Calling All Lamy 2000 Skeptics (Current and Former)

[es9]

I believe Dan Smith also sells them with a variety of nib options.  

[AL01]

3 hours ago, Checklist said:

 

No, not with a 2000 within a 6-hour drive (one-way).  I'd rather not contribute to Bezos' Behemoth, so I'm thinking about buying from the Goulets.  They will fully refund the order unless I ink up the pen; considering that I'm questioning the pen's aesthetics, that's probably good enough for me.

 

 You need not contribute, just return it no matter what!

 

 I have heard nothing but good things about the Goulets.

 

 Do let us know how everything goes. 

[Audog]

I have been reading this with interest. I should say that I LOVE hooded nib pens, my old Parkers are by far my favorites, and the Aurora Duo-cart is a good everyday carry pen, but I am particularly fond of my Lamy 2K's. I can't put my finger on exactly why.....Style? Feel? Nib? I find myself inking, and reaching for my 2K's more than any other pen (and I have quite a few ). There is just something about the Lamy 2K that feels "right" to my hand and writing style. I have EF/F/M and B nib 2000's, of the lot, I like the F nib one (that got dropped and nib bent ever so slightly). It now writes a line between F and M, with a great sweet spot. I considered sending it in for service/repair, but darn I like the way it writes....Just my 2 cents worth.

[Checklist]

@AL01, I will not be buying this pen for a few months, but I will update this topic when I do.  I'll be buying to commemorate a career milestone, which is projected to be in April.  Hard as it might be, I won't be jumping the gun on this one.

 

@Audog, I've grown to love hooded nibs, too.  Love my Parker 61 and 51, and the 2000 seems to rival the latter's popularity, hence my interest.

[AL01]

 

 No worries! I am happy for your milestone and wish you the best. 

 

 Just wonderin', what is your quick review on the Parker 61?

 

 I have tried to like the 51 in its various incarnations, but prefered the Super 21, (albeit I sold the pen some time ago.) Rumor has it that the nibs on the 61s are excellent.

[Checklist]

It's the best-looking pen I have, and I really like the capillary filler.  Takes it a few minutes to fill a cleaned and dried pen, though.  As for the nib, I have a fine or extra-fine that has some feedback, but not at all scratchy.  Still not my favorite nib, though; I prefer my 51 medium/fine, mostly because of the line thickness, though the 51 is a tad smoother.  Also had a broad one that I sold because it didn't suit my handwriting, and that was my only complaint.  Unfortunately I can't compare it to the 21, which I haven't ever tried.

 

If you're on the fence, a user-grade one is around $50.  Worth a try in my book.  Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

[es9]

1 hour ago, AL01 said:

 I have tried to like the 51 in its various incarnations, but prefered the Super 21...

 

I assume you've tried a 51 Special?  I ask because:

1. Like the Super 21, the 51 Special has an 'Octanium' nib rather than a gold nib.  I've tended to prefer the Octanium nibs myself, though I don't think I've ever tried an NOS/mint gold nib so my preference may be due to how the two nibs wear.  
2. The 51 Special and Super 21 are really similar in general, but I think the plastic on the 51 Special is considerably more durable.  I also think the collector system on the 51 Special might also be a little bit better; I am 99% sure it's the same one as on the full 51.  I am sure someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.  

 

EDIT: If you prefer the Super 21 maybe it's not worth trying to make yourself like the considerably pricier 51

[Glenn-SC]

5 hours ago, es9 said:

1. Like the Super 21, the 51 Special has an 'Octanium' nib rather than a gold nib.  I've tended to prefer the Octanium nibs myself, though I don't think I've ever tried an NOS/mint gold nib so my preference may be due to how the two nibs wear.

Can you explain the difference in how Octanium and gold nibs wear?

[Doug C]

I like mine a lot, but one thing not mentioned is that if you grip very close to the nib, the stainless section is a little slippery. Some people dont like the 'ears'.

 

Also, peculiar to mine, the cap will not post. It falls off no matter how firmly it it posted

[silverlifter]

2 minutes ago, Doug C said:

Also, peculiar to mine, the cap will not post. It falls off no matter how firmly it it posted

 

That's definitely a defect. If it is still under warranty, I would ask for a replacement.

[bayindirh]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:40 AM, Checklist said:

I'm thinking of getting a Lamy 2000, but I'm not sold on the design, particularly the "brushed Makrolon" look.  There are no nearby pen stores, so I'm stuck with pictures online, which can only show so much.  Are the striations as obvious as they look in pictures? 

 

More generally, what reasons do (or did) y'all have for being skeptical of the 2000?  Were they showstoppers?  Were they overblown?

 

I was very skeptical about 2000 at first. Its design was odd. It was a piston filler (possibly higher maintenance), the material was old, the capped state wasn't attractive, the nibs were broader and its grind is unique. There was no grip, etc.

 

Then I got one...

 

When you get it out of the box, the brushing is very obvious, but not for long. Some of it is dust. Other ones quickly blacken with contact. Also it looks much pretty in natural light than in photos. The design looks, and smells 60s, but not out of touch. It's a timeless design. The uncapped pen is very nice looking, ergonomic, and has a statement albeit a very underrated, almost understated tone.

 

The pen is surprisingly light for its heft, with large ink capacity. Hooded nib doesn't dry out, doesn't shout gold since it's plated. The grind is wonderful, the pen is wet. Grind smoothes itself in 3-4 days and it becomes something higher.

 

Then you discover that makrolon is magnetic to human flesh, it's addictive. You reach to that pen first most of the time. You want to feel that nib and have that experience. The pen is not fussy though, doesn't crave for attention. It's a super-sealer pen. Doesn't dry out when left to its own terms. It's patient. Waits for you to use it.

 

Then it silently becomes one of your grail pens, if not the one pen you like more than others.

[Aether]

High price of 2000 is related to how much more better this is than Safari or Studio? Or just materials cost?

[silverlifter]

8 minutes ago, Aether said:

High price of 2000 is related to how much more better this is than Safari or Studio? Or just materials cost?

 

Platinum plated gold nib. Piston filler. Brushed makrolon and stainless steel body. Spring loaded stainless steel clip. Much more intricate assembly. It all adds up.

 

And yes, it is a demonstrably better pen.

[AL01]

7 hours ago, es9 said:

 

I assume you've tried a 51 Special?  I ask because:

1. Like the Super 21, the 51 Special has an 'Octanium' nib rather than a gold nib.  I've tended to prefer the Octanium nibs myself, though I don't think I've ever tried an NOS/mint gold nib so my preference may be due to how the two nibs wear.  
2. The 51 Special and Super 21 are really similar in general, but I think the plastic on the 51 Special is considerably more durable.  I also think the collector system on the 51 Special might also be a little bit better; I am 99% sure it's the same one as on the full 51.  I am sure someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.  

 

EDIT: If you prefer the Super 21 maybe it's not worth trying to make yourself like the considerably pricier 51

 

 My 51s and 21s have come and gone. I never liked them, unfortunately, which hurts because I was born and raised in Wisconsin... (I like Sheaffers more.)

 

 Yes, the "Lucite" body of the 51 is much more durable than the polystyrene body of the Super 21, but I never liked the way acrylic pens feel in my hand. I just prefer a "silkier" plastic, whether it be celluloid, polystyrene, or the (unknown to me) plastic on the vintage and modern Pilot Elites. I have disassembled my Super 21, and still have a picture of its collector somewhere. i would rather not post it here as it would further derail the thread further. The collector in the Super 21 is the same as those in later 51 Aerometrics, (they are injection molded instead of machined.)

 

 I did own a 51 Special, and thought the "suspension" of the nib was different than the 14k nibs on regular 51s. The octanium nibs feel a little "stiffer" than the 14k gold nibs which are more willing to provide "vibrations" to the user. As always, YMMV and the tipping composition on both nibs are the same.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Aether said:

High price of 2000 is related to how much more better this is than Safari or Studio? Or just materials cost?

 

 Materials, complexity, and, (ideally) QC and tolerances. It is always best to buy from a discerning authorized retailer so you can have the best experience possible with the 2000.

 

 (And again, these are my opinions. Others have experienced otherwise...)

 

 EDITS: My gramma'!

[Karmachanic]

25 minutes ago, Aether said:

High price of 2000 is related to how much more better this is than Safari or Studio? Or just materials cost?

 

There's a $22,000 MB in Classifieds  😱😱😱

[es9]

6 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

Can you explain the difference in how Octanium and gold nibs wear?

The tipping looked more impressive to me on the octanium nibs under a stereo microscope, but based on an above comment that’s probably idiosyncratic. 

[HartGummi]

10 hours ago, Aether said:

High price of 2000 is related to how much more better this is than Safari or Studio? Or just materials cost?

Lamy 2000's nib is a tiny hard nail so the price cannot be justified by the platinum-gold nib.

The marginal improvement in writing experience diminishes with increasing price. There is only so much you can get out of a pen. The 2000 is on the wrong side of utility-price curve but that is true for all flagship pens.

 

Why is it expensive? It is the flagship, that is all.

[Aether]

Much thanks for this explanations. ☺️

[bayindirh]

37 minutes ago, HartGummi said:

Lamy 2000's nib is a tiny hard nail so the price cannot be justified by the platinum-gold nib.

The marginal improvement in writing experience diminishes with increasing price. There is only so much you can get out of a pen. The 2000 is on the wrong side of utility-price curve but that is true for all flagship pens.

 

Why is it expensive? It is the flagship, that is all.

 

Actually Lamy 2000's nib is not that small, and it feels like a nail because of the hood:

 

This nib is very comparable in size to older Cross 14K gold nibs which are also similar in design. These nibs are also very wet and has a nice flex to it.

 

Full hand-assembled construction and inctricate QA also adds up to the price of course but, the nib is a bit more than you see.

 

Also writing experience can change a lot from pen to pen. It's not related to price. You can't get the experience of an upturned inlaid from any other pen, regardless of price. So "There is only so much you can get out of a pen." is highly subjective.

[HartGummi]

29 minutes ago, bayindirh said:

These nibs are also very wet and has a nice flex to it.

Lamy has flex?🤨

 

29 minutes ago, bayindirh said:

So "There is only so much you can get out of a pen." is highly subjective.

Marginal utility does diminish.

You may desire a pen badly enough to spend a lot of money on it but that isn't how you should measure utility. I suspect the user who asked the question has similar thoughts as I, else he would not have asked that question.

 

31 minutes ago, bayindirh said:

Full hand-assembled construction and inctricate QA also adds up to the price of course but, the nib is a bit more than you see.

I like the 2000's  nib but there is no point in using gold to manufacture it. Its characteristic comes from the grind which would remain the same even if the nib were made of steel.

33 minutes ago, bayindirh said:

Actually Lamy 2000's nib is not that small, and it feels like a nail because of the hood:

 

Sorry, I have developed a habit of calling gold nibs "tiny". It is meant to be tongue in cheek.

They do not have enough gold in them to justify the price.