Jump to content

Pelikan M400 modern EF nib



Recommended Posts

Colleagues,

I recently purchased a brand new unused EF Pelikan m400 nib from a reputable European dealer from Holland. The nib arrived after some wait and I was excited to swap it out with the nib in my Pelikan m400. The nib writes smooth with a wet feel to it. However, it is not like the EF that I had expected. I usually write with Sailor 1911 pens with m-f or m nibs. However, when I write it produces line closer to a medium. See the attached pictures. Is it something normal for Pelikan m400 ef nib? I spoke to Chatpak to see if I can exchange the nib and I was told since I had brought it in the EU, they could not help me here in the USA. I can live with the nib but it is not writing an EF line or my expectation are based on my previous experiences with Japanese pens? Can anyone from this forum please enlighten me? Thanks.20210119_190538_resized.thumb.jpg.8ab3ddf79024fd19357a30ff73981598.jpg20210119_190519_resized.thumb.jpg.4b0a24ec2460e7e64533ccce4a3652d3.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 38
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Bo Bo Olson

    11

  • coinlvr

    6

  • N1003U

    5

  • James-B

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hello, for me the line produced is in line with the expectations of an EF Pelikan.

Japanese nibs in general produce reasonably thinner lines, when compared to nibs with the same classification outside Japan.

If you realize that it will not be possible to adapt to that line, I suggest a nib regrind.

 

Regards

Link to post
Share on other sites
A Smug Dill
2 hours ago, coinlvr said:

However, it is not like the EF that I had expected. I usually write with Sailor 1911 pens with m-f or m nibs. However, when I write it produces line closer to a medium. See the attached pictures. Is it something normal for Pelikan m400 ef nib?

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Switala said:

Hello, for me the line produced is in line with the expectations of an EF Pelikan.

 

For gold nibs factory-fitted on the Pelikan Souverän line (excluding the ‘Classic’ M2xx and P2xx, etc.), at any rate.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Japanese pens consistently produce thinner EF and F lines than my non-Japanese pens. I love my Pilot Custom 823. But Pelikan EF and F nibs are generally wider.

 

My vintage Pelikan gold-nibbed pens produce thinner EF lines than my modern gold-nibbed Pelikans.

 

My modern steel-nibbed Pelikans produce lines that are slightly thinner than the modern gold-nibbed Pelikans, but a smidge thicker than my vintage gold-nibbed Pelikans.

 

My modern gold-nibbed EF Pelikans produce lines that vary in thickness from pen to pen.

 

This could drive a person crazy. I've learned to accept the line that I get, or get a nib narrowed by a nibmeister, or buy a Pelikan with a wider nib and have it turned into a stub or oblique.  It just depends on the pen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Karmachanic

As a rule Japanese EF/F nibs are generally a grade narrower than Euro nibs.

An M200 steel EF will give you a cleaner, thinner line than the M400 gold nib, but more like a Japanese F.

 

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

Link to post
Share on other sites
mizgeorge

It's also worth factoring in the ink and paper. Pelikans tend to wetness, so if you want finer lines, you'll need drier inks and smooth, non-bleeding or feathering paper (and of course a light hand)

 

If you get the combination right you might be happier, but you'll never get the super thin EF line of a Japanese nib without having the nib worked on - and there's a value equation that comes into play for that.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bo Bo Olson

Japanese nibs are designed for a small printed script. If you print, go for it if you like spiderweb and baby spiderweb lines. You of course have to use a boring mono-tone supersaturated ink to see the line.

 

Vintage and semi-vintage nibs are @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern. Some say a full size. I don't know....outside the 200, I stay far away from modern. Did have a baby bottomed 605 BB, now a B stub.

F is minimum for two toned shading inks.....and good to better paper. The much disdained M is better and will write on classic rough paper, Laid or Linen Effect best.

 

Don't get locked into too thin to see lines, in there are lots of fun to be had in readable lines, if you have the papers and inks for it.

 

Euro/American semi & vintage nibs were designed for the flowing written cursive script so are wider than nibs designed for tiny printed script.....I do prefer those cursive nibs.

 

Modern Pelikan nibs outside the 200 are designed for folks that hold their fountain pen vertical like a ball point. If you wish to hold your fountain pen like a ball point, go modern.

The old vintage K nibs were similar, but had a flat stubbish bottom of the tipping and a round ball on top, for those who liked to hod a fountain pen like a pencil....pre-ball point. So it could be held either way, and get the stubbish line if wished.

A factory stub, has a cleaner line than the modern fat double ball/ double Kugal nib.

All vintage and semi-vintage and the 200's nibs write with a cleaner line than modern.

 

Monotone vintage semi-flex '50-65 and semi-vintage regular flex '82-97 will fit the 200/400&600, and are the better nibs, writing with bounce in 'soft' regular flex of soft ++ of semi-flex and both write with a clean line.

 

Oh it's only the modern butter smooth ball point nibs, that have trouble with baby bottom.The older nibs are one step below butter smooth slide around on slick paper nibs; never had that problem in they were not over polished.

 

As mentioned Pelikan 4001 inks are designed for the wetter writing Pelikan nibs.....like Waterman made narrower nibs so had a wetter ink.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
inkstainedruth

Yeah, what others have said.  European nibs just tend to run wider than their Japanese counterparts for "size".  There is no "standard" for nib width other than what each manufacturer sets for itself.  In addition (just to throw an additional monkey wrench into the works, vintage nibs tend to run narrower than their modern counterparts, as well. -- even within the same brand.

A Japanese EF nib would drive me absolutely bonkers: a European EF is much more tolerable. YMMV

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

Link to post
Share on other sites
TitoThePencilPimp

With out having to get a nib grind on the m400 ef nib. You can get a m200 steel nib ef. Writes closer to a Japanse F. 

 

 

But play with writing with the m400 ef nib. I once only limited myself to ef Japanese nibs. Now, I prefer Euro F and Euro broad. If you decide to go for a nib grind, Mr. Masuyama has the best xf/xxf nib (A sample size of 10 nibs worked on by 6 different people), with Mark (nib grinder) being a close second. Both preform amazing work, with Mr. Masuyama work being a tad better. You won't be disappointed by choosing either one. Mark has a faster turn around rate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your great suggestions. I will order an ef steel nib from endless pens that seem to have affordable prices for my pen. Grinding is an option that I had never considered until now. Mr. Masuyama's video on YouTube was very helpful. But buying a steel nib seems like a deal given the price constraints that I face as a librarian. Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2021 at 7:08 PM, coinlvr said:

I spoke to Chatpak to see if I can exchange the nib and I was told since I had brought it in the EU, they could not help me here in the USA

When did you ask them? They changed their policy again recently to accommodate for pens bought at ADs in the EU and brought back to the USA  (they let me get my pen fixed, and I was in this situation):

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2020/07/20/pelikan-chartpak-changes-repair-policy/amp/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aimi, I called them this past week. I will call them again on Monday. I will let them know the problem. It is not the pen that I bought but a ef gold nib. Thank you for your great suggestion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bo Bo Olson

Closer to a Japanese M...but not quite? more like a Japanese F?...perhaps a Sailor F, in they are reputed to be the fat Japanese nibs.

 

It is a normal complaint from folks that start with thinner Japanese nibs.

 

My Mark 1 eye is calibrated to old US or Euro width. So I find Japanese pens missmarked one width skinny.

Your Mark 2 eye is calibrated to Japanese size, so to you Euro nibs are miss marked a size or more wide.............then you got to add in that the modern nib is fatter than that........I'd say from my reading closer to an F.

 

 

I do find the modern fat and blobby Pelikan nib out side the regular flex 200, to be stiff. The 400/600 are semi-nail, the 800 is now a nail, and the 1000 is now regular flex, rather than the semi-flex it was back when Bock made Pelikan's nibs. 

I chase the nice springy regular flex '82-97 or vintage semi-flex '50-65 Pelikan pens. They are 1/2 a width narrower than modern Pelikan nibs, and have the proper nib geometry (instead of two fat ball up and down on the end of the nib) so write with a cleaner line.

The '82-97 EF were once narrower than Parker, Shaffer and even Waterman!!!! And Waterman had narrower nibs than the Pelikans outside the EF.

Try a 200's gold plated nice and springy true size EF.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much all for your advice. I cleaned the pen thoroughly and inked it up with Pelikan Edelstein Olivine. And suddenly, my Pelikan gold ef nib started to behave more like a japanese F nib. Thank you so it was a drier ink that helped. I will continue using my Waterman Serenity Blue in my old Parker 51. Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bo Bo Olson

Waterman Serenity Blue, use to be called Florida Blue, I think. Before Noodlers Waterman inks were considered wet inks. (Now some Noodlere users consider Waterman Blue a dry ink!!!:unsure:)

 

Richard Binder liked .... so hard to remember the new nonsense names of the old Waterman inks, the Blue for testing. If the pen didn't work with it, then the pen had a problem.

Not all Edelstein inks are dry. I have a lot of them, but don't have them in my mind as that is wet and that one is dry.....

I picked up a couple bottles of Olivine and Smoky Quartz down at my B&M. It still feels odd to say last year instead of a few months ago.

 

In the States, it's hard to get Pelikan 4001 blue black a very dry, highly respected ink, in in the States, in it is illegal.....the US used wimpy US rats instead of big strong Norway Rats in the ink drinking contests.

And seeing the US is a minor ink market, Pelikan didn't bow down to foolishness.

Order other Pelikan inks from Germany and smuggle a bottle of BB into the order.

 

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
chromantic

I order EFs on my Souverans and certainly there's width variance due to mfg. inconsistency but ink has an effect, too, I find.

I was lucky with the recent M405 blue, which I've inked with Kana-cho and lays down a reasonably fine line, though not as spidery as my 1954-ish 140 as Bo BO can attest to. Yet, I seem to recall the Kana laying down a wider line in the green M300 I originally tried it in. The M400 BT with Macassar is also fairly fine while the majority of others are more what I'd consider F.

It's hard work to tell which is Old Harry when everybody's got boots on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Violet.Ink
Quote

However, when I write it produces line closer to a medium. See the attached pictures. Is it something normal for Pelikan m400 ef nib? 

I suppose so; I have a Montegrappa with a (steel) medium nib that writes thinner than my M400 tortoiseshell white with EF nib...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bo Bo Olson

Outside the 200 nib, the modern post '97 Pelikan nibs are fat and blobby being a double ball/double kugal nib.***

The old vintage '50-65  Kugal nib...the KOB, KM, had a ball on top for those who liked to write with a pencil....BP's were brand new on the market. They however had the normal stub bottom, so one could get the regular line in those semi-flex nibs of that era and a clean line...on the bottom, and they don't feel fat and blobby to me.

T

 

***Developed so as not to scare off BP&RB users....stiffer too, so they don't bend as easy with the cross over Ham Fisted. There are many, many horror stories, :gaah: Where some Jack Hammered Ball Point Barbarian grabs an open fountain pen and makes the nib a pretzel in under 1 1/2 seconds.:crybaby:It was so much cheaper not to have to replace so many pretzel nibs....by making them stiffer.

 

The good thing is you can source semi-flex nibs from the '50-65 era and nice springy regular flex nibs in gold, like the 200's steel nib from the '82-97. Era.

 

(The steel or gold plated 200's are the equal of the vintage and semi-vintage gold nibs.......I too was once a gold snob.

Then a passed English pal had me trans-mail some 200's nibs to him from Germany....in there were folks in Germany who trust only German Post. He said try them. I did. I liked them, but had some 400's so didn't need any 200's. :lticaptd:So I got a 215 instead....5-6 or so 200's later............be warned the 200's grow on one...........and have great nibs.

 

Sourcing a regular flex nib for a 800 is much harder....

I don't know how to tell a a pre'98 Germany regular flex nibbed 800 from a post '97 nail.

 

From that era, the W.Germany nibs are a slight tad more springy....but you would have to have a '91-97 nibbed pen to feel any difference and look for it.

I just lucked into a W.Germany 800....in OM, but having other regular flex obliques including W.German ones...know it's a hint of the line variation of what a vintage gold semi-flex has....in oblique or even a straight nib.

 

You don't have to 'Do Something' to get line variation, of natural flair, it is designed in...............

...............Do Not get arrested for Nib Abuse....they are flair pens.........not making Olympic  superflex splints.

One writes at normal speed..................it wasn't until last year I discovered those who complained about semi-flex writing slow were Nib Abusers.

 

It's almost...semi.       .....Semi-Flex, not Semi-Flex.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Violet.ink, Will Montegrappa nib fit in my Pelikan m400? is it expensive?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

From that era, the W.Germany nibs are a slight tad more springy....but you would have to have a '91-97 nibbed pen to feel any difference and look for it.

I just lucked into a W.Germany 800....in OM, but having other regular flex obliques including W.German ones...know it's a hint of the line variation of what a vintage gold semi-flex has....in oblique or even a straight nib.

 

I have the same experience with a W.Germany M800--it is springier than my modern ones--even the 1996 Austria, but not by a lot. If my research is correct, a W. Germany M800 with an 18k nib was produced between 1990 (beginning of 18k nib production for M800 ) and 1992 (when they ran out of stock of rings marked "W GERMANY"). From stories here and my experience, the specs on the nibs were definitely different then.

 

To the OP: I have two modern 14k Pelikan EF nibs, one a 400, the other a 600, and they are both pretty fat compared to my other EFs (Lamy, Jowo, and Sailor), and very stiff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now







×
×
  • Create New...