in the market with converters, you immediately know they are fakes. 

 

The 3rd is the packaging. You might ask, well many vintage Montblanc's no longer have their warranty and packaging. Well counterfeiters don't make replicas of vintage Montblanc's. That's because counterfeits are targeted at those who want to pay little for something that costs a lot. They aren't interested in the vintage products that harken to the heritage of the brand. 

Most important, educate yourself. Learn what real Montblanc pens look like, Their proportions and their material choices. Also know what Montblanc packaging and warranties look like. That's the best way to prevent yourself from being hoodwinked by the counterfeiters. 

[cynegils]

Hi, I just read this thread and want to thank everyone for their answers. I recently bought a 149 and tried to educate myself in the best way I could before I did this (i.e. by reading multiple sources, YouTube videos, and reading threads such as these). I'm quite sure my pen is original (although anxiety always finds a way of betraying confidence) and the pen writes beautifully. However, from what I'd read here and elsewhere, 149s and other MB fountain pens are almost never faked.

 

Now I read from gerigo and others that this is not true. It would be very helpful for those of us who are still trying to learn if anyone who has spotted a fake MB fountain pen to actually include the link here, or to simply post a picture of the pen here to help us learn. I've just looked at over 50 MB 149s and 146s on eBay, and I can't find a single one that looks like it might even be fake, but of course, I'm no expert.