Nibs Pre-Tuned

[eclectic2316]

On 1/6/2021 at 10:22 PM, sgphototn said:

Well-expressed. The lack of assurance that a high-dollar Visconti nib will work out-of-the-box is similar to buying a new Lexus without assurance the engine will run.

I'm also tired of being told by reviewers and others that bad nibs are just to be accepted and I should spend more money and time to have it fixed. That's bullcrap.

 

Costly pens should write. No excuses accepted.

I could not agree more.

Pens should write properly out of the box; period, full stop.

[eclectic2316]

On 1/7/2021 at 8:23 AM, MoriartyR said:

I don’t want us to create the impression that Nibs.com is the only good option for this service. Some other vendors have already been mentioned, and I would like to call out nibsmith.com (Dan Smith) who has tuned many nibs wonderfully for me and also frequently offers great discounts on his pens. He just delivered an Aurora 88 to me that is so sumptuous to write with that it is immediately my favourite pen and raised the bar on how I imagined a nib could feel. It is that good.

 

There was no assertion that nibs.com was the only good option for nib services.

[eclectic2316]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:47 AM, Detman101 said:

I've spent my entire fountain-pen life looking for the perfect flex nib. I've bought FPR, Noodlers, Kanwrite, Franklin-Christoph, Blue Dew, Click, a few independent sellers and even vintage pens(too small).

I finally gave up and sent the "Flex" 14k F-C nib to Gena Salorino (a well-known nibmeister trained by John Mottishaw) to have what I NEED done to make the nib perfect. It's truly the best method to get the EXACT nib performance you desire.

Thanks for sharing your positive experience regarding the perfect nib.

Much appreciated.

[eclectic2316]

On 1/7/2021 at 3:17 PM, TitoThePencilPimp said:

Ahh. I have heard the same reasoning from Australian members here. So I am assuming that tariff/shipping cost is a bit too much compared to members from the States? If so, then I can understand why a person in Australia would purchase from NIBS.COM.

My purchase from nibs.com resulted in receipt of a pen which wrote perfectly out of the box.

The 'hassle' and needless expense of sending pens back for adjustment is incredibly annoying.

[eclectic2316]

On 1/7/2021 at 3:49 PM, silverlifter said:

 

I don't understand. You quoted me, but it is unclear (to me) how your comment applies to what I posted. Who is "he"? And how does this relate to Nakaya?

 

On 1/7/2021 at 6:18 PM, TitoThePencilPimp said:

It is not that serious...

 

[eclectic2316]

Copy that . . . .

[sgphototn]

The best nib I own is a broad attached to the Yard-O-Led Grand Victorian. No other nib I've used comes close to it. The Pelikan M1000 has nice nibs, but can't match the YOL.

 

In second place is a steel JoWo broad attached to a Ranga 4.

 

Third place goes to an Italix Churchman's Prescriptor in a broad italic.

 

Then comes the Pelikan M1000 in medium and a 1.1 stub.

 

Good and bad are often relative to the user. However, if the Grand Vic hadn't written well out-of-the-box I would have raised hell.

 

 

[Writing Uphill]

9 hours ago, osokijack said:

 

I have the same issue here. I am glad your nib is cheap, I have two orders for a total of more than 1000$ and he barely reply to my messages. Now the orders are delayed again and after I tried to cancel my orders he disappeared.

 

 I am very concerned and disappointed. I have raised a claim with PayPal, hopefully I'll get my money back this way.

 

Please consider writing a review on his Facebook page. We should try to inform others to be careful.

 

Unbelievable that you can’t even cancel your order. At first, I felt bad about mentioning my experience, as. I don’t want to nock down a small business, but this does seem like a recurring issue. I guess word does need to get out.

 

I don’t have FaceBook. Are there bad reviews there? Can’t he control who posts? 

 

I did a web search on him, and not much comes up, but you can see info like what we are posting. Hopefully people considering ordering from him will find posts like this one before placing an order.

[terim]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:20 AM, Barry Gabay said:

Sailor nibs unreliable?   Maybe I'm just fortunate, but the more than 25 Sailor fountain pens I have purchased new in the past few years in a variety of sizes & models, but primarily KoP, have all performed flawlessly right out of the box. Have also purchased second-hand Sailors which also wrote wonderfully. 

 

We see a lot of Sailors in the collections we buy, some of them never inked, and I would echo this sentiment ..... the nibs are incredibly consistent and rarely require anything more than our usual minor tine adjustment.

[osokijack]

2 hours ago, Writing Uphill said:

 

Unbelievable that you can’t even cancel your order. At first, I felt bad about mentioning my experience, as. I don’t want to nock down a small business, but this does seem like a recurring issue. I guess word does need to get out.

 

I don’t have FaceBook. Are there bad reviews there? Can’t he control who posts? 

 

I did a web search on him, and not much comes up, but you can see info like what we are posting. Hopefully people considering ordering from him will find posts like this one before placing an order.

 

I don't like writing bad reviews either. I have ordered from the Nibsmith in the past and received my items. I was happy with the nib work and for this reason I have ordered again. But small businesses have responsibilities too and ignoring customers requests and emails is not acceptable. I guess ordering from him is a matter of luck. For me this is a deal breaker as I value responsibility and reliability more than nib grinding skills.

 

Most of his reviews on Facebook are positive in regards to his nib work. There are 2 bad reviews and they both mention him ignoring emails and refund requests. I am sure other people have problems with him too but don't write a review.

 

Given the circumstances it shouldn't be too difficult for me to get a refund via the PayPal buyer protection, but it's really sad.

 

 

 

[Honeybadgers]

I will raise the point that while I agree 150% that all pens should write out of the box (with at MOST a quick flush in soapy water and rinse because sometimes machine residues do get missed and dislodged and that's just a fact of life)

 

I will say that a LOT of people who bemoan pens aren't bemoaning that they won't write, but that they don't write to their personal preference. Case in point, the OP here accused SAILOR of unreliable nib QC. Sailor and pilot can arguably be considered to have the best mass market factory nib QC on earth. 

 

What everyone in this hobby needs to learn, in my opinion, is either to learn to "do your own oil changes" so to speak, and learn to use micro mesh and mylar to get the kind of nib feedback they prefer when they run into a pen that just doesn't play nice with them, or just be willing to spend $40 on Gena Salorino to make it EXACTLY how you like it. Again, I'm not advocating that pen companies have any excuse to make BAD nibs that DO NOT WORK out of the box, with a quick soap/water flush, and a regular kind of ink ( "if it won't write with waterman blue, the problem is the pen" ) but unless you're willing to flatly boycott a company that's flat out screwing you or others over (like I did with Jetpens and their appalling customer service) then for any major pen purchase, it's just prudent to set aside another $40 for a nib tune. If that pen is great, cool, put that $40 in a jar for your next pen.

[sgphototn]

13 minutes ago, Honeybadgers said:

I will raise the point that while I agree 150% that all pens should write out of the box (with at MOST a quick flush in soapy water and rinse because sometimes machine residues do get missed and dislodged and that's just a fact of life)

 

I will say that a LOT of people who bemoan pens aren't bemoaning that they won't write, but that they don't write to their personal preference. Case in point, the OP here accused SAILOR of unreliable nib QC. Sailor and pilot can arguably be considered to have the best mass market factory nib QC on earth. 

 

What everyone in this hobby needs to learn, in my opinion, is either to learn to "do your own oil changes" so to speak, and learn to use micro mesh and mylar to get the kind of nib feedback they prefer when they run into a pen that just doesn't play nice with them, or just be willing to spend $40 on Gena Salorino to make it EXACTLY how you like it. Again, I'm not advocating that pen companies have any excuse to make BAD nibs that DO NOT WORK out of the box, with a quick soap/water flush, and a regular kind of ink ( "if it won't write with waterman blue, the problem is the pen" ) but unless you're willing to flatly boycott a company that's flat out screwing you or others over (like I did with Jetpens and their appalling customer service) then for any major pen purchase, it's just prudent to set aside another $40 for a nib tune. If that pen is great, cool, put that $40 in a jar for your next pen.

Then why don't pen companies just charge $40 more to give you the assurance that your high-dollar will will write or they'll send a special courier to your home to pick it up, have it worked on, then couriered back to your home within 24 hours?

 

Sorry, your argument to have $40.00 to send to a nib meister (not counting shipping costs there and back, insurance, plus time delays running into months) is reasonable for a pen purchase doesn't hold water with me. I'm not playing that game so I don't buy Visconti, Stipula, and some other brands where it's pin the tail on the buyer.

[A Smug Dill]

54 minutes ago, sgphototn said:

Then why don't pen companies just charge $40 more to give you the assurance that your high-dollar will will write

 

There's a difference between the pen will write, as in put ink on the page consistently along the trails of the nib without shredding the surface of the paper, and that the pen will write the way the user expects and/or would like it to. How the individual customer would like something that is not made bespoke is not something that needs to be ‘respected’ and accommodated as normal retail practice.

 

56 minutes ago, sgphototn said:

or they'll send a special courier to your home to pick it up, have it worked on, then couriered back to your home within 24 hours?

 

I bought an Aurora 100th anniversary commemorative limited edition pen from Iguana Sell. The nib was defective, and so once Iguana Sell came to that conclusion (and without my pushing for it in any way), sent a courier to pick it up from my place of residence in Australia and ship it back to Spain.

 

Aurora's HQ in Italy was closed on extended ‘vacation’ at the time, and I elected not to wait or accept the one replacement nib Iguana Sell had in stock, so it promptly gave me a full refund. I absolutely cannot fault Iguana Sell's customer service there, notwithstanding that the order just didn't work out and I didn't end up with the pen I wanted. I didn't have to pay an extra charge of $40 or whatever to get the assurance that the pen will be fit for purpose and free of defects, and that I'd be properly looked after if it wasn't.

 

Your stipulation of “within 24 hours” is way beyond what the retail customer is entitled to decide or has the power to dictate. I want suppliers to respect my and other consumers' rights and entitlements, but also stay clear and firm on what isn't up to the individual customer to demand and get.

[sgphototn]

I was being some what factitious with the bit about 24 hrs, nonetheless, the sentiment is valid. 

 

I bought a Pelikan M1000 w/a broad nib. It was too broad for me, but it did write. I willingly paid for a nib meister to turn it into a 1.1 stub.

 

Had it not written, had nib problems, therefore being defective, that would have been the fault of the manufacturer and as such the manufacturer should have taken care of the problem at no cost to me.

 

To expect that I should come up with $60 plus to send it for repairs and assume that's the chance I take when buying a new expensive pen is not acceptable to me.

 

A nib should write, maybe not to my specific style, but it should write without the need of a self-hired repairman to make it do what it was advertised to do.

 

[Detman101]

2 hours ago, sgphototn said:

I was being some what factitious with the bit about 24 hrs, nonetheless, the sentiment is valid. 

 

I bought a Pelikan M1000 w/a broad nib. It was too broad for me, but it did write. I willingly paid for a nib meister to turn it into a 1.1 stub.

 

Had it not written, had nib problems, therefore being defective, that would have been the fault of the manufacturer and as such the manufacturer should have taken care of the problem at no cost to me.

 

To expect that I should come up with $60 plus to send it for repairs and assume that's the chance I take when buying a new expensive pen is not acceptable to me.

 

A nib should write, maybe not to my specific style, but it should write without the need of a self-hired repairman to make it do what it was advertised to do.

 

Wholly agreed!

[lionelc]

2 hours ago, sgphototn said:

To expect that I should come up with $60 plus to send it for repairs and assume that's the chance I take when buying a new expensive pen is not acceptable to me.

 

 

 

and that's it ... there will always be buyers who are more tolerant of risk for a variety of reasons, for example, the aesthetics of the pen material etc.    

[txomsy]

There is no way  (yet, that I know of) that any company will be able to know in advance what will please any specific given customer. The "Read my mind" service just doesn't exist. Much less the "read what I might be pleased of even if I am not aware of it yet" service.

 

That said, and as I also said earlier: one has to balance expectations. When I buy a cheap wine I know that: a) some wines may be cheap but consistently great, b) most will be awful and c) some may or may not, possibly depending on a number of factors including the phase of the moon, year, mental status of the brewer, whatever. But, iff I were to spend 100-100,000 USD on a bottle of wine, I wouldn't expect nothing short of excellent, and should the wine have any (perceived) blemish, I'd expect the sommelier to come back and change it with no questions.

 

That works both ways: if I sold a 100-100,000 USD bottle of wine, tasted it and knew it to be well, and a customer rejected every single bottle I bring, after the second or third I would assume the customer does not know what s/he wants, is a scammer or, at any rate, is not worth to me as a customer.

If a customer asks for red wine when I only have white, they order the white one and then reject it because it is not red, I would assume the customer is a scammer. Dot. Full Stop. No way.

 

I would believe that most people here would agree with that.

 

 

Now, that said, in the FP world: sellers offer you a variety of choices. If you want an italic and the seller clearly only offers stubs, I do not think they have any obligation to grind it. If you buy an F that is 0.35mm and you want it thinner, I do not think they should either. Etc.

 

And that is, I believe, what honeybadgers was referring to. If you want it tuned to your personal taste, then save up your $30 for Pablo at FPnibs, or $40 or $100 depending on whom you are sending it to, and if the nib doesn't perfectly fit your desires, get it ground.

 

Which is not to say that if a pen company sells a "writing" implement that does not properly write, they shouldn't answer. Just like wines, I wouldn't expect a Chinese/European/Indian/Japanese/USA company selling a 1.5-15USD pen to pay for return, regrind and re-mail. It is unrealistic. I may trust some companies to be more consistent and order from them, and I will bid my risk with the others. But for a $100-$10,000 pen, first, I would not order white wine if I want red, or a BB  if I want an Italic, and expect to get what I do really want because I want, because I won't. But I wouldn't expect either anything short of excellence: if the nib is scratchy, the tines misaligned, the flow inconsistent, or any other blemish, at a minimum I would expect the company to take full responsibilities, own up, and go to any stretch to replace it.

 

If I buy anything  here (EU), I know I am protected for a specific time, for free returns and for defects. I cannot return a red car I ordered three months later because I no longer like the color, but deity help them if I find a factory defect and they don't fix it. Of course if I buy it in China (even through eBay) then Chinese law applies and I may not enjoy that much protection.

 

Iguanasell cannot do otherwise, they know that under EU law they are responsible. As far as I know, Pelikan will exchange your nib freely in the first 30 days (obviously only within the range they offer), Montblanc will re-tune a bespoke (Calligraphy) nib if they're defective (and even so there is a thread on FPN on regrinding MB calligraphy nibs, but note, not because of their QC).

 

What I cannot understand is how can Visconti or other EU-based FP companies get away selling defective products, nor how comes anyone complains in a forum instead of requiring them to own up. In these cases, much as the company has a responsibility, I cannot but also blame the customers who let them get away with it.

 

Again, YMMV and maybe you are used to be unprotected in your country, but something produced in EU must abide by EU law. And if you're based on a fully capitalistic country, I cannot fathom why don't you "vote with your money" which is the base tenet of such systems. Unless you are getting a compensation otherwise (e.g. by being able to display a useless luxury item to assert your social position, but then you no longer want an FP as much as a status symbol).

 

A $1000 pen has likely a $300+ profit margin, and the retailer has enough room to replace the odd defective one if needed. Plus, if the retailer got it for, say $500, likely the maker makes a $150+ profit and can cover replacing an odd item for any retailer (at an even lower cost as the factory enjoys cheaper prices from distribution channels and can fix and recycle the item). Even for a $100 pen, a $30 margin allows the seller to mail an odd replacement that they will get refunded/substituted by the factory in the next batch.

 

Of course, if the retailer is in a country with not so strong protections, then it will make more sense for the retailer to do nothing and keep all the profit. Unless the buyer "votes with his money" and stops buying from them.

 

Any way, as long as the nib behaves as described, I do not think one can complain, and if you want something they don't offer, your only option is to tune it yourself or have someone do it for you, also knowing in the process you will void any warranty. And if the item is defective the seller/maker should be made liable.

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

Much less the "read what I might be pleased of even if I am not aware of it yet" service.

 

If only Apple in the Steve Jobs era also made fountain pens, haha!

 

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

Iguanasell cannot do otherwise, they know that under EU law they are responsible.

 

That may be; but organising for UPS for pick up the item from my place of residence in Australia, to be shipped back to Europe on a pre-paid service label, was new to me. Most retailers would, at best, offer to reimburse me for postage once I've done all the legwork of packaging and labelling the stuff, take it to the post office myself, pay for it upfront and get a receipt (which means I have to make sure to take lots of photos, and every piece of cross-referencing information shown checks out), then ‘claim’ it back; the obligation for free return of defective products can be fulfilled that way. I raised the Iguana Sell example precisely because, to me, it went above and beyond the minimum required action, and the fellow forum member to whom I was replying called out specifically, “send a special courier to your home to pick it up.” There is a lot of leeway between respecting a customer's legal entitlements, and being considerate of his/her convenience and minimising the impact and hassle to him/her outside of those.

 

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

As far as I know, Pelikan will exchange your nib freely in the first 30 days (obviously only within the range they offer),

 

As would Parker; but nevertheless Newell Brands (which has a local office in my state) made me send the pen back to it at my own expense — apparently not the case with how it deals with customers in Europe or USA — and then failed twice to deliver a replacement nib that is fit for my purposes, in spite of my having shown them what I expected (and what was possible out of a Fine Italic nib by way of writing sample sheets) and that it claimed all the nibs (other than F and M) are handmade in France by in-house technicians on demand only. The postage for having to return the pen twice to its local office cost me $40 that was never factored into the expected total cost of acquisition, and I'm still no closer to satisfaction with the pen I bought; so Parker is one brand I'll never entertain buying again, after it squandered its opportunity to redeem itself on a ‘flagship’ product after five or so other disappointments I've had with it over the years.

 

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

Any way, as long as the nib behaves as described, I do not think one can complain,

 

In the case of my Parker Duofold Centennial, the XXF or needlepoint nib with which Parker replaced the original F nib (even though I asked for a Fine Italic as my first preference) wrote broader than the F nib, and the second time I sent it back it replaced it with a supposedly FI nib that writes more like a medium-to-broad stub (when I've already experienced what Parker's Fine nib width means).

[txomsy]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

In the case of my Parker Duofold Centennial, the XXF or needlepoint nib with which Parker replaced the original F nib (even though I asked for a Fine Italic as my first preference) wrote broader than the F nib, and the second time I sent it back it replaced it with a supposedly FI nib that writes more like a medium-to-broad stub (when I've already experienced what Parker's Fine nib width means).

That I would class as not behaving as described. And XXF nib should write way thinner than an F.

 

As for Apple and Jobs... may be that's what's needed, visionaries in other markets, such as FP.

[A Smug Dill]

30 minutes ago, txomsy said:

That I would class as not behaving as described. And XXF nib should write way thinner than an F.

 

Alas, by the time Parker had swapped in the not-behaving-as-described XXF nib, Amazon Australia as the retailer who sold me the pen no longer has any obligation to me under consumer law; there was no party from whom I could pursue a refund at the point.

 

I sent the pen back to Parker to be fixed and, like I said earlier, it failed me a second time (at non-zero cost to me, and taking another several weeks).