Clairefontaine Triomphe—Different From Standard Clairefontaine?

[Intensity]

I’m slightly confused about the “Triomphe” Clairefontaine paper, as it’s specified at the same 90g/m2 as the standard Clairefontaine paper in, say, blank or French-ruled notebooks. Is it actually different paper, with noticeably different ink behavior? Or is it the same paper, just in easy-to-remove-a-sheet gluebound blocks?

[nibtip]

All Clairefontaine (90 grs) papers are the same. Slightly smoother than Rhodia (80 grs) which belongs to Clairefontaine.

Better and smoother than Clairefontaine is Oxford paper. Which incidentally is also french. But products are made in France, Germany and China. Maybe elsewhere too. Black and red notebooks are made with Oxford optik paper.

 

Very easy to remove pages. I confirm.

 

What i don't like on Rhodia/Clairefontaine is that the two sides of the paper feel different. Not the case with Oxford.

Edited September 7, 2020 by nibtip

[Intensity]

Thank you very much for the clarification! I was under the impression that the premium Triomphe line used different paper. Today I was looking into specification and wondered if I had been wrong, which turned out I was.

 

And thank you for the pointer to the Oxford paper.

[RJS]

All Clairefontaine (90 grs) papers are the same. Slightly smoother than Rhodia (80 grs) which belongs to Clairefontaine.

Better and smoother than Clairefontaine is Oxford paper. Which incidentally is also french. But products are made in France, Germany and China. Maybe elsewhere too. Black and red notebooks are made with Oxford optik paper.

 

Very easy to remove pages. I confirm.

 

What i don't like on Rhodia/Clairefontaine is that the two sides of the paper feel different. Not the case with Oxford.

Smoother than Clairefontaine?!? Crikey. I've just started looking for alternatives to Clairefontaine primarily because it seems to be too smooth for many fountain pen/ink combinations....

[MHBru]

@rjs have you looked at Rhodia? it seems slightly less smooth that Clairefontaine. Are you looking for tablets or notebooks? I use Triumphe for letters because of how cleanly it separates from the binding. Not so true for Rhoida staple bound tablets. I am considering trying their A4 wirebound, tho. I've received letters written on it that have clean separations.

Edited September 24, 2020 by MHBru

[RJS]

@rjs have you looked at Rhodia? it seems slightly less smooth that Clairefontaine. Are you looking for tablets or notebooks? I use Triumphe for letters because of how cleanly it separates from the binding. Not so true for Rhoida staple bound tablets. I am considering trying their A4 wirebound, tho. I've received letters written on it that have clean separations.

The past 5 years I've mostly used Rhodia Webbie A5 notebooks, with the 90gsm Clairefontaine paper. I think they're great, and a clear step up about Moleskine. The format suits me as I like to take the notepads to and from work and on weekend trips.

 

The downside to them is how fussy they are with fountain pens- I have to use specific combinations of pen and ink to get a skip free experience. Any suggestions for an alternative to try (preferably for sale in the UK)? I don't mind if it is more expensive, so long as it's fountain pen friendly and is usable on both sides of the page. Thanks!

[Runnin_Ute]

RJS-

 

Try putting a sheet of copy paper, blotting paper or something Under your hand as you go down the page.

 

Clairefontaine seems to pick up hand oils and hang onto them more than some others. The pen then "skips" when you try to write over that area.

[abstract49]

RJS-

 

Try putting a sheet of copy paper, blotting paper or something Under your hand as you go down the page.

 

Clairefontaine seems to pick up hand oils and hang onto them more than some others. The pen then "skips" when you try to write over that area.

Not with only Clairefontaine, but with several other papers, I put a sheet of blotting paper [it could be any paper, but the blotter is there already] under my hand to avoid the skin oil so that writing does not skip on it.

[Intensity]

I use a regular paper towel under my hand with most paper. That said, some paper causes ink skipping even without skin oils present. Depends on ink and nib tipping. Clairefontaine is a more skipping-prone paper, as are some varieties of Kokuyo Campus paper, and some others.

[RJS]

Using paper under your hand does improve matters, but it still seems primarily an incompatible ink thing. For example Pilot BB or Visconti Blue never skip on that paper regardless of the pen they're in, while drier (or less lubricated?) inks skip lots even with a sheet of paper under your hand keeping oils away, if the pen has a smooth nib. I'd rather have less difficult paper, than one that requires lots of trial and error with new inks (I like buying lots of new inks).

[RJS]

Regarding the oil on paper issue- there was one Diamine ink, I can't recall whether it was Deep Dark Blue or Regency Blue (something like that, I can't seem to find it since I moved back to the UK), it would write just about ok for the first half of a page, but as soon as it touched a section of the page that my hand had made contact with it would entirely cease writing! A change of ink in the same pen (a Prera) and it was 100% fine again...

[A Smug Dill]

... but as soon as it touched a section of the page that my hand had made contact with it would entirely cease writing! A change of ink in the same pen (a Prera) and it was 100% fine again...

 

 

Don't forget that one could also change the paper; not all types of paper react to skin oil in the same manner. Some of the Japanese notepads I got from Daiso are apparently quite sensitive to it, and so is Rhodia Dotpad 80g/m² paper (which is somewhat coated) to a degree; but I doubt it would be the case with, say, Midori MD Cotton or some other uncoated paper.

[RJS]

 

 

Don't forget that one could also change the paper; not all types of paper react to skin oil in the same manner. Some of the Japanese notepads I got from Daiso are apparently quite sensitive to it, and so is Rhodia Dotpad 80g/m² paper (which is somewhat coated) to a degree; but I doubt it would be the case with, say, Midori MD Cotton or some other uncoated paper.

My first post in this thread was asking for advice on suggestions for an alternate paper, as I'm fed up how fussy Clairefontaine is. Like I said, smooth pens with certain inks tend to skip regardless of whether I touched the paper or not, which doesn't suite me. I don't happen to have particularly oily skin at all by the way. I'll have a google to check out the Midori paper, thanks. I'm preferably looking for a different A5 Moleskine esque notepad to try, but with good paper.

[brokenclay]

The past 5 years I've mostly used Rhodia Webbie A5 notebooks, with the 90gsm Clairefontaine paper. I think they're great, and a clear step up about Moleskine. The format suits me as I like to take the notepads to and from work and on weekend trips.

 

The downside to them is how fussy they are with fountain pens- I have to use specific combinations of pen and ink to get a skip free experience. Any suggestions for an alternative to try (preferably for sale in the UK)? I don't mind if it is more expensive, so long as it's fountain pen friendly and is usable on both sides of the page. Thanks!

 

I've noticed a difference between the paper in the Rhodia Webbie notebooks and the regular Rhodia tablets, and the latter seem to behave better - I've never had trouble with any pen/ink combination with the regular Rhodia paper. The only thing I don't like about it is how hard it is to tear the paper off the pad neatly. I'm talking here about the orange and black top-stapled tablets (A4) and side-stapled notebooks (A5).

[A Smug Dill]

Smoother than Clairefontaine?!? Crikey. I've just started looking for alternatives to Clairefontaine _‹snip›

My first post in this thread was asking for advice on suggestions for an alternate paper,

 

I didn't read that as asking for advice, but merely as your telling us what you've been up to.

[RJS]

 

I didn't read that as asking for advice, but merely as your telling us what you've been up to.

I'll quote myself, from what was in fact my second post here. My mistake

 

Any suggestions for an alternative to try (preferably for sale in the UK)? I don't mind if it is more expensive, so long as it's fountain pen friendly and is usable on both sides of the page. Thanks!

Edited September 27, 2020 by RJS

[RJS]

 

I've noticed a difference between the paper in the Rhodia Webbie notebooks and the regular Rhodia tablets, and the latter seem to behave better - I've never had trouble with any pen/ink combination with the regular Rhodia paper. The only thing I don't like about it is how hard it is to tear the paper off the pad neatly. I'm talking here about the orange and black top-stapled tablets (A4) and side-stapled notebooks (A5).

A few years ago I had one of their regular notepads, and indeed I don't remember it being so troublesome. I'll buy another...

[Intensity]

Wouldn't it be better to start a new thread asking for alternatives to Clairefontaine paper? This one is specifically about the difference between Clairefontaine Triompe and 90g Veloute from standard notebooks. If anyone searches for this information in the future, it'd be better in a dedicated discussion thread with appropriate thread title.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Intensity

[A Smug Dill]

I've noticed a difference between the paper in the Rhodia Webbie notebooks and the regular Rhodia tablets,

Are you comparing the cream-coloured 90g/m² paper in Rhodia Webnotebooks with the bright white 80g/m² paper in Bloc Rhodia pads and Dotpads?

 

The 90g/m² paper used in Bloc-R by Rhodia pads and also its Heritage line of notepads would be more similar to what's in the Webbie.

 

and the latter seem to behave better - I've never had trouble with any pen/ink combination with the regular Rhodia paper. The only thing I don't like about it is how hard it is to tear the paper off the pad neatly.

I don't find it that difficult, and I used plenty of those pads. Here's a photo of a Dotpad that I've just about used up, with the stub of the detached pages clearly in view:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/344512-diamine-china-blue-not-as-expected/?p=4361275

 

Actually, I have a habit of keeping the stacked stubs from finished Rhodia notepads for use as strips of scrap paper that is nevertheless fountain pen friendly, for when I need to test this or that. Here are some of them:

 

While the tearing at the perforations are far from perfect, I'd say the pages come off neatly >95% of the time.

[brokenclay]

Are you comparing the cream-coloured 90g/m² paper in Rhodia Webnotebooks with the bright white 80g/m² paper in Bloc Rhodia pads and Dotpads?

 

The 90g/m² paper used in Bloc-R by Rhodia pads and also its Heritage line of notepads would be more similar to what's in the Webbie.

 

 

I have had better luck with "Classic Orange & Black Pads" (https://www.rhodiapads.com/collections_orange_black.php) and "Side-Stapled Notebooks" (https://www.rhodiapads.com/collections_side_staplebound.php) than I have with "Webnotebooks" (https://www.rhodiapads.com/collections_boutique_webnotebook.php).