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Fake / Clone Moonman M2


old4570

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Moonman was worried about their name being tarnished? They just put out a copy of a Leonardo pen! Not a sorta copy. A dead ringer. They also just copied the Pilot 823, Parker Duofold, what looks like a Sailor KOP, and maybe a Danitrio.

 

Here's the Leonardo knock off.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moonman-800-Colorful-Acrylic-Fountain-Pen-Golden-Clip-Fine-Nib-F-0-5mm-Writing/274202669191?hash=item3fd7c0b087:m:mwTL2q8B0-ab8alhFUmR2PA

 

 

 

some of the technology companies that seem to be the most concerned with people stealing their intellectual property are the ones who have been publicly caught stealing others’ IP

To hold a pen is to be at war. - Voltaire
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There probably are some people who won't buy a pen because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

And there are a lot of people who will buy this pen precisely because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

Somehow M600S (Duofold copy) didn't tarnish Moonman's reputation, nor Wing Sung's knock offs (601, 626, 699) did tarnish Wing Sung's reputation. Quite contrary actually, these knock-offs turned out to be quite popular.

 

So why would it suddenly be a problem with this new "Mooman Leonardo"?

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There probably are some people who won't buy a pen because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

And there are a lot of people who will buy this pen precisely because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

Somehow M600S (Duofold copy) didn't tarnish Moonman's reputation, nor Wing Sung's knock offs (601, 626, 699) did tarnish Wing Sung's reputation. Quite contrary actually, these knock-offs turned out to be quite popular.

 

So why would it suddenly be a problem with this new "Mooman Leonardo"?

I'm not going to argue for the other models except the 601.

Wing Sung actually improved the design of Parker's filler method and they also add an ink window.

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Perhaps, but still I don't think anyone would put into doubt that 601 is a 51 copy. Down to the arrow clip. Amongst 601s there also are those with the exact same filling mechanism as Parker 51 Vac (first release with rubber diaphragm) as well as ones without an ink window.

 

And 601 turned out to be so popular not despite being a 51 copy, but because it's a really good 51 copy.

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There probably are some people who won't buy a pen because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

And there are a lot of people who will buy this pen precisely because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

Somehow M600S (Duofold copy) didn't tarnish Moonman's reputation, nor Wing Sung's knock offs (601, 626, 699) did tarnish Wing Sung's reputation. Quite contrary actually, these knock-offs turned out to be quite popular.

 

So why would it suddenly be a problem with this new "Mooman Leonardo"?

There are many people that think those 'copies' are shameful . Nobody said copies of Duofold or Parker51 are ok but that of Leonardo is not ok.

 

At least, Parker51 is a discontinued vintage model. But Duofold and Momento Zero are current models.

Edited by clear1
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Perhaps, but still I don't think anyone would put into doubt that 601 is a 51 copy. Down to the arrow clip. Amongst 601s there also are those with the exact same filling mechanism as Parker 51 Vac (first release with rubber diaphragm) as well as ones without an ink window.

 

And 601 turned out to be so popular not despite being a 51 copy, but because it's a really good 51 copy.

I would consider something copying if all of the features are similar to the one they are intending to copy without adding anything into it.

When they have distinctive features, I'd rather call it "influenced" rather than "copy".

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Well, as far as I see it, all features of 601 are very similiar to Parker 51. Especially on the window-less version (all three 601s I have are without ink windows). The filling system is altered but still works on the same basis as the vacumatic.


I guess it would be debatable where is the line. Is Hero 616 a 51 copy or just "influenced" by it? Is the fact that's it's made of a cheap junk plastic and a squeeze filler instead of a proper aerometric (personally I don't get the difference but I've heard there is one) a substantial difference?


Moonman M600S is a standard international C/C rather than proprietary Parker standard. Is this a distinctive feature?


There are people out there who call Hero 100 a 51 copy, despite several differences (slimmer, longer section, different clip) or even Wing Sung 618 a 51 copy (the only thing they have in common is the hooded nib).


Edited by WJM
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Well, as far as I see it, all features of 601 are very similiar to Parker 51. Especially on the window-less version (all three 601s I have are without ink windows). The filling system is altered but still works on the same basis as the vacumatic.

 

You are right in saying that the WS 601 design is taken mostly from the Parker 51 but the fact that WS 601 has an ink window version and Parker does not quite summarizes the fact that Wing Sung improved on the source of inspiration to a certain aspect. A lazy "copy" minded company would just use 100% of the design and not alter anything even to an extent in using same model / brand name. The little gripe I have with the 601 is that they could just ditch the arrow style clip to another design.

 

As for the filling mechanism, they use the same basis of filling concept but different execution. Look at how complex assembly / disassembly of the vacuumatic compared to the piston type system WS uses. Other plus is the longevity of the WS system has over the vacuumatic system that is more susceptible to failing on the long term. Don't forget the ease of cleaning and maintainability between those two systems. As I said, different execution but miles apart in terms of experience handling both of them.

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There probably are some people who won't buy a pen because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

And there are a lot of people who will buy this pen precisely because it's a blatant copy of another model.

 

Somehow M600S (Duofold copy) didn't tarnish Moonman's reputation, nor Wing Sung's knock offs (601, 626, 699) did tarnish Wing Sung's reputation. Quite contrary actually, these knock-offs turned out to be quite popular.

 

So why would it suddenly be a problem with this new "Mooman Leonardo"?

good question and that beg to question , is there more to just the simple fact that one's a copy of another of some sort ... yes the M600 is a copy of the Duofold, but is it not the Duofold ( modern ) a copy of the same namesake vintage Parker and in itself a copy of the then more common ones back then like Waterman's flat top(s)

 

Then it beg to ask, why do people react so and so , this way , that way ... part of that is value , value as in what they pay for vs what they get , value as in knowing how its being position and marketed. I wager part of the backlash the Moonman had is that its too much a Leonardo vs the real Leonardo ; when clearly a Hero 616 is never even close to a 51 ( but the aerometric part actually is the same , engineering wise , not the actual parts ). The same too much of a pen vs the real thing happen with all the Chinese Safari clones.

 

A part of it is that they devalue the real thing both by presence of the said copies and the fact that these copies are proving working and working decent ( in these cases ) at a price difference ( and in the case with Leonardo, even similar nib ), and the other is simply there is no way to counter that ( thanks to faulted international trade, legal system, property rights etc ... )

 

Some question the decision bestow Moonman on this path , but its just as the Godfather movie's famous quote says : " it's just business " - as stated, some people will not buy this pen as its a blatant copy of another pen, but even more people would buy it simply because its a blatant copy of another pen, which many consumer seen as - ok nice, but why bother with the price when I can buy basically same pen that cost a fraction - even though it really is not the same pen .. the value part is simply that there is not enough of a difference , at least not for the large part these consumer sees it.

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Moonman: Produces knockoffs that is their rep-u-ta-tion....That reputation doesn't cause name to tarnish....Perhaps Fe 0

2

 

 

{freakin'happysmileyfacetimethingie}x2

 

Fred

Additionally....'Tis others prerogative to continue Beating a dead horse.....

 

Fred

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  • 2 months later...

Dec 4 2019 - 17 March 2020

No issues to report !

I use it as often as possible , and it writes well .

Sub $10 FP's might start and end with this one !

I did buy a 2nd one , have not inked it yet . Dont know that I want to ? Dry testing the NIB on paper , feels smooth .

If only the NIB's on the Moonman M2 were as good .

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I'm of the opinion that the clone hyl pen is not that great. The EF nib looks like it had basically no tipping material and writing with it had such a thin line that only lubricating inks would write without skipping. Maybe this is lack of experience with true EF nibs, only real EF nib I have used before is the wing sung 6359

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mine is all that and then some .

After getting mine , I have seriously lost interest in other FP's ..

 

What do you do , where do you go , after you get a cheap FP that works ?

All my other cheap Fp's have had an issue , of some sort !

This is the very first budget FP ( Sub $10 ) that has been problem/issue free .

I have boxes and boxes of cheap FP's that are not 100% .

Am I using any of those pens = No !

I have 5 FP's inked right now ...

2x Moonman M2 , the mini Moonman 80 , Wing Sung 3013 and the clone M2 we are discussing here .

 

Of all those , only the Clone / Fake ( What ever ) M2 is stock / original / un modified / and something I can live with as is . ( That is saying a lot - for my example )

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I was so frustrated with my M2's nib, I literally tossed out the window. In fact none of my Moonman's (S1, S3, N2) #5 nibs worked well. All had to be worked on. What a shame.Such beautiful pens, such bad nibs.

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I was so frustrated with my M2's nib, I literally tossed out the window. In fact none of my Moonman's (S1, S3, N2) #5 nibs worked well. All had to be worked on. What a shame.Such beautiful pens, such bad nibs.

I think it really is a case of different strokes for different folks. I enjoy my M2 nib very much, it is fine, has consistent feedback, and the reserved ink flow allows it to make precise lines that suits my handwriting a lot.

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Its the usual case of asking the right tool to do the wrong job or vice versa ; all of the mentioned are designed , manufactured and tuned to write their home language and doing it with some applause. The flip side is that they generally are not too well suited for casual cursive writing and while they can be used for them even quite effectively any user doing that would need to adept their writing to facilitate.

 

As one who write in muktiple language I am keenly aware of that and my muscle memory automatically adjust when I write but I can understand the frustration some other face

 

If one look real close and carefully at the tipping one would usually find that most Chinese nibs had a quasi architect grind with a fairly flattened squared off and kind of acute crisp side which will not take it well for writing with the tip twisting or dragging it side face on. The writing surface of the tipping is usually right down the center and a compound curve with a roll off to the flat sides ; this made them suited to the stroke and angling writing Chinese but restrict its usage as dragging cursive and most of them are tuned to write at a far more vertical pose than typical cursive also

 

To write cursive with these nib is to know them and write with discipline namely no twisting the tip all the time ( which prove to be actually beneficial as a practice and learning aid as it punish bad handling of the pen regarding penmanship ) and learn to use that compound curve center.

Edited by Mech-for-i
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have got couple of these HYL ones with fine nib those cost $1.45 per piece from Aliexpress back in December 2019. The overall feel was a bit cheap, but okay for the pen, which I got used to. Only thing I didn't like about this pen was the nib. I switched the nib with Jinhao 991's nib (and feed, if I recall correctly, left my bag at the office). Jinhao 991's nib was an upgrade for this pen :lol:

 

Apart from that, I'm liking the pen. Using the pen currently with my crappy ink mixes.

 

Also, as a side note, this clone takes more ink than M2, because the top filled solid area (whatever it's called) of this M2 clone is not filled unlike the original one, and you can put more ink to that area.

 

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Edited by Ardakilic
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  • 2 weeks later...

I didn't realize I had bought knock-offs of the Moonman M2 until just now. I think I paid something like $2.50 each shipped on EBay.

 

However, the kicker is that both of these pens start up after sitting for a few days with no problems. They write smoothly and they don't skip. I wish I could say all my German and Japanese pens started up first time without effort after sitting for up to a week without use.

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I didn't realize I had bought knock-offs of the Moonman M2 until just now. I think I paid something like $2.50 each shipped on EBay.

 

However, the kicker is that both of these pens start up after sitting for a few days with no problems. They write smoothly and they don't skip. I wish I could say all my German and Japanese pens started up first time without effort after sitting for up to a week without use.

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  • 3 months later...

I have a Moonman M2 (perpetually inked with Bernanke Blue) which I use often, so I decided to grab a few of these HYL to try. Feels much lighter, the cheap plastic construction does not have the "feel" of the dense, heavier acrylic of a proper Moonman m2. Screwcap and barrel/reservoir are feel rough and cheap. I inked it with some Parker Quink Black. Didn't work, that ink is dry pretty quickly and I just could never get it feed properly. It just wouldn't flow. So, dumped the quink black and tried Noodle Q-E'ternity. Still skipped and dried though Qeternity was wetter.

 

Hmmmm...ink still wouldn't flow...what the heck, it's just $2, let's experiment. I gently bent the nib away from the feed slightly and voila! Ink flow! It flows nicely, didn't skip or dry or even drip. The body barrel also doesn't drip or leak -- and that was my primary concern. It's an eyedropper and a leaky body is the worst thing that can happen to one of those.

 

Writes: ok, bit scratchy. I got the extra fine and it's definitely an extra fine, as thin as my Preppy EF 02s, but scratchier.

 

TLDR: LOL, it's a 2$ version of a m2. It's usable and with maybe a little doctoring, and a wet ink, it basically works. And for $2, if I lose it, I'd miss the ink instead of the pen.

 

But a proper m2 isn't expensive at $13. At 20% of eth price of an M2, the HYL is 20% of the value. I'll probably give them away to people.

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