How Does Noodlers Determine Archival, Permanent

[arcfide]

24 minutes ago, Tweel said:

 

I wasn't aware of that.  What are some examples?

 

 

Platinum Sepia and some pigmented Reds are relatively quick to fade, I think. They might fade slower than some other reds and sepias, but they certainly don't appear to be nearly as color/lightfast as the pigmented blues and blacks. 

[Tweel]

I'll have to watch out for that.  I only have a couple of pigmented inks, and Sepia is one of them 😕 .

[arcfide]

23 hours ago, Tweel said:

I'll have to watch out for that.  I only have a couple of pigmented inks, and Sepia is one of them 😕 .

 

Well, I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think they're instant fading inks or anything like that. It's just that if you look at the long term fade tests that have been done around here, they *do* fade, which is in stark contrast to some of the other blue and black pigmented inks, which for the most part, just ... don't. MB, Sailor, and Platinum Blue and Black pigmented inks, for instance, as far as the main line goes, appear to be highly fade resistant, even among the best of the bunch across the board. So, I don't know if I would call the pigmented brown, green, and reds out there fundamentally "bad" in that respect, and they are probably even objectively pretty good compared to their competition, but they just aren't going to be on the same class as the black and blue inks. That's true for Noodler's fade resistant dye-based inks as well in that color class. It's more, I think, to do with the colors and inherent difficulties in those shades. 

 

Unless you're absolutely needing them for long term archival projects at the lengths and under conditions in which typical inks show demonstrated failures in durability and longevity, I don't think I would personally be too worried. And you could always get a few samples of other inks of similar shades in other colors and do a light fade test under your own conditions to see if they hold up well enough for your needs. 

[Intensity]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:02 PM, Tweel said:

 

I wasn't aware of that.  What are some examples?

 

 

Sure, Platinum Sepia Brun, as mentioned above, and Lennon Tool Bar Plastic Sky (a kind of green-turquoise), off the top of my head.  Not all pigments are photo-stable, even if they are highly water-resistant.

[sketchstack]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:28 PM, SeeksAdvice said:

With regard to "freezeproof" ink.  That's a bunch of bull.  ...It froze solid.  So solid, after bringing it inside, I could unscrew the cap and hold it upside down with nothing coming out.  Let me tell ya, -8F real temp and -24F windchill isn't that cold for up here in winter.  After the bottle froze solid, it never really did ever properly go back into suspension. 

 

According to Noodler's, their inks made after 2006 are not meant to be freeze proof; rather they are meant to be freeze resistant. 

[SeeksAdvice]

So, why the continued claims of made for the coldest environments on earth?

 

I guess he just likes his puffery.

[OleJuul]

5 hours ago, sketchstack said:

 

According to Noodler's, their inks made after 2006 are not meant to be freeze proof; rather they are meant to be freeze resistant. 

 

The information on the JetPens site, presumably taken from Noodler's, says this:

 

Quote

Noodler’s Polar inks are specially formulated to resist freezing in temperatures down to -20°F. A thin icy film or slush may develop in the ink at temperatures close to this limit, but it won’t expand and can even still be written with

Minus 20°F = -29°C That is very cold. We get that here for short periods some years, but few places get that for any sustained periods of time. I think that's a very reasonable specification for a "freeze proof" ink. However, why that would be called "resistant" I have no idea. Obviously if you can still write with it, it's not frozen.

[langere]

Historian chiming in here.  Very interesting discussion!  

 

I work mainly with 18th and 19th century documents in South America.  I continue to be amazed how well the inks that the writers of these documents used are readable, even after 200-300 years.  This is even with documents written in really out-of-the-way places, where I suspect that some might even have fabricated their own ink or only had access to cheap ink. Also, the paper has lasted as well, and I am talking about documents that have never been in formal archives (I work a lot in small villages in the countryside).

 

So - I have hope that many of the inks today will hold up even if they are not iron gall.  Certainly my grade books, which I have preserved since 1985, do not show much fading or change of color.  And I do not use iron gall inks (though lots of different brands of inks, including from Noodler's).

 

Erick