Efnir: Montblanc Permanent Blue

[LizEF]

Extra Fine Nib Ink Review: Montblanc Permanent Blue

 

This is review #38 in my series. Here's the YouTube video:

 

Post-recording notes: Cleaning: Pen flush and/or agitation / rubbing will be needed to remove all the ink from a demonstrator. If not a demonstrator, and not being obsessive about not contaminating the next ink you're reviewing, normal cleaning with a single rinse with pen flush should do it.

 

And here is a screen of the final result, for those not interested in the video:

Scan of Completed Review:

 

Zoomed in photo:

Absorbent Paper Closeup (puzzle paper like thick newsprint):

 

Lightfastness (after the writing dried, this page was run under tap water, then hung in a south-facing window for 2+ years; to my eyes, no color loss):

 

Screenshots also available on Instagram: @zilxodarap

 

Previous Review: De Atramentis Document Black.

 

Want to influence the inky sequence? Take the "next ink" poll.

 

Hope you enjoy. Comments appreciated!

 

(Completely spaced this morning! But didn't want to wait until Tuesday, so here it is late.)

[Tas]

🙂

[yazeh]

Two years! That's a factual foxy fact ! Good job, Liz, and don't worry, when the "fun" inks are done, we'll vote for the abandonned ones

[northvandave]

Thanks for this review. I keep a pen inked with MB Permanent Blue for envelopes and signatures that matter. It does show its shading on TR 52gsm, but is not what I would call a high character ink, not a ton of personality or complexity. It is hard to clean, as you would expect.

[LizEF]

 

 

Two years! That's a factual foxy fact ! Good job, Liz, and don't worry, when the "fun" inks are done, we'll vote for the abandonned ones

Yes, the lightfastness is impressive. Thank you. And I kinda figured it would be a case of having desert first and then settling for the vegetables rather than starving to death.

 

Thanks for this review. I keep a pen inked with MB Permanent Blue for envelopes and signatures that matter. It does show its shading on TR 52gsm, but is not what I would call a high character ink, not a ton of personality or complexity. It is hard to clean, as you would expect.

You're very welcome! Thanks for adding your notes as a long-time MBPB user - that's always helpful since my reviews are short-term use.

 

[Tasmith]

I found if I don't do a good rinse between refills, it will form a sludge between the nib and feed and clog up the pen. Found this out using it in my MB 146 the hard way. Took forever to clean out.

[LizEF]

I found if I don't do a good rinse between refills, it will form a sludge between the nib and feed and clog up the pen. Found this out using it in my MB 146 the hard way. Took forever to clean out.

Thanks! That's very helpful information.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Here is another ink I have in sample form....thanks for this review, because if it's hard to clean, I edge away.

[LizEF]

Here is another ink I have in sample form....thanks for this review, because if it's hard to clean, I edge away.

Well, pretty much all permanent inks are hard(er) to clean, and this one definitely wasn't the worst. And I am being really thorough so ink residue doesn't mess up the next ink in line. Still, can't blame you. I've pretty much settled on Seiboku and Souboku as my permanent inks and have no desire to find other alternatives

[A Smug Dill]

I've pretty much settled on Seiboku and Souboku as my permanent inks and have no desire to find other alternatives

 

 

You have such good taste.

[LizEF]

You have such good taste.

[max dog]

I heard Sailor inks aren't good for piston fillers. Causes them to go stiff, so I avoid Sailor inks in piston fillers. I've been using the MB Permanent Blue for years and it keeps the pistons nicely lubricated. I always flush the pen well between ink refills and never had sludging, staining, or any ill effects. Nice shading, well behaved, bleed proof on cheap papers and of course water proof.

It's my perfect go to permanent ink.

[Olya]

I heard Sailor inks aren't good for piston fillers. Causes them to go stiff, so I avoid Sailor inks in piston fillers. I've been using the MB Permanent Blue for years and it keeps the pistons nicely lubricated. I always flush the pen well between ink refills and never had sludging, staining, or any ill effects. Nice shading, well behaved, bleed proof on cheap papers and of course water proof.

It's my perfect go to permanent ink.

That is very much not true. I've used Sailor inks without a problem in various piston converters and pens. If that were true, they wouldn't work in Sailor pens, either. Sailor ink not working with Sailor products would be pretty disastrous, for any brand.

[A Smug Dill]

That is very much not true. I've used Sailor inks without a problem in various piston converters and pens.

I don't quite understand why some users imagine there is something fundamentally different, either functionally or mechanically, about a converter with a piston (especially one with a rotary driving mechanism) and a piston-filler pen that uses part of the hollow barrel as the ink reservoir. Yes, of course there is a difference in the quantitative capacities of the ink reservoirs; but what of the way the piston is constructed and driven, or how the plug moves along the cylindrical tube and draws ink into the latter's cavity by creating a vacuum? I'd even question whether the piston (plug and stem) in a PenBBS 309 piston-filler pen is more costly to the manufacturer to produce than the (scaled-down) piston in a converter supplied with a PenBBS 308. I bought a packet of PenBBS 'spare' parts -- and, if I recall correctly, the Chinese on the packet label literally means 'easily worn-out components', in other words 'consumables' and there's expressly little expectation of longevity -- and there are multiple units of either of those pistons; they don't look or feel any different to me in form or material, but only in size. There is nothing inherently more 'premium', functionally superior, qualitatively different, or precious about the physically larger piston.

 

As you quite rightly pointed out, whatever a particular ink would do to a piston in a piston-filler pen, it would also do to a piston in a converter; and I've not known Sailor inks in general to either impede the function or compromise the structural integrity of pistons in ink reservoirs over time.

 

Some piston-filler pens are more readily disassembled, to the point of being able to physically remove the piston and clean (or scrub) the inner wall of the barrel if 'necessary' or desired, and then lubricating the piston plug (or even the rotary mechanism, although I don't see the rationale) and reassembling everything. I have done that many times over with Wing Sung 3008, PenBBS 309 and even Aurora Ottantotto pens, whereas I haven't attempted it with either a Pelikan Mxxx or Sailor Realo; but I must conclude that it is not impossible or prohibitive to perform such maintenance on piston-filler pens as a rule of thumb. Equally, some converters (e.g. Platinum, Sailor, Wing Sung) are more readily disassembled than others (e.g. Pilot, Nemosine, Parker) for deep cleaning and maintenance in kind.

 

So, the supposed distinction between (what an ink may do to what makes up the ink reservoir in) a piston-filler pen and a piston-operated converter is just nonsense. It's not even a question of price or value of the object; the single Cross converter I just ordered for my (wife's) Peerless 125 cost more than a (genuine) Wing Sung 3008 and a PenBBS 494 -- both being piston-filler pens -- put together, so it makes no sense to categorically avoid putting Sailor (or even Noodler's) ink in piston-filler pens but not c/c-filled pens.

[LizEF]

I heard Sailor inks aren't good for piston fillers. Causes them to go stiff, so I avoid Sailor inks in piston fillers. I've been using the MB Permanent Blue for years and it keeps the pistons nicely lubricated. I always flush the pen well between ink refills and never had sludging, staining, or any ill effects. Nice shading, well behaved, bleed proof on cheap papers and of course water proof.

It's my perfect go to permanent ink.

Glad MB Permanent Blue works so well for you - always nice to find your perfect ink. And thanks for adding to the experiences in the thread.

 

I expect whoever thought Sailor inks aren't good for piston fillers mis-attributed the cause of some problem they experienced with a piston filler while it happened to have a Sailor ink in it. As Olya and Dill mentioned, if this were true, the inks wouldn't work for (some of) Sailor's pens either. Also, we'd hear it frequently, and the inks wouldn't be so popular / have such a good reputation.

[max dog]

I'm not talking about converters but rather integrated piston fillers like Pelikans and Montblancs. Perhaps Sailor would not go to the extra trouble of making their inks more lubricated for their pens like Montblanc or Pelikan would who's pens are mostly integrated piston fillers.

Edited September 2, 2020 by max dog

[A Smug Dill]

I'm not talking about converters but rather integrated piston fillers like Pelikans and Montblancs. Perhaps Sailor would not go to the extra trouble of making their inks more lubricated for their pens like Montblanc or Pelikan would who's pens are mostly integrated piston fillers.

 

Sailor has its own Realo models, in both the Profit and Professional Gear product lines, that are piston-fillers and sell for a premium on account of the filling mechanism. PenBBS 309 is a piston-filler model in which the interior of the barrel serves as the pen's ink reservoir, and yes, they are sold at higher asking prices than their model 308 kin. However, my point is that the term 'piston-filler' does not mean the pens are more 'premium', more precious, or use better (or alternatively, more chemically or mechanically sensitive) pistons than the scaled-down pistons in converters of the same brand; and the piston mechanism in the ink reservoir of a PenBBS 309 works exactly the same way a PenBBS-branded converter supplied with each PenBBS 308 does.

 

If it's just a question of price, in assessing whether a pen should be treated as more precious or handled with more care, then my entry-level Sailor Professional Gear Slim (which is a c/c-filler) is more expensive than a basic Pelikan M200. Let's regard piston-filler pens for what they are mechanically, as well as the larger ink reservoir capacity they offer, without unduly concluding that they are better or more precisely constructed — or, alternatively, more fragile — fountain pens.

Edited September 2, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[max dog]

That's certainly debatable about C/C vs integrated piston fillers. Fact is if a converter gets stiff or seizes you just throw it out and replace it with another $5 unit. Integrated systems are a bigger pain to resolve. When majority of the brands line are integrated piston fillers, they are likely to put more care into the lubrication aspect of their inks. Perhaps Sailor Realo and C/C would operate a lot smoother over time with Montblanc inks😁

[A Smug Dill]

Fact is if a converter gets stiff or seizes you just throw it out and replace it with another $5 unit.

Fact is that I disassemble my Sailor converters, by unscrewing the metal collar from the clear tube and then pull out the piston mechanism, for deep cleaning and applying (the tiniest amount of) silicone grease to lubricate the piston plug, all the time. The only converter I've had to throw out was a Pilot CON-50 that seized up with dried ink, and which I broke when trying to remove the converter from the gripping section.

 

Integrated systems are a bigger pain to resolve.

They could be, but does not have to be so as a rule. Like I said, I also completely disassemble my Wing Sung 3008, PenBBS 494 and PenBBS 309 pens — all having integrated piston-filling mechanisms and using the hollow barrel as the ink reservoir — all the time; they are no harder to service than rotary-driven converters. I'd be happy to take photos or even a video of me doing it. I've even done that to my Aurora 88 Minerali, after improvising and making a tool to aid disassembly.

 

The Wing Sung 3008 costs less than half the cheapest new-from-authorised-dealer price I could find for a Cross converter, I have 26 pens of that model, and if one seized up and cannot be serviced with my skill, I'd just throw it out and replace it with another $5 unit.

 

There is nothing magical about piston-filler pens as a category and their integrated piston mechanisms. That's the point. If you want to bring the price of a pen into it, that's a different argument. If you want to bring the cost of servicing pens in their respective brands' authorised repair centres, that's a different argument yet again. I don't see the point of conflating different arguments to try and make piston-fillers sound more impressive or precious than they are as far as the mechanics and fragility of the filling mechanism goes.

 

However, if you're not comfortable (or just can't be bothered) with servicing a piston-filler pen or converter as required, that's perfectly fine by me; I'm not trying to argue you into doing so, but merely impressing upon other readers that there's nothing special about piston-fillers that ought to prevent them from using Sailor inks that they'd happily use in a c/c-filled pen.

[bone215]

Dill,

Good job.

Clear and concise.