Renaissance Wax

[Ron Z]

Only by making mistakes one can learn. So encourage people to take some risks to become experts themselves instead...

 

I respectfully disagree. While I agree that one should learn from their mistakes, one does not have to make mistakes to learn.

 

I do a lot of research before I try many things so that I avoid making mistakes. If the information is out there (and these days it usually is), it is possible to learn without making mistakes. How to safely remove spark plugs from an engine with an aluminum head. How to safely remove moss from an aluminum roof I can't walk on. How a pen is put together before I take it apart. I make it a practice to understand a pen before I go diving into trying to fix one. Do I make mistakes? Sure, but I try not to even though I'm frequently called on to do unusual repairs.

 

There are many things that I've learned to do without just diving in. There isn't a tradesman that I've encountered who has gotten away from a job for which he was hired without me learning something from them. Ever. Even now I ask questions from other people about pen repair, or call technical support for information on a product.

 

One of the reasons why I spend so much time answering repair questions is to share what I've learned, to help others to avoid making mistakes that could damage their pen(s) so that they can have a successful repair.

[Carrau]

 

One of the reasons why I spend so much time answering repair questions is to share what I've learned, to help others to avoid making mistakes that could damage their pen(s) so that they can have a successful repair.

And many of us are ever so grateful, Ron, that you do.

[CS388]

Thank you, Ron Z. Always appreciate your work.

 

No experience of Renaissance Wax, but, after reading this thread (and associated links) I'd summise (for myself):

This stuff was invented by museums to protect precious artefacts - but they found it to be detrimental, so stopped using it?

That's sufficient argument for me not to try it.

Great thread, though. Thanks

 

Of course, totally respect those who choose to use it, also.

 

Stay safe, all.

Edited July 18, 2020 by CS388

[Freddy]

 

As I remember that study referenced specific antiquities, though I could be wrong, so I'l stick to my many years of experienced use as a "hobbyist" rather than your judgement as a so-called "expert".

 

And to be clear I'm not advocating that anyone should or must use it, just passing along that my long term and continued use has been nothing but positive.

 

As far as fountain pens I have found that it has been a great help in mitigating the ring marks commonly left on pen barrels from both posting and capping. I've also found that when applied to pen sections it makes there clean-up after inking quicker as well as keeps any ink from creeping onto the section when left in a vertical pen holder, yes I've had a couple of older pens that occasionally did that with certain inks. And with ebonite pens it has been great to keep them looking perfect and shiny without any discoloration from inks, handling or water used in cleaning. Currently all of my vintage and modern Pelikans, Pilots, Montblancs, Kawecos, Sheaffers and various ebonite pens have been waxed and I couldn't be happier with them.

 

So...the haters can hate, and if you don't want to use it...don't. Just giving my "experience" and opinion. YMMV.

Yo...Pal....Your subjective experience is just that and nothing more......'Tis your prerogative to do whatever with your property.

The stuff in question is known to bad..{ you know ..................... }....You personal experience in the scheme of things is Just that...Nothin' more

I have been aware of this garbage for more than two decades....Having dealt with the sole US rep in the '90's....

"so-called "expert" haters hate Fascinating choice of woids....................

 

First do no harm........................

 

Fred

 

Cum finis est licitus, etiam media sunt licita.......Herman Busenbaum 1600-1668,

Medulla Theologiae Moralis {1650}

 

The end justifies the means..............................................

[Freddy]

continue lookin'....................................................................

Edited July 18, 2020 by Freddy

[Freddy]

See above................................

[Zookie]

I have, for quite some time, been using a plastic polish made for headlight lenses. It works fine, but I never considered the long term effects of usage.

Has anyone else tried this?

Any opinions?

[Wahl]

And many of us are ever so grateful, Ron, that you do.

+ 1

[Ron Z]

I have, for quite some time, been using a plastic polish made for headlight lenses. It works fine, but I never considered the long term effects of usage.

Has anyone else tried this?

Any opinions?

I would assume that it depends on the plastic, and a chemist (in the US use of the word) or plastics expert would be better qualified to give a difinative answer. But we know that the polycarbonate of a headlight and the celluloid of a pen are very different. The first much more stable and chemical resistant than the later, so it is perfectly safe for your headlights.

 

I have seen chemicals trigger rather rapid degradation of celluloid. I cleaned a pen with a cleaner at a friends house after my first pen show to get the ink off - and the clear celluloid section of my shiny and first Oversize Balance had all but crumbled by the next morning. That decay went on to spread to the barrel over time, and I ended up replacing both section and barrel. I still don't know what the magic ingredient was, but I have been much more cautious since then! (talk about learning from mistakes!)

 

As David Nishimura's comments noted, one problem with wax on a celluloid pen is that it keeps the celluloid from breathing. We know from experience, both with pens and pocket knives, that celluloid releases small amounts of nitric acid. If in open storage where that can dissipate, one shouldn't have problems. If stored in an air tight environment like a closed case, the released gas can trigger decay of celluloid. Wax it is believed, keeps the nitric acid from escaping..... hence the concern with using wax.

 

One last comment. I have another chemistry professor friend (handy when you wonder about reactions with the materials we encounter) who is a pen collector, and who used to sell and use Rennaissance wax. As he looked farther into it, more questions were raised about it's safety with vintage pens. So when he told me that he had quit using it, I listened.

[Zookie]

Thanks Ron. I see that I'll have to look into this more.

[pen2paper]

Just including the cited article was from, “jaic” a journal of object conservation practices.

Ron gives the best, “from the inside-out” damage discovery reports. :-)

[cunim]

What about beeswax? ASC makes a big deal out of polishing their Arco with beeswax as part of the production process. From this discussion I am getting the impression it is best to stay away from all waxes with celluloid. I get that but plastic is ... well, plastic. Is there as much reason to avoid wax with that? I expect plastic pens to turn up in archaeological digs an eon from now.

[pen2paper]

All plastics not being equal, maintaining stability depends on environment & handling.
Ancient textiles & metals are less an issue than plastics, astronauts suits breakdown for example.

[Ron Z]

 

 

I expect plastic pens to turn up in archaeological digs an eon from now.

 

Not celluloid, and not Italian celluloid! I shouldn't be making blanket statements like that. There's good celluloid, like the stuff Sheaffer and Parker used, and bad celluloid. A number of the modern Italian celluloids have proven to be unstable. The Visconti Voyagers for example, and some of the Omas material, like the Galileo are prime examples.

 

Lucite, polycarbonate, many acrylics, and of course metal with lacquer finishes, and even Sheaffer's Forticel and Esterbrooks made of cellulose acetate. But I don't like the idea of waxing any nitrocellulose, which is what the generic "celluloid" covers.

[FredRydr]

I might try using it on the kitchen floor.

[JonSzanto]

The article that has been mentioned can be found at the following link:

 

WAX COATINGS ON ETHNOGRAPHIC METAL OBJECTS: JUSTIFICATIONS FOR ALLOWING A TRADITION TO WANE

Many years ago, new to the hobby, I also heard of Ren Wax and got a small container. I applied to precisely one pen, a sterling silver Sheaffer Targa. Within a year I regretted it, as it had become darkened and hazy. It took a long time of polishing with a cotton cloth to remove the waxy surface. I had been careful to use only a very, very small amount to begin with. Shortly thereafter I came across David Nishimura's page, as well as the above cited article.

 

I really wish I would have seen that information before making the mistake of using Ren Wax.

 

Lastly, another Thank You to Ron Zorn for years of helpful information and advice on pens and more. What a fine resource and person.

Edited July 26, 2020 by JonSzanto

[FountainNewbie]

after reading this I'm tempted to remove some renaissance wax I have already applied on vintage pelikan 400... rather than using chemical removal, would it work if I try removing it using micro-gloss (liquid abrassive - polisher)?

[Ron Z]

after reading this I'm tempted to remove some renaissance wax I have already applied on vintage pelikan 400... rather than using chemical removal, would it work if I try removing it using micro-gloss (liquid abrassive - polisher)?

Micro-gloss is good stuff, and I use it. A good polish with no wax and no chemicals to harm plastic. But I don't know if I would use it to try to remove Renaissance wax or how effective it would be. You'd have to be very careful on the trim, because even though very, very fine, it is still an abrasive so would take plating off if rubbed enough. The wax is there, I would leave it alone and consider it a lesson learned.

[Tseg]

So we have some articles that identify Ren Wax not good on celluloid and personal testimony it is not good on silver. We also have testimony it has been used on other pens with positive effect. I also have used Ren Wax for years on resin pens with very positive results. I think it is good to share personal experiences but one also must be discerning in separating facts, speculation and hearsay. Not to pick on David N.'s summary but it is not obvious he has proven experience based on the phraseology used.

 

On balance, it is likely that waxing of celluloid pens will do more harm than good when it comes to long-term preservation. It should also be noted that synthetic waxes may also be problematical, in that they are almost impossible to remove fully. This becomes a serious issue when these wax coatings inevitably turn cloudy as they age. Renaissance Wax is no longer recommended for museum conservation for this reason, as it is a mix of natural and synthetic waxes.

 

Likewise, I very much value Ron Z's experience, but even his guidance seems more like speculation and hearsay vs. actual experience:

 

As noted, there are good reasons not to use wax on celluloid pens, any kind of wax including Renaissance wax. We used to use carnauba wax, but even that contains acids which could react in a negative way with celluloids.

There was a study a few years ago that showed that Renaissance wax is especially difficult to remove without harsh solvents, and even then some remained behind. The only thing that I use now is a polish that contains only a micro crystal abrasive in a water suspension - no wax or solvents

In summary, sounds like there is an element of risk using Ren Wax. With any risk one must ask, "is the juice worth the squeeze?". For me, using Ren Wax after a Polywatch Polishing on a resin pen makes it look like brand new, even after years of use. Maybe years into the future I or my descendants will rue the day I used Ren Wax. C'est la vie.

[Seney724]

So we have some articles that identify Ren Wax not good on celluloid and personal testimony it is not good on silver. We also have testimony it has been used on other pens with positive effect. I also have used Ren Wax for years on resin pens with very positive results. I think it is good to share personal experiences but one also must be discerning in separating facts, speculation and hearsay. Not to pick on David N.'s summary but it is not obvious he has proven experience based on the phraseology used.

 

On balance, it is likely that waxing of celluloid pens will do more harm than good when it comes to long-term preservation. It should also be noted that synthetic waxes may also be problematical, in that they are almost impossible to remove fully. This becomes a serious issue when these wax coatings inevitably turn cloudy as they age. Renaissance Wax is no longer recommended for museum conservation for this reason, as it is a mix of natural and synthetic waxes.

 

Likewise, I very much value Ron Z's experience, but even his guidance seems more like speculation and hearsay vs. actual experience:

 

As noted, there are good reasons not to use wax on celluloid pens, any kind of wax including Renaissance wax. We used to use carnauba wax, but even that contains acids which could react in a negative way with celluloids.

There was a study a few years ago that showed that Renaissance wax is especially difficult to remove without harsh solvents, and even then some remained behind. The only thing that I use now is a polish that contains only a micro crystal abrasive in a water suspension - no wax or solvents

In summary, sounds like there is an element of risk using Ren Wax. With any risk one must ask, "is the juice worth the squeeze?". For me, using Ren Wax after a Polywatch Polishing on a resin pen makes it look like brand new, even after years of use. Maybe years into the future I or my descendants will rue the day I used Ren Wax. C'est la vie.

I agree with you 100%

It seemed to me that autsinwft offered quite a bit of experience with the product in his posts (#11 & 18). It all seemed very creditable and I, for one, appreciated it. He was neither dogmatic nor disrespectful; all he sought to do was to share his experience.

 

But, what he had to say was "at odds" with the "expert's" (hearsay based) opinion; he was quickly (and I thought rudely) disparaged, in spite of his experience.

He tried to point this out, again in a respectful way, but his comments were met with disdain.

 

Now, here you come, also one with a lot of experience with the product.

 

Like it or not, there are clearly two sides to this matter and I appreciate hearing from those who have actually used it and been satisfied with their outcome. I also like to hear the opposite point(s) of view...but not when they are presented as though the "expert" is the ultimate authority, and especially when the "expert's" actual experience with it is limited.