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Driest Permanent Inks



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I like to use permanent inks in my pens, but I also like to use vintage pens (and pens with ebonite feeds), which do much better with dry inks. So, what are the driest permanent inks you know of? 

My go to's are Rohrer and Klingner Salix and Scabiosa, but I'm looking for more. 

 

Cellulose Reactive (Noodler's), Iron-Gall, Pigment: I don't mind. I just want dry and permanent. 

For reference: I find Platinum Carbon Black far too wet, and Noodler's Inks generally too wet as well (varying from a little bit to a lot).
 

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Noodler's El Lawrence is on the dry side, i.e. compared to the other permanent Noodler's I've used. 

I believe most Iron galls are on the dry side. (though Not KWZ)

 

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A Smug Dill

Diamine Registrar's Ink and Platinum Classic Ink flow relatively ‘dry’ compared to, say, KWZ Ink IG inks.

 

I haven't found Platinum Carbon Black to be that wet; it simply has more of a tendency to feather on and/or bleed through the page than, say, Sailor Kiwaguro. I could put the black pigment inks into pens with ebonite feeds to test, but I guess it won't tell you a thing, because (especially) with ebonite feeds and permanent, waterproof inks I'd definitely want to use a fine and precise nib, preferably with not much ‘softness’ and much less flex.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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24 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

Diamine Registrar's Ink and Platinum Classic Ink flow relatively ‘dry’ compared to, say, KWZ Ink IG inks.

 

I haven't found Platinum Carbon Black to be that wet; it simply has more of a tendency to feather on and/or bleed through the page than, say, Sailor Kiwaguro. I could put the black pigment inks into pens with ebonite feeds to test, but I guess it won't tell you a thing, because (especially) with ebonite feeds and permanent, waterproof inks I'd definitely want to use a fine and precise nib, preferably with not much ‘softness’ and much less flex.

 

i believe Platinum Carbon Black is quite wet, based on the type of line width and behavior I get from that ink with my Music nib as well as what I notice in terms of its behavior with cotton swabbing and the like. It lays *significantly* more ink down compared to other inks, with the exception of some of the crazy wet Noodler's and some of the very wet dye-based inks. 

 

I would say that the Platinum Classic line is probably on the "normalish to dry" side of things, but not overly so, whereas Diamine Registrar's is distinctly more dry in my testing and much closer to R&K IG inks than Platinum's IG in my experience. Maybe ESSR as well? 

 

Additionally TWSBI and Lamy both make an IG ink, TWSBI Blue Black and Lamy Benitoite or however you spell it. Both are their company's "documentary" style inks. My experience suggests that TWSBI Blue Black is a little more dry, probably in line with Platinum Classic inks give or take. Reports I've seen from users of Lamy's version suggest that it is likely also a bit drier as well. 

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A Smug Dill

I'm not aware that Lamy Benitoite is an IG ink at all.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

I'm not aware that Lamy Benitoite is an IG ink at all.

 

I believe I read a thread about it here that they were trying to determine the contents, and Lamy finally reluctantly acknowledged that it has exceptionally "safe" and "small" quantities of IG. It seems that they were trying really hard not to highlight it, maybe for fear of worrying people away from using it? At any rate, the last I was able to find on the documentary ink in the Lamy Crystal line, which is I think Benitoite, it was at least partially IG. 

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A Smug Dill

Yes, Benitoite is the only ink in the Lamy T53 Crystal Ink product line that is marketed as being fit for documentary use.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Driest = Diamine Registrar's, second driest = ESSRI.

Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)

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bunnspecial

I find Montblanc Permanant Blue both dry and a fairly uninspiring ink.

 

With that said, if you require an ink which has been tested and guaranteed to meet ISO permanence standards, this(and permanent black) are the only ones of which I'm aware.

 

There may well be other inks, and likely are others(including many Noodler's inks) that would pass ISO criteria, so don't discount others, just know that if you actually need to show permanence these inks may be your best bet. IG inks would not pass because one of the tests involves a bleach solution.

 

With that said, I'm a big fan of IGs in general(I've gone on a buying spree recently for the old Montblanc Midnight Blue, although it's one of the wetter IGs I've used), and they do tend to be dry. Don't count on "forever" permanence, as in the real world I've seen them-for example-fade with UV exposure. For that one, I point to a note on my office door that I wrote in 2015 with Montblanc Midnight Blue IG and had faded considerably when I took it down last August.

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bunnspecial
12 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

I believe I read a thread about it here that they were trying to determine the contents, and Lamy finally reluctantly acknowledged that it has exceptionally "safe" and "small" quantities of IG. It seems that they were trying really hard not to highlight it, maybe for fear of worrying people away from using it? At any rate, the last I was able to find on the documentary ink in the Lamy Crystal line, which is I think Benitoite, it was at least partially IG. 

 

I'm glad to know for sure, although would be interested in seeing the word from Lamy.

 

It certainly has a lot of IG properties, including the taste, the smell, and the darkening, although I've noticed it seems to take several days to darken.

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silverlifter
14 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

I'm glad to know for sure, although would be interested in seeing the word from Lamy.

 

Thiago emailed them at the beginning of last year for confirmation; they never responded.

Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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By permanent I really just mean resistant to water and fade resistant enough to endure for a reasonable period of time. Total fade resistance isn't needed, just enough that I can be sure that the writing won't completely disappear or become unreadable within a lifetime. 

 

I'm entirely uninterested in forgery or attempted removal permanence (bleach etc.). Though alcohol resistance is probably useful for archival reasons (and the occasionally glass of wine spill). I'm not going to be writing anything anyone would be interested in forging or falsifying. 

 

As for MB Permanent Blue, at least the modern pigment based one; I generally find this to be too wet as well. At least in my MB 149 Calligraphy it lays down way too much ink, although it also manages to railroad a little as well. I would love to find a range of pigment inks that weren't too wet, but I haven't seen them yet. 

 

Iron Gall inks do generally seem to be the best bet. Unfortunately they don't come in a very wide range of colours, which is part of what I'm hoping for (otherwise I'd just stick to Salix for everything). 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, loganrah said:

By permanent I really just mean resistant to water and fade resistant enough to endure for a reasonable period of time. Total fade resistance isn't needed, just enough that I can be sure that the writing won't completely disappear or become unreadable within a lifetime. 

...

As for MB Permanent Blue, at least the modern pigment based one; I generally find this to be too wet as well. At least in my MB 149 Calligraphy it lays down way too much ink, although it also manages to railroad a little as well. I would love to find a range of pigment inks that weren't too wet, but I haven't seen them yet. 

 

Iron Gall inks do generally seem to be the best bet. Unfortunately they don't come in a very wide range of colours, which is part of what I'm hoping for (otherwise I'd just stick to Salix for everything). 

 

Pigmented inks involve physical particles in suspension, so it is to the ink maker's benefit to use a higher surfactant load to ensure smooth operation through a variety of feeds, which, by necessity, will make them relatively wet IME, though they obviously don't feather or bleed as much as the super wet dye-based inks. 

 

As for the variety of colors, Platinum has the entire range of Classic Inks, and while they might not be the absolute driest, they will probably perform well enough for you, and they do have a number of interesting colors. I can also confirm that they have a high enough IG load to at least be reasonably permanent. I think KWZ has a number of colors as well, but I can't vouche for the IG load in their light IG inks. 

 

Of course, none of the IG inks of which I am aware will be able to provide a lifetime of permanence in the presence of strong UV. However, all the standard or higher IG load inks are likely to provide a lifetimes worth of fade resistance inside of a closed notebook, I would think based on what I have seen. I have seen reports of fading with R&K Salix even in closed notebooks, but it wasn't clear just how much and how significant that fading was with respect to the IG content, nor what the storage conditions were. 

 

It's worth noting, as well, that a significant number of dye-based inks are likely to provide a lifetime's worth of fade-resistance in a closed notebook as well, and so I would not worry about using such inks for your case, either, as some of them are reasonably water resistant as well, though probably not as reliably as IG inks. 

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A Smug Dill
1 hour ago, loganrah said:

Iron Gall inks do generally seem to be the best bet. Unfortunately they don't come in a very wide range of colours,

 

Cult Pens lists 21 different colours in KWZ Ink iron-gall inks. Even if you say, blue is just blue regardless of whether it's IG Blue #1, IG Blue #3 or IG Blue #6, discounting the ‘duplicates’ there would still be 12 colours. Platinum makes six in the Classic Ink line; and then there is its standard Blue-Black ink, which is also iron-gall.

 

How many different colours do you need? Obviously there's going to be at least an order of magnitude more colours in non-IG dye inks, but trying to get the same degree of latitude of choice while enjoying the benefits of permanence (or waterproofness, or defence against forgery) was never even remotely realistic.

 

When it comes to pigment inks, Platinum makes four, Sailor makes more than ten — Kiwaguro, Souboku, Seiboku, and eight STORiA — and that's without including limited editions such as the Disney Princess ink set, and PenBBS makes quite a few.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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silverlifter

I can't find it at the moment (I may have to take another photo and reupload it), but I have posted a photo of Parker Quink Turquoise in a cheap notepad with notes written in the late 1980s. Still legible, if a little faint.

 

For almost all ordinary usage, standard inks and paper will be fine. If you go to IGs, irrespective of what people say about UV or bleach, the words will outlast you and the next two or three generations of your family.

 

If you are writing the next constitution, or a manuscript that will go on to win a Booker, sure get the ISO ink. In pretty much every other scenario, almost any ink will do, and IGs and pigment inks will give you that additonal peace of mind that if your basement is flooded, all those journal entries will be preserved for your adoring and grateful great grandchildren.

Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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silverlifter
1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

When it comes to pigment inks, Platinum makes four, Sailor makes more than ten — Kiwaguro, Souboku, Seiboku, and eight STORiA — and that's without including limited editions such as the Disney Princess ink set, and PenBBS makes quite a few.

 

Theres also the R&K Dokumentus line, in a number of colours, which is also ISO certified. Those inks, of which I have only used the dark blue, are if that can be regarded as an exemplar, exceedingly well behaved.

Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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shostakovich

I find the De Atramentis blue and dark blue permanent inks to be very good, and in my Pelikans and Cleo Skribant they have good flow, (which are also ISO certified). However, some may find them a bit too wet if they prefer a very dry ink. It all depends of course on the nibs (I mostly use fine) and the paper, as well as other things like the filling system.

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Graf von Faber-Castell  are dry. They are water resistant in the sense that a grey line remains in case of spillage.... :)

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