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Tomoe River Paper Changing Manufacturing


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Is the new version still 52 gsm or are they calling it something else as it is thicker/heavier? I am confused on this point.

 

I have just tested a new Endless Notebook this is the 68 gsm paper which I believe is NOT the new version discussed here. I have a PFFP notebook from 2014 with the 52gsm paper. The Endless has white vs. a cream color in the PFFP...not sure how the colors normally compare but this is my observation:

 

The 68 is noticeably thicker (as you would expect). The Sheening is still good but noticeably less than the 52gsm. The 68 is not near as smooth, similar to 80gsm Rhodia maybe. There is less showthrough on the 68...but still quite a lot so doesn't really make much difference in my opinion. The same pens that bled through the 52 still bleed through the 68.

 

If someone knows where to buy the new version I am purchase some to test and compare.

Edited by Keyless Works
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What's mildly annoying is that I noticed this thread after responding in another one where someone asked about favorite writing papers. I mentioned Tomoe River. Of course, I might have done so anyway.

 

I'm around page forty-something in my current 480 page Tomoe River journal, the Nanami Seven Seas version. I have another four blank journals to use up after that. By that time, no doubt there will be plenty of reviews of the new paper, and I'm not going to bother to add to my hoard before it comes out.

 

I do like the lighter version of the paper, which permits a notebook with more pages. The show through is just enough to add character, not enough to be distracting.

 

The part of the description for the new paper that is most off-putting is "more drag", but I'd actually have to see how it feels to me.

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

 

- Benjamin Franklin

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How do the Seven Seas Notebooks compare with the Musubi Tomo folio A5 noteooks? I want to stock up just in case the change is worse than it sounds.

Do it - I've never seen a change that improves a notebook.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7260/postminipo0.png
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How do the Seven Seas Notebooks compare with the Musubi Tomo folio A5 noteooks? I want to stock up just in case the change is worse than it sounds.

 

I haven't tried the Musubi, so can't help with that. My gripe with the Nanamis is that the first sheet tends to be imperfectly bound, so that a little bit of it is sticking to the flyleaf. But this has been a relatively minor annoyance, and when I figure the price per sheet, they have seemed like a good deal. And I assume that it's the same paper, although perhaps I'm wrong.

 

The only other sellers I have tried for this were Paper for Fountain Pens, which had a nice hardcover journal but a bit pricier, and a couple of Amazon sellers who had pocket versions.

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

 

- Benjamin Franklin

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Do it - I've never seen a change that improves a notebook.

 

 

In the midst my recent spate of buying up Paperblanks notebooks at astoundingly good prices from Amazon, not having actually used one before, I started looking for reviews online of its paper quality especially with regard to "fountain pen friendliness"; and it seems that the paper used to be poor maybe a decade ago, but has improved markedly in the last few years. So far I've only tested its 85gsm paper (in the only one I bought with that paper weight, just to test it out; all the other journals have heavier paper), and it's pretty good. Therefore, I must say it's possible, and not entirely unknown in recent history, that a change has improved the notebook products of a particular brand, even though I personally don't have an earlier version against which to test and perform verification.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello the original post is gone. Did anyone copied the content?? If yes, can you share it, please?

Javier

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You can still find the original article on the Google Cached page.

 

1. Go to google.com and type "https://www.musu.bi/stories/2020-07-some-words-on-tomoe-river" (right-click this link and copy the whole address) in the search box

 

2. Click on the little gray triangle pointing down at the end of the link and select "Cached"

 

This will bring you to the previously saved version of that page with the original text. It's a pretty long article, so I can't copy-paste it here (plus I shouldn't out of respect for the publisher).

Edited by Intensity

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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You can still find the original article on the Google Cached page.

 

1. Go to google.com and type "https://www.musu.bi/stories/2020-07-some-words-on-tomoe-river" (right-click this link and copy the whole address) in the search box

 

2. Click on the little gray triangle pointing down at the end of the link and select "Cached"

 

This will bring you to the previously saved version of that page with the original text. It's a pretty long article, so I can't copy-paste it here (plus I shouldn't out of respect for the publisher).

Thank you, interesting reading.

amonjak.com

post-21880-0-68964400-1403173058.jpg

free 70 pages graphic novel. Enjoy!

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Wow, what have we become? Seriously, a blog post about paper had to be taken down because it caused too much "turmoil"? When I clicked on the first link and it said the story was taken down because it caused too much turmoil, I think I cracked a rib from laughing so hard. Reading the cached page now . . . .

 

Thank you though, it inspired me to add to my existing stock because as noted in previous comments, notebooks do not ever seem to change for the better.

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Well! To be fair, here is the space where we obsess about minute differences in ink colors, trying to match discontinued colors, talking about nib tuning etc. Tomoe River has a real cult status in the fountain pen community, so any changes to it are going to cause a big stir. Many people buy it for the sheen, and the new version does not show sheen as well, so that can be an effective downgrade for some customers. I personally buy it for the shading and how the colors show up on the paper, and it remains to be seen how the new paper compares to the old. My order of A5 plain sheets got delayed, but it should arrive within the next few days. I presume it will most likely be the updated variety, and then I can compare it to the previous version for myself.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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@Intensity I don't think the 'question' or issue is whether we obsess over minutiae to do with products related to the hobby, but whether we need/ought to be protected from fear of extrinsic change (or 'loss') — and silent and/or expressed inner turmoil — that enlightening information published had to be withdrawn.

 

For what it's worth, I think it absolutely the prerogative of the author and/or publisher of the original article to withdraw it as he saw fit; and for that reason I support his decision (either way), even though I feel hobbyists ought to be trusted to deal with their own fears and concerns as best they can, and it's more helpful to tell them about coming changes (especially if they have already happened) that there is no question of someone's inability to avert, prevent or reverse.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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I agree, that information should have remained. It was a service to the fountain pen community. Unless there were legal reasons for which it was taken down, such as a possible hit to sales of Tomoe River products made with post-manufacturing-change paper. Given how huge the manufacturer's production scale is, from what I've read, they probably don't care enough about marginal changes in usage by fountain pen hobbyists for just one of their products.

Edited by Intensity

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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I agree, that information should have remained. It was a service to the fountain pen community. Unless there were legal reasons for which it was taken down, such as a possible hit to sales of Tomoe River products made with post-manufacturing-change paper. Given how huge the manufacturer's production scale is, from what I've read, they probably don't care enough about marginal changes in usage by fountain pen hobbyists for just one of their products.

 

 

They are free to do as they wish with their site, no?

 

Perhaps Musubi found that their paid for bandwidth was being used up, and prefer to conserve it for the use of their business, as is their right. :)

Edited by Karmachanic

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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I agree, that information should have remained. It was a service to the fountain pen community. Unless there were legal reasons for which it was taken down, such as a possible hit to sales of Tomoe River products made with post-manufacturing-change paper. Given how huge the manufacturer's production scale is, from what I've read, they probably don't care enough about marginal changes in usage by fountain pen hobbyists for just one of their products.

My thoughts exactly.

 

I have nothing to do with the Musubi site or people, so I don't know what they experienced, but if it was anything like this thread, it was not worth deleting the post. The post was informed and nicely written.

I think the cached site might disappear once a new cache is made, so be aware that that info might be gone at some point as well.

 

Be that as it may, Tomoe has published a statement a few hours ago:

 

"In order to maintain stable quality and supply of Tomoe River, Tomoegawa has recently changed its manufacturing process. We believe it's beneficial to our customers. We're committed to providing high quality papers to meet your needs. Background: In Dec. 2019,Tomoegawa has ended Tomoe River production at the old machinery and moved to new machinery since Apr. 2020. Product Name: Products made at the new machinery has suffix -N after the grammage (e.g. -52N). It can be distinguished from the old machinery products. Thickness: Typical thickness of 52g/m2 paper is 60u for both old and new machinery. There's no change. Ink bleed through: New machinery papers maintain low ink bleedthrough characteristic. In some type of oil and water based pens, new machinery papers show better performance. Ink feathering: New machinery papers maintain low ink feathering characteristic. Uniformity of pulp fiber orientation: New machinery papers have better uniformity of pulp fiber orientation than the old machinery papers. Friction pen erasability: Friction pen can be more easily erased on new papers because the coating surface of new papers is stronger than the previous one and less crinkly. Stiffness: New machinery papers are relatively stiffer than the old machinery papers. As a result, when a large number of sheet is accumulated, it tends to have larger thickness than the old machinery papers."

 

https://m.facebook.com/1927946697427918/posts/2639822839573630/

Edited by Olya
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This is really good news then. This is what I took away from the FB post:

 

  • We can tell what is new and what is old by the "N" designating the new machinery paper.
  • If they've only been producing on the new machinery since April 2020, then any retailers with stock in the US anyway are likely the old version still since COVID has slowed everything down coming from Japan.
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My most-recent purchase of Tomoe River 52g loose leaf paper in A5 size has arrived today from Japan. It was sent via DHL Express and was sent out last week. I'm a bit confused about the nomenclature of the new paper vs. old paper, as there is no "52" in the product number on the packaging.

 

Specifically, my paper has "TMR-A5P-W" product code. I assume "TMR"=Tomoe River, "A5" is the A5 size, "W" is for "White", not sure what "P" is for, Paper?. The only "52" is in the "52g/m2" designation in 2 locations.

 

So how would one know if this is the original -52 or the new -52N version? Perhaps the new paper actually has a very different product code for the loose leaf packs and is called something like TMR-A5P-W-52N?

 

Scan of my paper packaging, received today:

YyRrxWe.jpg

 

P.S.: the two comparison photographs on the Facebook page show a noticeable difference in how the inks are laid down on the paper. The original paper shows thicker, more even lines for each respective line. The new paper shows thinner, uneven lines, like the ink had a harder time grabbing onto the paper. Some of the difference might be in the writing surface: if the "old" paper was on top of other TR paper, it would have been softer to write on vs. a single sheet on a hard surface. Hopefully the two papers were used under the same conditions, however.

 

Quick montage of the Facebook photographs to show them side-by-side:

HhuEeI6.jpg

Edited by Intensity

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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