Montblanc 149

[meanwhile]

Thanks for the review and all other posts and opinions in this thread.

Readings made me definitely sure - today, the fifth of July 2007 is the day. Finally I´am going to afford myself a brand new Montblanc Meisterstuck 149. Yes, I am going to pay for it over 500 EUR. Yes, I know that they are some quality problems and that a lot of you just thinking I am crazy. No, I am not rich, it will cost me app. 30% of my month income. No, I am not a snob, the pen will be used only at home, I will not expose myself with the white star. For daily writers there are my unique VP, L2K, and a pair of pels 200.

I just want to have classic designed pen in my collection and no other OS pens in this price rang did not satisfed me. More, a lot of them are extremly ugly. For me the shape of 149 is perfect. So it goes.

 

I know, maybe I will be disappointed if some problems will occur, but - it is my own and subjective decision - like the majority of pro et contra MB opinions are.

 

Now (my wife is just awakening and she is going to drive me to the local MB dealer), let the god helps me on my Way of the cross

 

Well, that's a good reason to buy an MB. I hope you get one like Lloyd's!

 

Buying an MB in Europe arguably makes more sense than in the US. European countries tend to have much stronger consumer protection laws than the US. In the UK I could force MB to give me an effective warranty of 7 years if I bought from a conventional shop, although I might have to take them to small claims court (a cheap informal court where you act as your own lawyer) to do this. Most people aren't aware of exactly the rights they have - knowing can save you a lot of money on repairs and taking out extended warranties.

[sleek_lover]

I have to say, with no intended disrespect, that I have my doubts about Mr. Dubiel's quantitative estimate of MB's quality. I'm sure he examined many FPs but I seriously doubt if he examined even 1000 MB149's under his loupe AND, if he did, I doubt they were a representative sampling; they would (most likely) have been brought to him with other defects. When would he sit and analyze several thousand brand new MB149s? Most owners keep them (inked or uninked) and send them to MB if they need service.

 

I got to add a comment here...and I mean no disrespect to you, Lloyd, but you are dead nuts wrong.

 

I had the pleasure of talking to Frank at the Philly show just after the turn of the century. I have his repair manual. The man started repairing pens as a kid. Where did he get his "subjects"?? From the garbage piles of his city dump. He and his brother used to go there to find pens to fix. I asked him about this, and he stated, as a child of the Depression, if you didn't have the money, you made do. That was his way of making do.

 

So--if Frank stated he examined one googolplex MBs...I would accept that a truth greater than gravity. He suffered no fools and had no time for bullshi!.

 

Bill

[meanwhile]

I just found this post by Dubiel while doing a search on ink capacity:

 

 

 

Frank Dubiel

 

>So a very easy way to test. Take a pen and start writing. When dry

>count words ( actually i would just count pages ). It may burn your

>arm out, but what a way to go.

 

Not exactly. This is not a vaild test for real world usage. See Da Book.

Most pens will write an aprox number of words per day, say 500 as I used for Da

Book. A direct write out of total ink content at one time does not allow for

how the pen seals its ink, evaporation, the holding and return capacity of the

feed, etc. Then all pens vary so at least 2 or 3 indentical pens must be

tested and averaged. Finally to be vaild all factors such as ink flow and nib

design must be perfectly matched as possible, and tested against several other

pens. BTW--what is a word? A or antidisestablishmentism??? For best

results word length should average perhaps 4 letters. Now go forth and write

"I am testing this pen to see how long it can write." Thousands of times,

always using the same kind of paper (it absorbs ink ya know). ... and don't

forget to dot each "i." Boy, would all those dots make a difference. Sorry

bout all this, my days as a lab director are showing... For whats it worth

all this is exactly what I done for the tests in Da Book. Its rather easy if

you have no life. LOL Frank

 

So I suspect that if Dubiel said that 10% of mint MB's were broken he had taken a statistically valid sample. He was fanatical, fastidious, and scientifically qualified.

Edited July 5, 2007 by meanwhile

[Lloyd]

I have to say, with no intended disrespect, that I have my doubts about Mr. Dubiel's quantitative estimate of MB's quality. I'm sure he examined many FPs but I seriously doubt if he examined even 1000 MB149's under his loupe AND, if he did, I doubt they were a representative sampling; they would (most likely) have been brought to him with other defects. When would he sit and analyze several thousand brand new MB149s? Most owners keep them (inked or uninked) and send them to MB if they need service.

 

I got to add a comment here...and I mean no disrespect to you, Lloyd, but you are dead nuts wrong.

 

I had the pleasure of talking to Frank at the Philly show just after the turn of the century. I have his repair manual. The man started repairing pens as a kid. Where did he get his "subjects"?? From the garbage piles of his city dump. He and his brother used to go there to find pens to fix. I asked him about this, and he stated, as a child of the Depression, if you didn't have the money, you made do. That was his way of making do.

 

So--if Frank stated he examined one googolplex MBs...I would accept that a truth greater than gravity. He suffered no fools and had no time for bullshi!.

 

Bill

I have his repair book, too, and I was being quite sincere in saying "with no intended disrespect". However, if he obtained his samples of MB149 by scrounging around the dump, I think his estimate of initial manufacturing flaws would be grossly overstated. Who throws away such expensive items unless they are broken? Remember, if a person's parent passed away and left a FP, MB149s were one of the few that most non-FP users would know not to throw away due to ease of resale. In fact, in those days, MB repairs were free as long as the nib was in place; this only changed 10-20 years ago. On the other hand, if Frank went to several hoidy-toidy MB bouotiques and examined a large random sample of new MB149s with his 50x loupe with an effort to make an accurate initial quality assessment, I would believe this estimate.

 

I should add, as much as I love my 149, I doubt I'll ever buy another MB. I consider myself lucky to have such a stellar performer (I tried several Sailor 1911's and found flaws in each of their nibs so it's not as if I'm easy to please). Also, whether or not many MBs are delivered with micro-cracks, I do recognize that they are made of a fragile material. At least it doesn't discolor and turn brittle like Ebonite in sunlight nor deteriorate in water like casein.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Lloyd

[meanwhile]

..if Frank went to several hoidy-toidy MB bouotiques and examined a large random sample of new MB149s with his 50x loupe with an effort to make an accurate initial quality assessment, I would believe this estimate.

 

This does seem to be what he did.

 

I hope the vision of FD scowling monoptically at pen after pen, demanding "Bring me more!" gives some some comfort to those forumites who have complained in the past of rude and snobbish MB salesman.

 

I should add, as much as I love my 149, I doubt I'll ever buy another MB. I consider myself lucky to have such a stellar performer (I tried several Sailor 1911's and found flaws in each of their nibs so it's not as if I'm easy to please).

 

It's a 149? I thought it was a '6. Maybe I don't want to buy it after all - I'm probably going to give up even my Densho as a Too Big.

 

Also, whether or not many MBs are delivered with micro-cracks, I do recognize that they are made of a fragile material. At least it doesn't discolor and turn brittle like Ebonite in sunlight nor deteriorate in water like casein.

 

Cassein is terrifying! But it can be extraordinarily lovely - I remember seeing a cassein VP, of all things, on a custom binde maker's site.

Edited July 5, 2007 by meanwhile

[Lloyd]

As I said, I had a new 146 that skipped. After 3 attempt by MB service to correct this (each time with complimentary gifts of increasing value), they agreed to exchange it for a new MB149 with all its fancy packaging (nice box and ink). There was no extra charge for this upgrade and this MB149 is my best writer to date. I've been on a hunt for an equally pleasurable writer that is less expensive to replace and more durable. After trying Pels, Denshos, many vintage at the Boston show, Sailors, Lamys, etc, I've found my Pilot 743 which I love for many reasons. The 149 is still a slightly better pen TO ME but I'm not afraid to carry the Pilot outside the house and I love its soft & flexible nib.

[meanwhile]

Ok. Now I get it! It's really good to know that you can get this result of MB customer service. Do you have any tips for playing them the right way? Or did they spontaneously improve after that shakey start where they told you to write posted?

[Dan Carmell]

I have to say, with no intended disrespect, that I have my doubts about Mr. Dubiel's quantitative estimate of MB's quality. I'm sure he examined many FPs but I seriously doubt if he examined even 1000 MB149's under his loupe AND, if he did, I doubt they were a representative sampling; they would (most likely) have been brought to him with other defects. When would he sit and analyze several thousand brand new MB149s? Most owners keep them (inked or uninked) and send them to MB if they need service.

 

I got to add a comment here...and I mean no disrespect to you, Lloyd, but you are dead nuts wrong.

 

I had the pleasure of talking to Frank at the Philly show just after the turn of the century. I have his repair manual. The man started repairing pens as a kid. Where did he get his "subjects"?? From the garbage piles of his city dump. He and his brother used to go there to find pens to fix. I asked him about this, and he stated, as a child of the Depression, if you didn't have the money, you made do. That was his way of making do.

 

So--if Frank stated he examined one googolplex MBs...I would accept that a truth greater than gravity. He suffered no fools and had no time for bullshi!.

 

Bill

 

Frank was a good guy, albeit a tiny bit cranky on occasion, but he was also highly opinated and didn't always let facts get in the way of his opinions, which is actually something I admire in someone--to a degree. But he wasn't always right. If you scour the vast volume of Dubielia out there, you will find more than a few things that Frank was just completely wrong about. He was a great guy, I admired him and he was always very helpful to me, but--independent of this particular dispute, to put Frank on a plinth of absolute veracity is a disserve to him and to our own powers of observation.

 

Dan

 

[meanwhile]

I definitely agree. We have to treat FD's statement as just another piece of evidence. However *all* the evidence seems to point in the direction of the same set of conclusions -

 

- A good MB can be very good...

 

- However there are significantly more bad MB's than there are bad Pels, Sailors, or Pilots...

 

- Most MB's are somewhat between these two polls.

 

- "Precious resin" MB's are somewhat delicate

 

- MB customer service is variable, and can be awful. So persevere, insist, persuade and nag if your MB doesn't write the way you deserve after spending that much moolah!

Edited July 5, 2007 by meanwhile

[georges zaslavsky]

Good review I own two vintage 149, I will buy another again.

[beezaur]

I think maligning these pens is a hobby for some of you guys.

 

Scott

 

 

Not sure, Scott, but I think acting as apologists for Montblanc is a full-time job for a lot more of you guys

 

Bill

 

 

You shouldn't consider me an apologist of MontBlanc. I do own a 149, and I do enjoy it. I also recognize that the pens have their problems. Being a consumer, I would like it very much if MB got its act together about the technical issues with its pens. MB makes other pens that I would buy, but will not unless the various problems are resolved.

 

My point with my posts here is to promote more rigorous reasoning. Most discussion here [on FPN] about Montblanc pens is, to be honest, not even worth reading. One heavily slanted fallacy after another, punctuated by reactionary declarations and even allegations about the character of the owners. An awful lot of effort goes into over-eager assertions that just do not make the grade.

 

My gripe is with the inane blathering, not with the valid criticisms. My motivation is hardly to defend the brand, even though that is the end result.

 

Scott

 

P.S. To be sure, it would be a full-time job to try and keep up with, let alone refute, the tremendous volume of Montblanc complaining that goes on here.

Edited July 5, 2007 by beezaur

[kazoolaw]

"He was a great guy, I admired him and he was always very helpful to me, but--independent of this particular dispute, to put Frank on a plinth of absolute veracity is a disserve to him and to our own powers of observation.

Dan"

 

 

Plinth? PLINTH??!!

This should be like Groucho Marx' show: you've said the magic word.

This may be the first time I've seen the word used in conversation.

Congrats!

gary

[HDoug]

"He was a great guy, I admired him and he was always very helpful to me, but--independent of this particular dispute, to put Frank on a plinth of absolute veracity is a disserve to him and to our own powers of observation.

Dan"

 

 

Plinth? PLINTH??!!

This should be like Groucho Marx' show: you've said the magic word.

This may be the first time I've seen the word used in conversation.

Congrats!

gary

 

Interesting. I thought plinth might be a hapax legomenon for FPN, but I note it has been used at least twice -- and by posters other than Dan. I myself had to look the word up.

 

Doug

[Dan Carmell]

"He was a great guy, I admired him and he was always very helpful to me, but--independent of this particular dispute, to put Frank on a plinth of absolute veracity is a disserve to him and to our own powers of observation.

Dan"

 

 

Plinth? PLINTH??!!

This should be like Groucho Marx' show: you've said the magic word.

This may be the first time I've seen the word used in conversation.

Congrats!

gary

 

Interesting. I thought plinth might be a hapax legomenon for FPN, but I note it has been used at least twice -- and by posters other than Dan. I myself had to look the word up.

 

Doug

 

Hapax legomenon? I had to look that up, Doug! What a wonderful concept and a neat term. To save others the trouble, here's Wikipedia's definition: "A hapax legomenon (pl. hapax legomena, though sometimes called hapaxes for short) is a word which occurs only once in the written record of a language, in the works of an author, or in a single text."

 

I guess you know you are a bookworm when a phrase like that can get one all revved up!

 

As for plinth, the opportunity to use the phrase "plinth of absolute veracity" was just more temptation than I could stand.

 

Dan

 

[Dan Carmell]

<snip>

 

- MB customer service is variable, and can be awful. So persevere, insist, persuade and nag if your MB doesn't write the way you deserve after spending that much moolah!

 

In truth, isn't variable customer service the norm rather than the exception? It seems to me that there are a few pen makers that provide good to exception post-purchase service and the rest are sub-par to rather awful, with MB falling somewhere in between, especially with regard to the fees they sometimes--but not always--exact.

 

I disagree with the suggestion to insist on after-care from a maker than isn't good at doing so, unless you need a part replaced that only the maker can supply. I guess this is my vintage pen background, but I don't expect a new pen to be perfect and I would much rather send it to get tweaked to someone like Binder or Joel Hamilton who knows and cares about pens, than back to a pen maker where parts get swapped out like they would for any other consumer product. Yes, it's a bad comment on modern pens, yes, it adds to the expense, but the results are better and if I care about the pen, that's what is important, ultimately.

 

Dan

Edited July 7, 2007 by Dan Carmell

[meanwhile]

...I don't expect a new pen to be perfect

 

I do, when I'm paying the cost of an MB for a black plastic, non-flex nib pen! And if it's not perfect then I expect it replacing with a fault free pen, instantly.

 

and I would much rather send it to get tweaked to someone like Binder or Joel Hamilton who knows and cares about pens, than back to a pen maker where parts get swapped out like they would for any other consumer product.

 

Unfortunately MB refuse to supply parts to independents, reducing your ability to get independent servicing. I have this on Richard Binder's authority - the thread shouldn't be too hard to find if you're interested.

 

Yes, it's a bad comment on modern pens, yes, it adds to the expense, but the results are better and if I care about the pen, that's what is important, ultimately.

 

I'd rather buy a Pilot and have things work first time, or a Pelikan and know that Chartpak are standing behind it (in the unlikely event the pen needs anything doing).

[Dan Carmell]

...I don't expect a new pen to be perfect

 

I do, when I'm paying the cost of an MB for a black plastic, non-flex nib pen! And if it's not perfect then I expect it replacing with a fault free pen, instantly.

 

and I would much rather send it to get tweaked to someone like Binder or Joel Hamilton who knows and cares about pens, than back to a pen maker where parts get swapped out like they would for any other consumer product.

 

Unfortunately MB refuse to supply parts to independents, reducing your ability to get independent servicing. I have this on Richard Binder's authority - the thread shouldn't be too hard to find if you're interested.

 

Yes, it's a bad comment on modern pens, yes, it adds to the expense, but the results are better and if I care about the pen, that's what is important, ultimately.

 

I'd rather buy a Pilot and have things work first time, or a Pelikan and know that Chartpak are standing behind it (in the unlikely event the pen needs anything doing).

 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I am just speaking to the difficulty, frustration, and even impossibility of getting some pen makers, even those who make a nice pen, to get it right on return.

 

BTW, I doubt that many pen makers will supply parts to independents--why would they? It's not like the old days when retailers also repaired pens. These modern pen companies don't have authorized independent repair centers, so they have (in their own corporate reasoning) no good reason to supply parts.

 

Again, this is my bias, derived directly from my experience with vintage pens that need tweaking. I should not have to send a new pen out for repair to an repair person and pay, but I am likely to, so that I am assured that the work is done right. As a side note, I am especially prone to do this to get the nib modified, which is not a repair per se. But I find modern nibs dull enough in many cases that only by getting them turned into a stub or oblique does the nib make the pretty pen worthy of use!

 

Dan

Edited July 7, 2007 by Dan Carmell

[meanwhile]

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I am just speaking to the difficulty, frustration, and even impossibility of getting some pen makers, even those who make a nice pen, to get it right on return.

 

The horror stories about some Italian pens are amazing.

 

BTW, I doubt that many pen makers will supply parts to independents--why would they?

 

Good point. All I can say is that RB did make the point about MB as if he was especially annoyed.

 

As a side note, I am especially prone to do this to get the nib modified, which is not a repair per se. But I find modern nibs dull enough in many cases that only by getting them turned into a stub or oblique does the nib make the pretty pen worthy of use!

 

That slight stub quality that one poster said old MB's had does sound very attractive. And I've lost the temptation to own a Sailor because just another glassy smooth nib doesn't interest me enough.

 

[acogbill]

The horror stories about some Italian pens are amazing.

 

Not that I doubt you, but what kinds of horror stories are you referring to?

[meanwhile]

The horror stories about some Italian pens are amazing.

 

Not that I doubt you, but what kinds of horror stories are you referring to?

 

You'd be better off asking in - or searching - Writing Instruments. People will be willing to share - trust me in this! (The worst problem seems to be that faulty Italian pens often have to go back to Italy for servicing, and this is often a slow process. Especially when a pen has to make multiple trips, which does happen. "Allan" claimed to have an Italian pen that made eight trips, but this was in a passionate defense of MB, and frankly you don't have to trust everything everyone on the Internet says... All the same, there have been stories involving a fair amount of frustration from other sources too.)