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Ebay Seller Deceptive Ad - Pen Leaks Badly - Advice?



GreenMountain

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Mysterious Mose

Another reason to refrain from leaving negative feedback is that most of the time when you do that, the other party will leave negative feedback for you! As I wrote, that would prevent you from doing any business on eBay.

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude

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inkstainedruth

Another reason to refrain from leaving negative feedback is that most of the time when you do that, the other party will leave negative feedback for you! As I wrote, that would prevent you from doing any business on eBay.

 

The one time I filed a dispute on eBay, I got positive feedback from the seller (probably because I paid right away). Of course they may have given the feedback before I filed the dispute -- but they already knew I wasn't happy and were just a-holes about it....

Pretty sure my feedback rating as a buyer is still 100%, although I haven't looked recently.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainederuth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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GreenMountain

 

I doubt it'll be possible to 'repair' the broken nipple... There are people who probably can machine the part for you, but that's likely more costly than the pen itself.

 

I wonder if there are other cheaper Pilot pens, like the Metropolitan, from which you can take the nipple part out and transplant to yours.

Yes, that's a good question. I happen to have a Pilot Metropolitan that I never use. I'd rather get a new converter nipple if possible; better than cannibalizing a perfectly good pen that someone else might like.

 

I'll post the question on the repairs thread.

 

(Ha ha, my dear Motor Head has offered to machine me the part, which would really be going too far!)

 

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Personally I'd return it. Even with a new part it may turn into a headache and a pen you can't use. You could open a case with ebay and return it that way which I think is probably the safest option. Be courteous in what you write as the seller may not have been aware of the problems with the pen when they sent it.

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GreenMountain

Well, I've asked eBay to get me a refund. Sent pics of the broken cartridge nipple. We'll see.

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Mysterious Mose

"Seller cant leave negative feedback any longer, been that way for 5+ years"

 

That's good to know. :D

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude

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GreenMountain

FYI, I received a full refund from eBay, having sent a pic of the broken cartridge nipple and a pic of the broken cartridge nipple.

(And by the way, the seller could not have been innocently ignorant of the pen's defective part as it sells only watches and pens on eBay. Had the pen actually been tested with a cartridge or converter to verify that the pen "worked well",the pen would have leaked.)

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Thanks very much for the answers. Glad I didn't say "xxxx is a scumbag liar and cheat"!

 

With respect to posting a link to the add, the pics wouldn't show anything. Per the guidelines I couldn't say "leaks badly" is not equal to "works very well".

 

I'll just see what eBay will do. Seems to me I should get a full refund for an unusable pen.

 

eBay always sides with the buyer. You should be able to make a return request and get a refund. You may have to pay for the shipping label yourself ....

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FYI, I received a full refund from eBay, having sent a pic of the broken cartridge nipple and a pic of the broken cartridge nipple.

 

(And by the way, the seller could not have been innocently ignorant of the pen's defective part as it sells only watches and pens on eBay. Had the pen actually been tested with a cartridge or converter to verify that the pen "worked well",the pen would have leaked.)

If I am tracking with what I have read as this thread has progressed:

 

  • 1) You have your refund but have been blocked from being able to leave negative feedback on eBay
  • 2) Our "oh so politically correct" FPN Forum forbids you from "outing" the seller.

 

And so this seller lives on to scam more unsuspecting buyers.

How nice......... :rolleyes:

 

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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inkstainedruth

No, you aren't the only one. Ironically, I ran across an old thread a couple of days ago that got resurrected and nobody (moderator-wise) was blinking an eye about "outing" a seller.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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After cleaning it, I tried to ink it up with both a converter and a cartridge. Neither would seat in the pen and the ink leaked out all over.

 

 

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, it is possible that he/ she tested the pen by dipping it in ink and writing with it. Being satisfied with the result, the seller might have thought it writes well, without trying out how it would write with a cartridge inserted. I still think that where a significant defect has been identified (such as a leak), a full refund should be offered, but I don't think that the facts, as presented, prove that the seller is a scoundrel. Whether or not the FPN rules support public shaming (and they don't), I consider that sort of behaviour uncouth. This matter should be resolved through the auction site.

 

What interests me is the reason for the cartridge/ converter not seating and the cause of the leak. I've bought a fair few cartridge fillers in my time and I can't say that I've ever had a problem with the cartridge not seating at all. Are you sure that you're using the correct cartridge for the pen? Where is the pen actually leaking from? It is worth exploring the precise cause of the leak to see if that can be addressed, assuming that a full refund can't be negotiated.

 

I did have an experience where I bought a 1970s cartridge filler as NOS and that leaked straight away. I couldn't work out where the leak was coming from until I realised that there was a hairline crack in the polycarbonate section insert (just where it changes diameter) that I only discovered when the crack opened up during cleaning (almost broke the polycarbonate). That wasn't the fault of the seller (it had been marked as NOS and that's what it was- it had not been marked as tested) and I accepted my fate. In that case, I effected a solvent repair with MEK. That worked well enough (fixed the break and stopped the leak), albeit that the MEK (as it usually does) caused the polycarbonate craze near the solvent weld.

 

Ah and when I had a situation where I negotiated a partial refund for another pen that was not as described and I wasn't really happy with the value of the refund offered (less than what I asked for), I did not retaliate by leaving bad feedback. I had grudgingly accepted the amount offered to allow me to move on and I left it at that (I offered no feedback at all).

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At the end of the day it is Ebay, go in with your eyes wide open and expect that every now and again you will get shafted, you just hope that the processes are in place to protect the buyer.

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I do agree that it is a disservice to FPN members if the information cannot be communicated.

 

I'm no expert, much less a moderator, but the statements on this thread about name-and-shame seem a little bit like FUD to me. No moderator has posted a clarification on this thread. The rules are vague (probably intentionally) in their description of name-and-shame. I can think of at least one that got shut down, but I can also think of many more that have not. If it were me, I would risk a slap on the wrist by just describing the facts of what happened, and hope that if it did get shut down that I would at least be told how what I wrote was different/worse than the ones that didn't get shut down.

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GreenMountain

The answer to the question of why the cartridge or converter leaked, regardless of whether the converter and cartridge were the right size, is that the converter nipple had a cracked piece missing that left a hole in the converter nipple all the way down to past where the cart or converter was supposed to attach to the converter nipple. So even had the cartridge or converter been the correct size, which I'm told it was by experts in such pens on this site, the pen still would have leaked. And the hole in the converter nipple was not a crack, but a clearly broken and missing part of what should have made up the converter nipple. All I had to do to observe this problem was unscrew the parts of the pen with my fingers, and it was obvious that part of the converter nipple was broken off.

I do expect that a fountain pen advertised as "works well" with "minor surface scratches" should not leak like a sieve. And if proof has been offered that the pen has a broken part, then a full refund should be made. If someone wants to sell a pen as "works well as a dip pen" or "needs a converter nipple", that's fine. If someone wants to sell a pen as "tested only with dip", that's fine too. But "works well" for a fountain pen to me implies that it has been tested as a fountain pen and not as a dip pen.

Had the seller been ignorant as in sells odd lots, or said "I know nothing about pens", or not exclusively sold pens and watches, I might not have been angry at having been offered a pittance as a refund.

Do I give this particular seller the benefit of the doubt? No. I think it figured that it would try to make some money by misrepresenting the pen. It took the attitude "Just try to make me issue a refund" which is what eBay did, I imagine. Or, maybe eBay just eats the cost and calculates the cost of such refunds into the fees it charges all sellers and thus all buyers end up paying for sellers' mischief. I don't know.

In any event, I will continue to buy things from eBay since this is not the first time it has stood behind its sales on my behalf. And I will continue to escalate if I believe that a seller is being unfair.

Edited by GreenMountain
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  • 3 weeks later...
donnweinberg

Additionally, be advised that if you do open a dispute and it is resolved in your favor, you may not be allowed by eBay to post feedback. That happened to me several years ago with a seller with literally tens of thousands of transactions. I got my money back and was allowed to keep the pens (in my case it was that the seller did not included the promised cartridges and the "refill" was the one *in* the pen...). But I was NOT allowed to provide feedback -- which left me wondering who else had been in my shoes....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

I had a single experience like yours. It is Ebay policy that once a seller makes a "formal" complaint (e.g., nonconformance, damage, etc.), no feedback from buyer or seller is allowed. The complaint process places the transaction outside of the "feedback" context, and both parties are left to the decision Ebay makes, if the parties don't work out the problem by the end of 72 hours.

 

It is a wise policy, as sometimes an impatient buyer thinks there's a problem, but it turns out the buyer didn't read the item description or view the photos carefully enough, and the buyer did receive what was described and pictured. More reason why Ebay buyers should get in touch with sellers first before leaving negative feeback.

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inkstainedruth

In my case, I DID contact the seller. And was basically told "Don't like it? Send the pens back!" -- with insufficient time for me to try to find replacements (the pens were a graduation present and the graduation party was in about three days after the pens arrived) -- even if I had then been able to ship said replacements to the recipient. I was PO'd, and IMO, rightly so. The seller did not include the advertised pack of cartridges for the FP, and the "replacement" fill for the ballpoint was the one inside the pen. I bought in good faith, and they screwed me, IMO. And I don't care if they have thousands and thousands of transactions and good feedback ratings overall; I got screwed over, and they acted like it was a big joke. So I filed a dispute and got my money back and got to keep the pens and was able to then go to Staples and buy a pack of cartridges and a nice notebook for the graduation girl.

The joke is that they gave ME good feedback because I paid immediately. So if what you say is true, they can't now rescind that feedback, heh heh.

The other joke is that a couple of months ago they sent me a "discount" offer on another item that I had forgotten I was watching (I now, when I see something that the company is selling, IMMEDIATELY remove it from my watch list on general principle, but apparently forgot that item). And it wasn't much of a discount at that. So I responded by sending THEM a counteroffer: I offered them five bucks and if they didn't want to take it they could take my contact info out of their system....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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I had a single experience like yours. It is Ebay policy that once a seller makes a "formal" complaint (e.g., nonconformance, damage, etc.), no feedback from buyer or seller is allowed. The complaint process places the transaction outside of the "feedback" context, and both parties are left to the decision Ebay makes, if the parties don't work out the problem by the end of 72 hours.

 

It is a wise policy, as sometimes an impatient buyer thinks there's a problem, but it turns out the buyer didn't read the item description or view the photos carefully enough, and the buyer did receive what was described and pictured. More reason why Ebay buyers should get in touch with sellers first before leaving negative feeback.

 

I have had one instance where I opened a case against a seller, which was immediately resolved in my favor. When I tried to give feedback directly from the Purchase History list, I was not able to do so (because the item had moved off the regular Purchase History list and into, I think, Returns and Canceled Orders, which does not have a Feedback button).

 

Then, a could of days later I was leaving feedback for another purchase, and when I finished that feedback, that disputed item was on the list of items pending feedback. So I left him a negative feedback and 80 characters worth of why. I would be interested if this has happened to anyone else, or if it was just a pleasant fluke.

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inkstainedruth

Interesting. Won't help in my case, because of the length of time since the dispute was filed (the recipient is now out of college and working, so it's been five or six years). But the seller remains at the top of my "Do Not Patronize" list. Even above the guy who slapped a pen I bought right back up as being "Oh, no, that's a different pen" and managed to sucker some other mark into paying MORE than I had for mine. Because that seller seems to have (fortunately) dropped off the planet -- but if you ever see me mention "that third-rate pawnbroker" in a post, that's who I mean. The scary part is that the guy was supposedly a man of the cloth.... :angry:

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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MBDostoevsky

Hi Folks,

I just bought a used pen on eBay that had the description "works very well". After cleaning it, I tried to ink it up with both a converter and a cartridge. Neither would seat in the pen and the ink leaked out all over.

 

The seller offered me less than half the value of the pen + shipping, without return shipping. I refused the offer and told them that I would be opening a case with eBay and also leaving them a bad review.

 

Any advice, other than to buy only from known sellers going forward?

 

Out them by name here? Is there a thread in FPN where complaints and praise is found?

 

Your bad review will be enough for other careful buyers... no need to out them by name here...

 

I have had similar experiences where I bought pens from some prestigious sellers only to find later that their 'restored' and 'resaced' meant without a sac. I have many pens that were neither restored nor resaced though the seller(s) claimed them to be.

 

My mistake was that I did not try them. I was moving to another country and I had no time. I think it got me bad... now that I am in a place where pen parts and sacs are almost zero...

 

Lesson is to buy from sellers who have good positive reviews for pens.... and if there are negative reviews do read them for any deceptive practices...

 

Open an eBay case... if the seller is offering you something of a discount... it means that he/she already knew what product he/she was selling... you can't let him/her get away with this

Edited by MBDostoevsky
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