"Generic" Bock#8 nibs

[Sharad Pratap]

@mke - maybe bock should make a steel version of their #8 nib too,I mean they already make it in gold and titanium....might as well make it in steel too.

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, mke said:

> but it's a #10\#9 nib

 

That is nice but requires another pen. I really would like to have replacement #8 nibs for my Bock #8 pens.

 

MB 149 with an adapter.

[HartGummi]

2 hours ago, Sharad Bhadauria said:

@mke - maybe bock should make a steel version of their #8 nib too,I mean they already make it in gold and titanium....might as well make it in steel too.

Bock probably would if a customer demanded enough units. 

[Sharad Pratap]

@HartGummi - Maybe they would.

I think people like myself want bigger nibs made of steel which are a bit affordable.People with bigger hands need bigger and affordable nibs to write with comfort without getting any cramps.Most of us cant afford #8 gold nibs for daily writing,especially in school and colleges.

[HartGummi]

9 minutes ago, Sharad Bhadauria said:

Most of us cant afford #8 gold nibs for daily writing,especially in school and colleges.

Most pens with #8 nibs (at the moment) tend to be quite expensive, so not exactly aimed at students. 

 

I really want a good torpedo pen with a Bock #8 nib but the price is offputting. I hope Kanwrite makes the nib you were talking about. Even better if they offer it with Bock/JoWo compatible housing.

[Sharad Pratap]

@HartGummi - That is why I myself am trying to procure some #8 ambitious nibs so that i can get a big ebonite eyedropper pen made by ASA pens or Ranga pens.

[HartGummi]

32 minutes ago, Sharad Bhadauria said:

@HartGummi - That is why I myself am trying to procure some #8 ambitious nibs so that i can get a big ebonite eyedropper pen made by ASA pens or Ranga pens.

ASA is selling Gama' Masterpiece with a 40 mm nib. I got the pen but it left a lot to be desired. The section had not been modified to accept Ambitious' 40 mm nib. 

I had to fiddle with it to make it set properly.

Pity Ambitious doesn't offer housings like Kanwite does. I have been sending emails to them about their gold nib but they haven't bothered to send a reply.

[Karmachanic]

35 minutes ago, Sharad Bhadauria said:

That is why I myself am trying to procure some #8 ambitious nibs so that i can get a big ebonite eyedropper pen made by ASA pens or Ranga pens.

 

We're muddying the waters. That would be the 40mm nib, no? You'll note that Ambitious does not refer to it as #8.

 

The Ambitious 40mm is a longer, wider #6 nib, which fits a #6 feed;  that is feed with a 6mm base. A #8 nib sits on a feed 8mm at its base. The Ambitious 40mm will not fit a #8 Bock 350 housing/feed.

 

[Sharad Pratap]

@HartGummi - wow!     that must have been so disappointing.Atleast its working now.

[Sharad Pratap]

@Karmachanic - i guess you are right....my bad.I i will refer to it as a 40mm nib from now on.Mentioning it as a #8 nib might actually lead to misinformation.Thanks for reminding me.

[mke]

> MB 149 with an adapter.

Hmmmm????

 

A Bock #8 Titanium 107 Euro (just checked)

A Bock #8 14k Gold 185 Euro (just checked)

A Bock #8 18k Gold $250??

 

An MB 149 used (the only way to get a MB#8 nib) is around $300-400.

I guess I will wait for someone making #8 steel nibs in Bock housings.

[mke]

@Sharad Bhadauria

> maybe bock should make a steel version of their #8 nib too

 

That would hurt their earnings. They want to sell their gold nibs. I guess they will only start selling such nibs if other makers go ahead and sell them. As soon as they see that there is additional business, they will step in.

 

Bock will probably make you such nibs now if you buy a lot of several thousands.

 

 

 

[mke]

@HartGummi

> Most pens with #8 nibs (at the moment) tend to be quite expensive

 

Some penturners do not charge more (or just a little bit) for a #8 (Jowo or Bock) pen without nib. The nib itself, however, makes it expensive. That would be drastically reduced if they could sell steel nibs with it.

[Sharad Pratap]

@mke - That makes sense.Maybe people with big hands should unite and start negotiations with Bock🤣.

[Karmachanic]

Bock's primary market is pen manufacturers. How many of those currently make pens that carry a #8? I know of only two at present. Onoto and Astoria. Conid is effectively out of business. Are there others?

 

What would it cost Bock to set up production of steel #8s? is there sufficient demand to offset that cost, and generate profit?

[mke]

> How many of those currently make pens that carry a #8?

You know there is a saying, if you don't show your customers what they didn't know they need, you are on the loosing side.

 

> is there sufficient demand

That is a hen-egg problem. If there are no steel nibs, many people do not want #8 pens because they cannot or do not want to afford gold #8. If there are #8 steel nibs, a lot of people would switch to such pens.

 

> What would it cost Bock to set up production of steel #8s?

They probably have the machinery for stamping out #8 nibs for tipping #8 nibs, don't they?
Actually, I heard that the steel #6 of Jowo and Bock are all outsourced to China and that they only make the gold nibs in

Germany. I don't know if this is really true or not. If true, this could be a hurdle to produce #8 steel nibs. I am sure, Chinese manufacturers do not have the machinery.

 

Conclusion: Good luck to the Indian producers.

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

If you look at my signature is a link to or about Bock.....you could ask.

 

With all the worlds best (& most) machinery in that quite large factory; they would not make even steel nibs in China and import them.

 

Lamy makes everything in Germany........nibs included. If a factory is properly mechanized, it will out produce cheap Chinese labor.

 

In Bock as far as I know is still family owned or controlled, why put one's Good Name at play with saving a single beer cost money per 10-15 steel nibs.

 

....some 25 miles from me on the Autobahn....you can google a look at it if you want. A town has grown up around it in the last 5-10 years. Before it was a set of single large buildings in the fields.

 

In the few pictures made by a couple of our guys, or released through Bock.....in they did not want Chinese cloning their machines, we don't get closeups.

The Germans found out, when they built a factory in China a second one was built with in two miles of it.....and as soon as trained, half the workers went to the pure Chinese counterfeit making factory................there is no patent protection in China.....very similar to the Japanese, which refuses you a patent for 12-18 months so their 'inventors' can come up with a way around your patent.

 

Why should Bock buy Chinese made 'German Iridium point' nibs, when they can make them themselves and don't have to import the 'iridium' from Germany, and can get special formulated small lot steel made for them by their customary German steel factory.

No matter where, transport costs have to be factored in. With in China plus air freight, or in Germany, with out air freight. And so on.

 

[A Smug Dill]

8 hours ago, mke said:

That is a hen-egg problem. If there are no steel nibs, many people do not want #8 pens because they cannot or do not want to afford gold #8. If there are #8 steel nibs, a lot of people would switch to such pens.

 

No, it isn't. It's only a hen-egg problem is there is no existing demand for a product at any non-zero (or non-trivial) price, and that someone other than the consumer have to create the initial demand — which usually involves producing and exhibiting tangible prototypes to make it easier for the would-be consumers to imagine what they would do with the final product and be convinced they want to buy the product when it is available in the market. (Things like Kickstarter and GoFundMe make it easier now than ever to sell ‘vapourware’, to non-experts who have consumer dollars to spare and need little convincing to part with them, before a proven and/or viable production process has been developed and implemented.)

 

What you're arguing is that there is latent demand that is not met because of a price barrier the consumer does not want to get over, as opposed to someone really wanting a steel #8 nib for its different qualities to that of a gold #8 nib, and is prepared to pay the same or more to get that want satisfied in the way a gold #8 nib simply can't. A manufacturer doesn't need to create (more of) a market for steel #8 nibs, when fountain pen users at large are prepared to accept and use #6 nibs it already produces, in order to capture revenue and market share; and if users are already buying #6 nibs because they need to write with something, even if for a relatively tiny proportion of users it's an unhappy compromise, there is no value in going to significant production cost and/or commercial risk to allow them an additional option or three with which they may be happier. Selling them #8 nibs instead of #6 nibs merely cannibalises one's revenue stream from the latter product line, and is of little net gain for the manufacturer, whose business considerations and profitability far outweigh any concerns of whether there are unsatisfied fountain pen users out there.

[Karmachanic]

10 hours ago, mke said:

> is there sufficient demand

That is a hen-egg problem. If there are no steel nibs, many people do not want #8 pens because they cannot or do not want to afford gold #8. If there are #8 steel nibs, a lot of people would switch to such pens.

 

Titanium #8 works for me.

I'd like a £150 pristine MB 138 OM.

"If wishes were horses ......."

[HartGummi]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:40 AM, Sharad Bhadauria said:

bout that big nib....they actually are working on a big nib,but it's a #10\#9 nib,in the owners own words. Infact they have been working on this big nib for almost a year now,they have ideas and plans for a new pen body for that nib too.

I looked at Kanwrite's Facebook page. They posted an image with a #6 and #9 nib put beside each other. This image was uploaded in 2018.

 

I hope "soon" falls in 2021.😶