What Was The Best Knock-Off Fountain Pen Ever Made?

[Honeybadgers]

No cigar pen is automatically a knockoff of the MB design. a cigar shape is pretty universal. Nor is a hooded nib.

 

A true knockoff is something that apes a design so closely you could argue it violates copyright.

 

In that vein, I'd wager the hero 703 is a knockoff of the cross spire. Really, all that's different is the number of twists to uncap and the clip. It's otherwise a clone. But it has a 10k nib, takes a standard converter, and is a damn good pen for 30 bucks. It also comes in a nicer box than the spire (and in some ways it's a better pen, and at worst an equal. I think it might be better than the spire, honestly)

 

There's also the wing sung 601. a hard parker 51 vacumatic knockoff. But really, really good

Edited May 15, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[Dip n Scratch]

Which is the closest copy of the P51 in terms of the external dimensions of the pen. In particular the thickness and taper of the section?

I have the genuine article, but the only knock-off P51 I have at the moment is a pair of Jinhao 51A.

They have a ball-end clip & a chrome-plated 'jewel'. They are cartridge/converter pens.

 

Pictures, or I don't have 'em. Right.

 

The upper J51A has a wooden barrel & you can see a blue J51A uncapped and my black genuine Parker 51

[JonB55198]

 

Agreed.

I think the Hero 616 is a very faithful copy of the 51- but, (imho) far better is the Wing Sung 613, which is actually a very good pen, yet still only costs around £3 - £4.

 

Unlike the Hero, it has a (removable) piston fill (whereas the Hero has the same aerometric filler as the 51), but otherwise the 613 is an exact copy of the 51 - even the same size (Hero is slightly smaller).

I've had one for a long time - only recently lost it somewhwere. It was very reliable and a decent writer. I think I'll get another.

 

Also available as a vacumatic!

 

I just got a 613 in yellow. I didn't have that pen yet. When you say that it is also available as a vac, do you mean the 601?

[Honeybadgers]

I still just can't swing the praises of the 601 enough. Damned fine pen, perfect balance, the fine bent nibs are stellar writers, and they're super solid.

[CS388]

Which is the closest copy of the P51 in terms of the external dimensions of the pen. In particular the thickness and taper of the section?

I have the genuine article, but the only knock-off P51 I have at the moment is a pair of Jinhao 51A.

They have a ball-end clip & a chrome-plated 'jewel'. They are cartridge/converter pens.

 

Pictures, or I don't have 'em. Right.

 

The upper J51A has a wooden barrel & you can see a blue J51A uncapped and my black genuine Parker 51

 

The Wing Sung is the best knock-off of the Parker 51. The copyright is expired, so it's not illegal. Very good copies.

The 601 is the vacumatic copy and the 613 is the aeromatic copy (but has a screw piston c/c.)

Great pens.

Very reliable and great worker pens..

But, not as good as the original P51's, in lucite, of course. And you don't get the 14k nibs.

But, available at a fraction of the price.

 

Enjoy.

[CS388]

 

I just got a 613 in yellow. I didn't have that pen yet. When you say that it is also available as a vac, do you mean the 601?

 

Yes, that's correct.

Never tried the vac version (601), yet. But, have every faith in the Wing Sung build quality/mimicry etc.

 

Enjoy.

[CS388]

The fact that the original P51's used lucite, rather than plastic, (and 14k nibs) makes quite a difference in feel/weight/handling etc.

Otherwise, the Wind Sung's are great user pens. Highly recommended, if you don't have any P51's.

Eventually, you will buy a 51. Nothing beats it. But, the Wing Sung's are still worth a punt. Great value for money.

 

Enjoy.

[Barry Gabay]

What an interesting question, von Manstein! Thank you for making me think. I agree with you that the Sailor King of Pen is a wonderful fountain pen which is very similar in appearance to the Montblanc 149. I own & enjoy several of each model. In fact, I first bought a KoP because I have always liked cartridge fillers and also love the 149 for its size, performance, and beauty. The KoP satisfied my desire for a cartridge-fill 149. . . or a close approximation.

 

I also agree with several people who have written in thinking that except for the pocket clip and barrel tassie, the Hero 100 is a great imitation of the Parker 51. While certainly not a 51, in its price range, the 100 is a very good fountain pen.

 

Thanks again for such a stimulating question.

Enjoy your weekend.

Best wishes,

Barry

[Mech-for-i]

The real Chinese Paker 51 knock off is the original ( and rare ) Wolff " 100 Hero " ( the model name in quote ), and then it manifest later as the Hero " 100 " and together and paired with Hero's own 616 ; I would definitely agree they made up one of the greatest if not the greatest knock off , not necessarily the best in term of craftsmanship, and quality but by sheer volume of pens made and quantity of them that made it to the hands of end users, and still do, and for most part its functioning as it intent were, not as we hobbyist desired, but as a PEN .. a writing workhorse .. by that measure it cannot be denied the best nomenclature

 

 

I agree that Mont Blanc used the Balance for inspiration. My OS Balance from the early 30's is unmistakably the forefather to the 149. Not only are the shapes of the pens similar, but the use of plastics was an innovation by Sheaffer that was copied by all of the manufacturers, including MB.

 

Dave

 

Indeed, the US pen makers in that era generally pioneer in material, and overall general styling alike

[jayKellner]

I'll drop a BOMB here, as I don't want to engage into the cigar pen discussion....and for the Hero, well, they had the Parker license, I think a knock-off can be regarded as so when you just go and copy, or get really inspired by, not when you are in possession of the tools and molds to make a certain model of some brand. Parkers have been made all over the world.
So I shall drop here a different one for the discussion :

The legendary Pilot Murex is heavily inspired by the Parker T-1 from the 60s. There's even a rare model of the T-1 from the 70s that's made in Titanium. Don't get confused with the Pilot MYU, which came first (not first to the Falcon but to the Murex)........I prefer the MYU, which has a nicer design, proportions are better. Subsequently the idea of the MYU got into other Japanese makers that started to do this short pocket pens. The Murex is a normal size pen, while the MYU is (if you don't know it) a short pen as is the Kaweco sport, for instance, but the cap/barrel relation is better, both aesthetically and functionally speaking.
I think as we say here that you are not a true petrol head until you own an Alfa Romeo, I think a true pen-head has to have a MYU at one point in the collection. Even if its inspired by the T-1, its just better.
Any idea when the knock-off gave birth to a better pen? This one could be a case.
You don't see pens like that anymore....I'm tired of young and old makers doing this boring acrylic colorful pens..........Looking at a MYU is refreshing.

 

Jay

PD

I like the term Pen-Head by the way.

I like the term Pen-Head by the way.

[Freddy]

".....and for the Hero, well, they had the Parker license,"

Citation{s} Re Above.............................................

Fred

[Mech-for-i]

 

sorry wrong post .. mis typing on the keyboard

Edited August 22, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[Mech-for-i]

I'll drop a BOMB here, as I don't want to engage into the cigar pen discussion....and for the Hero, well, they had the Parker license, I think a knock-off can be regarded as so when you just go and copy, or get really inspired by, not when you are in possession of the tools and molds to make a certain model of some brand. Parkers have been made all over the world.

So I shall drop here a different one for the discussion :

 

The legendary Pilot Murex is heavily inspired by the Parker T-1 from the 60s. There's even a rare model of the T-1 from the 70s that's made in Titanium. Don't get confused with the Pilot MYU, which came first (not first to the Falcon but to the Murex)........I prefer the MYU, which has a nicer design, proportions are better. Subsequently the idea of the MYU got into other Japanese makers that started to do this short pocket pens. The Murex is a normal size pen, while the MYU is (if you don't know it) a short pen as is the Kaweco sport, for instance, but the cap/barrel relation is better, both aesthetically and functionally speaking.

I think as we say here that you are not a true petrol head until you own an Alfa Romeo, I think a true pen-head has to have a MYU at one point in the collection. Even if its inspired by the T-1, its just better.

Any idea when the knock-off gave birth to a better pen? This one could be a case.

You don't see pens like that anymore....I'm tired of young and old makers doing this boring acrylic colorful pens..........Looking at a MYU is refreshing.

 

...

 

That I had to agree totally

[Freddy]

Since you concur with jayKellner.....Perhaps you can provide Citation{s} Re: "and for Hero, well, they had the Parker license."

Thanking you and jay.......

Fred

[jayKellner]

Since you concur with jayKellner.....Perhaps you can provide Citation{s} Re: "and for Hero, well, they had the Parker license."

Thanking you and jay.......

Fred

Well Fred, I just did two things in one, my view on the knock-off subject, as what a knock-off pen should be, and my very personal view on what's for me the best knock-off ever made.

I think a great knock-off has to be something that is not a falsification, lets say, gets to even overshadow the original. In that regard, to me, the Pilot MYU is that.

 

jay

[Freddy]

Well Fred, I just did two things in one, my view on the knock-off subject, as what a knock-off pen should be, and my very personal view on what's for me the best knock-off ever made.

I think a great knock-off has to be something that is not a falsification, lets say, gets to even overshadow the original. In that regard, to me, the Pilot MYU is that.

 

jay

Well.......you're wastin' me time.....No citation{s} Re: ...."and for Hero, well, they had the Parker license"...

Hogwash......ya know bs..................................................

Fred

[jayKellner]

Well.......you're wastin' me time.....No citation{s} Re: ...."and for Hero, well, they had the Parker license"...

Hogwash......ya know bs..................................................

Fred

I don't understand your obsession with the form, better go for the content.

 

 

[4lex]

Subsequently the idea of the MYU got into other Japanese makers that started to do this short pocket pens.

 

I like the term Pen-Head by the way.

 

I dont think Myu inspired long/short pen format popular in 1960s and 70s Japan. Myu came out in 1971. Best known pen in this format is Pilot Elite. It was launched in 1968. I have Platinum Pen in this format with Old Platinum logo so it had to be launched before 1962.

[jayKellner]

Subsequently the idea of the MYU got into other Japanese makers that started to do this short pocket pens.

 

I like the term Pen-Head by the way.

 

I dont think Myu inspired long/short pen format popular in 1960s and 70s Japan. Myu came out in 1971. Best known pen in this format is Pilot Elite. It was launched in 1968. I have Platinum Pen in this format with Old Platinum logo so it had to be launched before 1962.

Yes, the platinum, I was not sure it that one came before or after.........Seems you have quite a lot of these pens. Congratulations.

[txomsy]

Re: the license from Parker to Hero, simply google it up. There is a nice history of how it all went out, with plenty of detail on how Parker visited Hero's premises, the tests and quality controls they demanded, etc... and how it all finished in the end. Just google.