Finer Nibs Vs. Broader Nibs: What Do You Prefer?

[ENewton]

To answer the question in your title, I prefer finer nibs for writing, because my handwriting is tiny, but I have a few broader nibs (a Sailor broad, a PSP medium cursive italic, and a 1.1 stub) that I find useful for producing diagrams in which variations of line width can convey meaning, or impromptu sketches I want to be able to show other people at the same table without having to pass the page to each person individually.

 

If you are located in Berkeley, you don't necessarily have to acquire broader nibs before experiencing them. The San Francisco Pen Posse meets on many, if not most, Sundays, almost always at "Pete's," a diner just across the street from the San Mateo BART station. If you were to attend on any given Sunday, you would certainly find people carrying broad or stub nibs that they would let you try.

 

Now I have a question for you:

 

 

Since I am a college student, functionality always dictates my affection for any nib.

 

If functionality dictates your affection for a nib, I'd be interested in knowing how the nibs in your collection are different in terms of function. What purpose does nib A serve that B does not? Are some nibs functionally equivalent but valuable in multiples insofar as you can have each pen inked with a different color for differentiation within your notes? As a person who has 15 bottles of ink of which 14 are purple, I am curious about the nuances to be discerned among ostensibly similar things.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have become ever so 'bleeping' lazy with doing inks, once I of course did three flexes and 4 widths on a couple or three papers.........................now just one on one...

 

..and I'll be loading Pelikan Smoky Quartz, in an Osmia 63 BBL (sigh OB1/2...even in the old days there is the narrow side of tolerance), semi-flex #3 nib, and look for brown ink, rich, saturated, almost black and with incredible shading.

I had nothing against Smoky Quartz thinking it similar to Herbin Cafe des Illes or Lie de Thee`.

 

Thanx for the reminder to use both a wide and a narrow nib. I'm sure I had some F pens clean enough to use, so didn't grab a wide nib out of the dirty pen cup.

On cheap 80g copy paper more From what I remember as cafe des Ills, on Rhodia 90g some letters are almost black, others are a very dark brown, there is shading, with a semi-flex OB 1/2. A world of difference.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[jslallar]

I prefrer B or BB nibs for my writing - mostly prescriptions and patient notes

 

to ByronZ

every person has a different taste. B nibs are genrally smoother, but need a bigger hand writing and use up more ink. plus of interest to you they lay more ink on the papaer so take longer to dry up and so can result in smudges in a note book if you are not careful enough

 

BTW MB 146 EF and F are alll individuallly hand ground and there is a great variation in sizes, and they are known not to be all that fine, and can be equal to most other make's M or even B.

 

My MB 146 EF is like many others more an architect nib - thinner down strokes and broader cross strokes, whereas my MB 146 F is nearly as broad as my Faber Castell B pens, and definitely brpader than many a M I own. please read below ...

 

to sandy101

agreed that there is a lot of variation in the nib sizes but most would consider a 0.8 - 1 mm a B nib. please see this link

https://www.nibs.com/content/nib-tipping-sizes

 

I would agree with zaddick in so far as buying and using a good cheaper pen and you can get the feel of a broad nib for under $30 with Lamy Safari, but i would humbly suggest to try B nib before you go on to Stubs a italic nibs like lamy 1.1 to 1.9 mentioned by zaddick. they can be forgiving but still need time to get used to them.

Edited June 30, 2019 by jslallar

[Zlh296830]

To answer the question in your title, I prefer finer nibs for writing, because my handwriting is tiny, but I have a few broader nibs (a Sailor broad, a PSP medium cursive italic, and a 1.1 stub) that I find useful for producing diagrams in which variations of line width can convey meaning, or impromptu sketches I want to be able to show other people at the same table without having to pass the page to each person individually.

 

If you are located in Berkeley, you don't necessarily have to acquire broader nibs before experiencing them. The San Francisco Pen Posse meets on many, if not most, Sundays, almost always at "Pete's," a diner just across the street from the San Mateo BART station. If you were to attend on any given Sunday, you would certainly find people carrying broad or stub nibs that they would let you try.

 

Now I have a question for you:

 

 

If functionality dictates your affection for a nib, I'd be interested in knowing how the nibs in your collection are different in terms of function. What purpose does nib A serve that B does not? Are some nibs functionally equivalent but valuable in multiples insofar as you can have each pen inked with a different color for differentiation within your notes? As a person who has 15 bottles of ink of which 14 are purple, I am curious about the nuances to be discerned among ostensibly similar things.

 

Thank you for your question!

I believe, in my post, "functionality" has a rather subjective definition. To me, a functional nib has to first fit my style of writing. I write quite small, as you can see from the pictures I posted, and a broad nib would make the letters/characters I write all merge together, therefore, become unreadable.

Secondly, a functional nib has to fit the tasks I use my pens to accomplish. These tasks include taking lecture notes (fast writing), drawing chemical structures (requires fine and relatively hard nibs), and writing mathematical equations. If I were to use a broad nib to take lecture notes, I would have to write large, which is not only uncomfortable but also require me to flip the page of my notebook more often… (there are obviously other potential problems too, I won’t list all of them here).

Furthermore, a functional nib has to be a nib that I enjoy writing with. I will list the pens I use the most here and explain what I enjoy them. It is important to first point out that, different from you, I use a variety of ink colors. Most of my inks are relatively dark, with only a few exceptions. I will list my most used pen-ink pairs and explain why I like them (no specific order):

1. Pilot Irushizuku Tsuki-yo in Montblanc 146 (Fine).

This MB is from the late 90s. I got it new from an eBay bidding. IT HAS MY BEST NIB. I love the slight architect feel of it. This nib is almost buttery smooth but the very slight feedback actually makes it more attractive to me. It is also very very juicy and I never have any flow issue with it. This pen makes writing not only with ease, but it also makes it so much more enjoyable. I have been using this pen to complete the fast writing task since I got it. The pen also has great ink capacity and I never have to worry about running out ink in the middle of the day.

2. Pilot Irushizuku Syo-ro in Pilot Justus 95 (Fine)

This is another astonishing pair. The nib of the Justus is one of the best Japanese fine nibs I ever have used. It writes as soon as it touches the paper. The ink flow is PERFECT. The feedback vs. smoothness is PERFECT. There is nothing bad about this nib for me. When it comes to the softness of this nib, it also fits my need very well: unlike my Pilot Falcon, it is not as soft and therefore fits my need when writing chemical structures. This pen has no problem handle fast writing either. The only complain is that Pilot does not use build in Piston mechanism, which has larger ink capacity, in most of their pens.

3. Pilot Irushizuku Asa-gao in Sailor 1911L (Medium Fine)

This is a great pen that has a nib with precision, but it is not my favorite. Here, I will explain, in terms of functionality, why I keep it inked. First of all, the nib is quite fine and it fits well to my writing style. Secondly, it has very special feedback that is quite different from all the other nibs I have: this allows me to “switch and refresh” my “writing mood.” I admit that I do get tired of writing with the same nib after a while. Having something different to switch the gears is always a good thing and therefore “functional” for me. Also, having more color makes it easier for me to write my somewhat “color-coded” notes.

4. Montblanc Lavender Purple in Lamy 2000 (Extra Fine)

Another great note-taking pen. I absolutely love the nib of this pen. It is juicy and smooth for the very fine line width it provides. The feel of this nib also has a very distinct feel from all the nibs I have. This, again, makes it easier for me to “switch and refresh.” Inked with a different color (relatively dark), it effectively enriches my notebook.

5. Kobe #16 Nada Brown in Montblanc 146 (Extra Fine)

This is my FAVORITE GERMAN EF NIB (slightly finer than the Justus F). This nib is the new grind that MB pulled out in recent years and I have read negative reviews about this nib. Most of the complaint is that it has too much feedback and it is hard to control. I noticed the unique grind of this nib and had to learn to write with it. However, the more I write with it, the more addictive it became. It provides a very slight line variation and feels like a very fine Italic nib (it feels like one but does not provide the same amount of line variation). Instead of having a Sailor “feedback-grab” on the paper, this nib grabs the paper with a bit of “blade-like” feeling. I absolutely enjoy this. Furthermore, the nib is very very wet considering its nib width. It is a hard nib with a slight bounce, which fits my “dream-touch” requirement very well. In a word, it performs very well in all the tasks that I mentioned above and added a nice brown color to my notes.

6. Kyoto #3 Kokeiro in Pilot Custom 823 (Medium)

This pen is great, but not my favorite: it is too smooth for me, which could be a good thing for others. I plan to have it adjusted by Mike Masuyama during the SF pen show this year to be a bit finer and a similar grind to my MB 146 in F. Again, with a different color and a huge ink capacity, this pen contribute to my notetaking tasks very well.

As you can see, having finer nibs with different feel and pens inked with different color fits my everyday task very well. I should say that since I am meticulous on how a nib writes on paper, having different nibs with similar line width fits my need the best. I could imagine broader nibs to add more fun to my collection, but I can not imagine myself doing my daily tasks with them. I am very alert about this due to the fact that I have a Pilot Falcon (Extra Fine), which is FUN but hard to control for my daily writing. I recently got an Aurora 88 (Flex Fine), which is even softer and with MORE FUN. I have tried to write chemical structures during a lecture, and it does not work for me. Moreover, my Aurora 88 flex has a NOTORIOUS HARD-STARTING ISSUE. I plan to send it back and switch to an Aurora 88 Nettuno (Fine). I will update/review these two pens soon after I get my hand on the Nettuno.

I hope this clarifies what I mean by “functional” in my original post. Everyone has different standards when talking about whether a fountain pen is “functional” for him/her/themself. The original intention for me to post this topic is, partially, for me to explore what other people use broader nibs for. I appreciate your response and your question. Thank you!

Byron

[Noihvo]

 

 

[chromantic]

F and EF for me, please; maybe M, if we're talking American v. Euro. Japanese F or M is good.

 

My handwriting is on the compact side so the thinner line works better.

[Addertooth]

My nib preference is based upon purpose and the paper being written on.

Many of my daily documents and records are low quality photocopy paper. I need a pen which glides across horribly inferior paper without bleeds/runs/scratches. A Graf Faber Castell E-Motion in Medium (with Montblanc Irish Green) fits this bill rather well. Buttery smooth across the worst of paper with a distinctive green shade which helps me spot documents which I have annotated or updated.

 

For basic correction, or specific notations on technical documents, I use a different pen/ink combination. This is not for drafting the entire document, it is for critical annotations (watch out for this, or this is of special value) within the diagram. It is a basic Petrol Lamy Safari with Graf Faber Castell Garnet Red. It always leaves a clean concise line, which seems narrower than the medium rating on the pen.

 

When it is time to get creative, or do artistic text, an old flex-pen from the 20s fits that bill. It flexes from XXF to BBB. For now, I am using Graf Faber Castell Carbon Black, but, Diamine Wild Strawberry/Noodler's Purple Heart/ and Colorverse Dust storm will be arriving this Saturday to add some character to the artistic text.

 

I have a medium Nib Montblanc 146 Which gets pulled out for longer winded journal entries, on high quality paper, but other than that, it is not a general use pen.

 

Meanwhile, far too many worthy pens, rest in the box, waiting for a purpose... and a turn.

[georges zaslavsky]

Depends but medium broad does it best for me.

[Arkanabar]

The only use I have for broad nibs is to practice handwriting. Mine is usually cramped, narrow, and awful, and a wide stub forces me to open up the loops on my e, a, d, k, o, etc.

[FOUR X FOUR]

Thank you Zaddick I too am a broadside Ambassador

[Noihvo]

[dkreider]

I see you are studying Organic Chemistry and some Immunology, I wonder if you are interested in medical school?

In response to your question, I preferred broader nibs until roughly a year ago, when I got serious about calligraphy. I found myself gravitating toward the finer lines, which helped me "fine"-tune my writing, even when I am not doing calligraphy. The main appeal of broad nibs for me was (and still is) their smoothness, and the insane amounts of ink you can lay down on the paper. I do feel it's important to practice with a variety of nib sizes, at least if you have a fascination with writing styles, and writing improvement. Best of luck to you.

[dkreider]

The only use I have for broad nibs is to practice handwriting. Mine is usually cramped, narrow, and awful, and a wide stub forces me to open up the loops on my e, a, d, k, o, etc.

That's very interesting, I recently started working with a 1/4" Automatic Pen for similar reasons (I am going through paper pretty fast, though). I have noticed that handwriting tends to look better to others than it does to the writer

I don't imagine yours can be that bad, especially if you are taking steps to improve it.

[TSherbs]

Finer

[wspohn]

XF or finer all the way for me. I prefer to wield a rapier rather than a cudgel!

[OMASsimo]

An OBB nib from the 1950s by Pelikan, Kaweco, or Osmia is a very fine rapier, indeed. Do compare to the blunt dingbats produced nowadays by prime manufacturers.

[dubhe]

I use a Montblanc fine nib for daily writing on low grade office paper as they are reliable, smooth but minimise bleed through. In my own notebooks for note taking and drawing up lists and diagrams I use Pelikan or Sailor broad nibs as they have more character and can produce some shading from the greater ink flow. For birthday cards and signatures I use a Montblanc B or BB with great line variation from the stub.

 

In summary I use the broadest nib I can for the paper and task in hand.

[Billingsgate]

I've only recently returned to fountain pens after a twenty-year break, and probably the most frustrating part of it is getting a nib in the (fine) width I prefer. I'm a writer and artist. I like a clean, detailed line, no messy things like lower case e looking like a c with a blob on top.

 

My uses for pens are, in this order:

 

1) Correcting printed-out manuscripts - Pilot 3776 Century UEF is perfect for writing between the lines!

2) Writing thoughts and short passages in notebooks - Pilot Metro F or Platinum 3776 Century F look great

3) Sketching - So far I love my Pilot Metal Falcon soft fine

4) Just-as-I'm-falling-asleep late night epiphanies - I have a glass tumbler full of Pilot Petit 1 pens in nine colors and a couple Rhodia notepads sitting on my side table. They have a deliciously perfect fine line, and I don't have to fret if I accidentally drop one on the floor when half-awake.

 

At first I didn't know the difference between European and Japanese pens. So I did what I'm sure many people do when they're young to this affliction: I bought a pen based on its looks on a web page, without ever holding or trying it. It was an on-sale Waterman Carene Essential with a fine nib. Loved it when I opened the box, inked it with Noodler's Black, which I consider a medium wetness ink. My initial reaction:

 

You call this fine???

 

The line looked like the trail left by a Seattle slug. If that's what they call fine, I could probably use their broad nib instead of a roller brush to paint my house. I paid over a hundred bucks to get a replacement nib in EF size. To me, it is borderline acceptable. I'll use my Carene EF with Noodler's Black when I need what I consider to be a BROAD line. I tried it with some other inks. Noodler's Lexington Gray: came out like a fire hose. Kyo-something-or-other Japanese ink in burgundy red, which was better, but also what I call a medium to broad line.

 

I like the Carene, but this sort of line is best for writing refrigerator notes and for signing documents.

 

Think I'll stick with Japanese F and EF pens.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Billingsgate

[dkreider]

I've only recently returned to fountain pens after a twenty-year break, and probably the most frustrating part of it is getting a nib in the (fine) width I prefer. I'm a writer and artist. I like a clean, detailed line, no messy things like lower case e looking like a c with a blob on top.

 

My uses for pens are, in this order:

 

1) Correcting printed-out manuscripts - Pilot 3776 Century UEF is perfect for writing between the lines!

2) Writing thoughts and short passages in notebooks - Pilot Metro F or Platinum 3776 Century F look great

3) Sketching - So far I love my Pilot Metal Falcon soft fine

4) Just-as-I'm-falling-asleep late night epiphanies - I have a glass tumbler full of Pilot Petit 1 pens in nine colors and a couple Rhodia notepads sitting on my side table. They have a deliciously perfect fine line, and I don't have to fret if I accidentally drop one on the floor when half-awake.

 

At first I didn't know the difference between European and Japanese pens. So I did what I'm sure many people do when they're young to this affliction: I bought a pen based on its looks on a web page, without ever holding or trying it. It was an on-sale Waterman Carene Essential with a fine nib. Loved it when I opened the box, inked it with Noodler's Black, which I consider a medium wetness ink. My initial reaction:

 

You call this fine???

 

The line looked like the trail left by a Seattle slug. If that's what they call fine, I could probably use their broad nib instead of a roller brush to paint my house. I paid over a hundred bucks to get a replacement nib in EF size. To me, it is borderline acceptable. I'll use my Carene EF with Noodler's Black when I need what I consider to be a BROAD line. I tried it with some other inks. Noodler's Lexington Gray: came out like a fire hose. Kyo-something-or-other Japanese ink in burgundy red, which was better, but also what I call a medium to broad line.

 

I like the Carene, but this sort of line is best for writing refrigerator notes and for signing documents.

 

Think I'll stick with Japanese F and EF pens.

Haha yeah, both of those Noodler's inks are gushers. If you need a grey ink, I recommend Faber-Castell Stone Grey; I find it to be a dryer ink (compared to Lexington Grey, Diamine Graphite, and whatever the grey Pilot Iroshizuku ink is called).

[bemon]

In true Canadian fashion, I'm planted firmly in the middle: Medium nibs for me!