Hey, This Ink Stuff is Expensive

[Arkanabar]

My parents had a Bialetti for decades.  They didn't drink a lot of espresso, but it's a very simple and nearly bulletproof device for steam cleaning extra dark roasted finely milled coffee grounds.  All you need is a way to heat it well past boiling.

[Estycollector]

42 minutes ago, Arkanabar said:

My parents had a Bialetti for decades.  They didn't drink a lot of espresso, but it's a very simple and nearly bulletproof device for steam cleaning extra dark roasted finely milled coffee grounds.  All you need is a way to heat it well past boiling.

I have one that is stove top and one that is an electric version. Both provide a wonderful cup of joe...as they say. 

[corgicoupe]

Our Bialetti Mokas hold 150 ml of water. We use two because I drink decaf. I'm satisfied with Lavazza, but my wife prefers Illy coffee. We usually cook one or two cups each day on a gas stove. I also have a $600 Francis Francis that gets used about once per week. It makes a very good espresso and has lasted for years, but I've had several other brands that failed in one way or another. The Bialetti is a coffee mainstay in our home.

[radellaf]

I see a few ways to think about it.

1. Writing.  How much does it cost to write?  Per page, word, whatever.  I get a lot of pages out of a mL, which is on the order of a quarter.  1c per sheet?  Even 5c.  That's on par with paper cost of a $5 ream, and definitely less than what I pay for stationery or fancy paper like Tomoe or Rhodia.  Call it 10-20% of the cost of writing the page.  Not bad.   It's also on the order of what I hear inkjet ink costs per page (for text) on the cheapest-to-print models.  That ink is pricey per mL but I guess they use a lot less of it.  5% coverage I think it's rated.

If I cared only about cost per word then I would get something like a 350mL Pilot bottle, or at least 250mL Pelikans.  I don't, and maybe half my ink probably doesn't make it to the page for various reasons (I don't write much)

 

2. Decoration.  How much does it cost for the bottle, as an ornament?  Am I happy with $20-$25 for my Iroshi bottle sitting there to look at on the shelf, or even just having it in a nearby box or drawer?  I would certainly prefer that it cost $5 or $10.  But, nobody is twisting my arm to buy them, and I seem to have a lot.   Some of that is down to the fact I buy them a few at a time.  I don't really want to know how much I spent for everything on the shelf, as it would not seem worth it.  All at once.  I guess it was worth it, enjoying each package as I got it.   I generally get less value from pen stuff if I get too much in one go.

 

3. Fairness.  Is it fairly priced given the production inputs and overhead required for me to be able to buy it at all?  And, yes, I _do_ think that there is such a thing as overcharging for things.  "What the market will bear" is practicality, not (my take on) morality.  I really don't know.  I'm sure Noodler's prices (<2c/mL) are fair.  I'm sure $50 30mL bottles of "normal" kinds of ink are ridiculously overpriced.  Honestly, I start feeling ripped off somewhere between $15-20 for a 50mL bottle.  Or when I see a big increase in cost per mL because of a bottle shrink... grumble, grumble.   

 

4. Time, or As A Hobby.  Is it worth what I'm paying for the enjoyment that the inky part of the hobby gives me?  If I find I spent $500 on a year's ink, do I regret it?  How's that compare with other stuff?  I've had 5 years of enjoyment from an $800 phone.  3 years from a considerably more expensive computer.  I've spent less (per year on additional) candle supplies.  Electronics?   I'm not really sure.  Probably, given the cost per bottle, I've been buying a little more than I'd like for the joy to be had.  Half as many bottles may net 80% (or even 100%) as much joy.   Or over 100% - maybe all the space it's taking up is a net negative.

 

 

As an ex-inkjet-refill-tech, I'll throw in my opinion that I don't trust refilled cartridges (which the ones with printheads are) or "compatibles" (the ones that are just ink tanks).  Sure, they may work.  You can buy them for years and never have a problem.  YMMV, or ya pay your money and you take your chances.  A good refiller does make all the difference.

Me?  I've had too many problems, even refilling them myself.   If there's a leak it can cost you the printer, and if a tank fails to deliver ink it can kill a printhead.  Or, it takes way too much time in one way or another.  The ink is generally not as good, especially for photos.   What's worked for me is a $36 a year ink subscription program for photos, and a B&W laser if I need to print a lot of text pages.  Everyone's needs are different.   Just sharing my opinion/experience.

[txomsy]

Amen to that.

[Gawain]

I'm very glad that fountain pen vendors sell ink samples.  If you figure it out,  you might find that Noodler's cost per ml is the best, but what am I going to do with 3 oz. of ink?  It would be fine if I didn't love all the ink colors and properties and planed to only write with one or two inks my entire life.   For me, that is not the case.

 

For $12 I can buy one bottle of Noodler's ink that will last me a lifetime.  For $12 I can buy Four 4ml samples of ink at Vanness. So if you compare price per ml, I'm getting screwed buying samples, but it makes me happy and since I have over 40 samples, each 4ml vial goes a long way.  And if I end up loving the sample, I buy a full bottle or more samples.  For me, more bang for the buck, more variety and more flexibility buying samples.

[inkstainedruth]

And if you *don't* like an ink's color or behavior, a sample vial costs way less than a full bottle of ink (even an inexpensive ink like most Noodler's).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[BigBlot]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:29 PM, Gawain said:

I'm very glad that fountain pen vendors sell ink samples.  If you figure it out,  you might find that Noodler's cost per ml is the best, but what am I going to do with 3 oz. of ink?  It would be fine if I didn't love all the ink colors and properties and planed to only write with one or two inks my entire life.   For me, that is not the case.

 

For $12 I can buy one bottle of Noodler's ink that will last me a lifetime.  For $12 I can buy Four 4ml samples of ink at Vanness. So if you compare price per ml, I'm getting screwed buying samples, but it makes me happy and since I have over 40 samples, each 4ml vial goes a long way.  And if I end up loving the sample, I buy a full bottle or more samples.  For me, more bang for the buck, more variety and more flexibility buying samples.

On my third bottle of Noodler's black. Just saying...

[arcfide]

I've recently been doing some price calculations for my stationary products as I've been changing things around a bit. If I look at the cost of my paper vs. the cost of ink, ink isn't much of a concern. If I use about .5ml per day, even with the expensive $24 / 50ml bottles of Sailor or other luxury inks, I'm still less than what I might be tempted to spend easily on paper for that same period. The paper that is affordable and usable for me is significantly more restricted than the set of inks that I have available to me at prices that are much less than that of paper. 

 

So, if I want to save money, the first thing I'm looking at is my paper, not my ink, and even then, just picking a decent standard ink that is in the $10 - $15 / 50ml range is going to be sufficient to keep me pretty affordable for the year. Even at $20 / 50ml I'm still under my paper costs unless I go for the cheapest notebooks that I would want to use. In terms of "subjective value per dollar" ink is a lot cheaper than paper. 🙂 It's much harder to find good, enjoyable paper that is affordable than good ink that is such. 

[radellaf]

I write fairly little, so if I was rational I should buy 90% samples (4mL or more, please, not 2mL) and only a few bottles of:

real favorites,

limited editions,

ones I can't get samples of,

ones worth having for decoration.

 

I am clearly not at all rational, as: I have a penchant for large (120mL+) bottles of ink, I do not favor limited editions, and at least 3/4 of my bottles are not on display.   I don't know how many are not available as samples.  A lot, I suspect, but not the majority.

 

I think it comes down to me not liking samples very much because:

I have seen significant color variation vs the bottle (there could be bottle-to-bottle variation as well, of course)

I don't really enjoy getting them.  They're not the "real ink" in some psychological way.

I have a lifelong problem with over-buying hobby consumables for reasons my therapist hasn't figured out.  (I suspect the problem costs less than the amount of therapy to fix it, even in the case of ink and pens)

 

I've called it a desire to have an apocalypse-ready stock of non-essential-for-life items, while completely ignoring having a stockpile of anything actually important.  Not _entirely_ true, as I consider 20 rolls to be a "critically low" stock of TP for 2 people.  That served me well last year.  I don't have any stored water.  The worst disaster in my city, with power out for 2-10 days (hurricane Fran), did not disturb the water supply, though.  A generator to run the fridge would be a great idea.  And a bigger propane or kerosene heater.   I have at least a week of candles, flashlights, rechargeable and disposable batteries, and battery-powered phone chargers.

 

However.  I have two or three lifetimes of ink.  At least one full lifetime of being a reasonably prolific author doing 1st drafts with a fountain pen.