Yard-O-Led Value - New Prices

[TheRedBeard]

5 hours ago, northlodge said:

You will struggle to find another!

 

Onoto might be a reasonable shout, but it is not De La Rue.

 

Conway Stewart is no more linked to the original company than my home turned "s.175  reversed cracked ice" is to the original Curzon company (tongue in cheek)

Onoto is no longer a British-owned company as it was sold to Chinese in 2016...

[TheRedBeard]

4 hours ago, sgphototn said:

While YOL is a luxury pen (I no longer use the term "grail pen") basically any pen over $25 is a luxury pen. As there are many pens which will write well and last at that price point and under, whether you like them or not, it is now about the luxury one wants.

 

Compared to many other pens below and above the price of a YOL, I find it satisfying to use for many subjective reasons. I've also bought no other high-dollar luxury pens since. Had I bought it sooner, my pen collection would be much smaller.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say any pen priced over $25 may be considered as luxury because a lot of rubbish can be purchased for $30-50 nowadays... But luxury criteria are very personal, so I will not argue on that...

My main collection are Parkers, and I've not bought my first YOL yet, but will definitely do in a near future...

 

[Karmachanic]

5 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

Onoto is no longer a British-owned company as it was sold to Chinese in 2016...

 

Still made in England, no?

[sgphototn]

Just now, TheRedBeard said:

I wouldn't say any pen priced over $25 may be considered as luxury because a lot of rubbish can be purchased for $30-50 nowadays... But luxury criteria are very personal, so I will not argue on that...

My main collection are Parkers, and I've not bought my first YOL yet, but will definitely do in a near future...

 

I meant "luxury" in the sense that there are many pens that can and do write well for under $25 and I have some. If I never had another pen but those I could write anything I needed to with those pens. That's what I call the baseline of suitability. 

 

To me, anything above that baseline is in someway a luxury. It might be desired, it might be simple marketing hype as are many pens, or someone may claim it is a necessity.

 

There's nothing wrong with luxury. I engage in it all the time. But pinto beans and cornbread is just as good and nutritious as a Wagyu steak. 

 

As Charles Portis wrote in True Grit, "Enough is as good as a feast."

[TheRedBeard]

7 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Still made in England, no?

I've not seen marking on the most recent pens so far...

[TheRedBeard]

5 minutes ago, sgphototn said:

I meant "luxury" in the sense that there are many pens that can and do write well for under $25 and I have some. If I never had another pen but those I could write anything I needed to with those pens. That's what I call the baseline of suitability. 

 

To me, anything above that baseline is in someway a luxury. It might be desired, it might be simple marketing hype as are many pens, or someone may claim it is a necessity.

 

There's nothing wrong with luxury. I engage in it all the time. But pinto beans and cornbread is just as good and nutritious as a Wagyu steak. 

 

As Charles Portis wrote in True Grit, "Enough is as good as a feast."

Thanks for clarification, noted and understood :)

[northlodge]

1 hour ago, TheRedBeard said:

Onoto is no longer a British-owned company as it was sold to Chinese in 2016...

 

The original question was about vintage British manufacturers, and I was not warm on Onoto (as it was not DLR)

 

However the modern Onoto might well argue that who owns the company is immaterial, because as their website still says today:

 

Each Onoto pen is hand-made by a small team of goldsmith jewellers and pen-masters in England who have been refining age-old pen-making techniques to create exclusive works of art.   

 

So if this is to be believed then the pens remain English crafted...... but the prices are over inflated in my view

[TheRedBeard]

10 minutes ago, northlodge said:

 

The original question was about vintage British manufacturers, and I was not warm on Onoto (as it was not DLR)

 

However the modern Onoto might well argue that who owns the company is immaterial, because as their website still says today:

 

Each Onoto pen is hand-made by a small team of goldsmith jewellers and pen-masters in England who have been refining age-old pen-making techniques to create exclusive works of art.   

 

So if this is to be believed then the pens remain English crafted...... but the prices are over inflated in my view

Oh, yes, I agree Onoto DLR and the modern Onoto are different things, no argument at all :)

 

And yes, it is stated that their pens are still hand-made here in England, and I do not try to dispute that either. 

 

Well, it is fine to say that in globalisation era ownership of business does not matter... And yes it is generally true for large corporate world...

 

However, in some sectors (especially ones dealing with luxury hand-crafted/hand-made products)

personality, cultural and historical background and origin of owners actually matter as that may start affecting a particular business more or less at some point in the future...

You can easily find examples in watch or car manufacturing, jewellery, etc.

 

Let's see where modern Onoto will be in, say, five years from now.

 

All the above is just my personal observations...

 

 

[1nkulus]

On 9/22/2020 at 2:45 AM, RJS said:

I inherited a Yard-o-Led pencil from my grandfather when I was a child, and always intended on buying a brand new copy the Grand Viceroy Victorian at some point. Nearly did about 4 years ago but put the cash towards a jolly nice holiday instead. Now I'm in the position to buy one, but I see prices have doubled, or more than doubled. Whilst I could still buy it, my perceived value of it isn't that high, and it feels like an unfair move by the owner.

Shame about the price jump, it is now retailing for £1250.  

I too agree the perceived value has diminished.

 

Are you still pursuing a YoL?

[RJS]

5 hours ago, 1nkulus said:

Shame about the price jump, it is now retailing for £1250.  

I too agree the perceived value has diminished.

 

Are you still pursuing a YoL?

Nope. I owned a rather beat up second hand standard Viceroy a few years ago, and sold it- heavy and fairly narrow didn't bring me writing pleasure. The wider Grand Viceroy would be appealing, but it's very heavy and I may or may not actually enjoy using it.

 

I'd still rather like a brand new pencil, but honestly most patterns look to have been made with speed in mind. The Victorian pencil is pretty, but it is now £410. Luckily, the second hand market remains busy and affordable.

[TheRedBeard]

9 hours ago, 1nkulus said:

Shame about the price jump, it is now retailing for £1250.  

I too agree the perceived value has diminished.

 

Are you still pursuing a YoL?

Well.. I'm still pursuing YoL regardless of prices...

For me it is the only brand apart from Parker I want to have in my pen collection.

But I am not in rush  

 

[1nkulus]

6 hours ago, RJS said:

 Luckily, the second hand market remains busy and affordable.

I too hope to acquire a YoL pencil, the Perfecta Victorian.

 

The Grand is wider and a lot heavier. Standard 32g vs Grand 65g.

F/M/B are the only nib sizes across the board else it is a visit to the nibmeister.

 

The Victorian design is unique and only offered by YoL, hence unmistakable. Barley design, looks mundane in comparison.

 

2 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

But I am not in rush

Wait and watch should get you something more reasonable. 

Luckily, patience seems to be a dwindling virtue so you already have a head start. 

 

 

[RJS]

2 hours ago, 1nkulus said:

I too hope to acquire a YoL pencil, the Perfecta Victorian.

Attached below is my inherited Diplomat pencil (picture pinched off Google):

 

I intended to buy the Victorian Diplomat, but they removed it from their lineup in favour of the less time consuming models. The Perfecta Victorian would be my second choice, but it's nearly double the price the Diplomat Victorian was only 5 years ago. 😬

 

 

[RJS]

2 hours ago, 1nkulus said:

The Grand is wider and a lot heavier. Standard 32g vs Grand 65g.

F/M/B are the only nib sizes across the board else it is a visit to the nibmeister

Ok, wow, that's a greater weight difference than I expected. I'm surprised that is all the Standard weighs- my memory had it pegged heavier. I guess it was just heavy for how skinny it is (especially the section). The width on the Grand is much more comfortable, but that's a beast weight wise.

[inkstainedruth]

I'm just worried that if I do ever get to the point of being able to afford a Viceroy Victorian Standard (it's pretty much the "when I win the lottery" pen) 32 grams will be too heavy for me to be comfortable to use (I had to work my way up to the 28 grams weight of my two TWSBIs -- the 580-AL and 580-ALR).

And I don't want the Pocket pen size because those are cartridge-only; I hate refilling empty cartridges with a passion.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[RJS]

10 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

I'm just worried that if I do ever get to the point of being able to afford a Viceroy Victorian Standard (it's pretty much the "when I win the lottery" pen) 32 grams will be too heavy for me to be comfortable to use (I had to work my way up to the 28 grams weight of my two TWSBIs -- the 580-AL and 580-ALR).

And I don't want the Pocket pen size because those are cartridge-only; I hate refilling empty cartridges with a passion.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

That's a pity you don't fancy the pocket pen- it looks more comfortable to hold than the standard does... (photo from S. Brown)

 

 

[RJS]

Holy moly, the Viceroy standard is £1,000 now. 😬 Reviews from only a few years ago suggest it could be had for more like £300. That's mad. Quality control also seems to feature in reviews, and the nibs appear hit and miss. I want to love this brand because their (Victorian design) pens are so unique, but it's hard to love them.

 

Edit: The £1,000 price is mentioned in the first post in this thread. Apparently I'm impressed and shocked all over again 😅

[1nkulus]

47 minutes ago, RJS said:

Holy moly, the Viceroy standard is £1,000 now. 😬 Reviews from only a few years ago suggest it could be had for more like £300. That's mad. Quality control also seems to feature in reviews, and the nibs appear hit and miss. I want to love this brand because their (Victorian design) pens are so unique, but it's hard to love them.

 

Edit: The £1,000 price is mentioned in the first post in this thread. Apparently I'm impressed and shocked all over again 😅

The Grand is a beast and makes a great statement compared to other brands IMO.

Pricing is just 25% more than the Standard. 

 

The nibs are from JoWo but I had thought they were Bock.

IMO, the Victorian design is the only one worth buying as it is unique to YoL.

[1nkulus]

2 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

I'm just worried that if I do ever get to the point of being able to afford a Viceroy Victorian Standard (it's pretty much the "when I win the lottery" pen) 32 grams will be too heavy for me to be comfortable to use (I had to work my way up to the 28 grams weight of my two TWSBIs -- the 580-AL and 580-ALR).

And I don't want the Pocket pen size because those are cartridge-only; I hate refilling empty cartridges with a passion.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

IIRC, you do have some nice pens including Pelikan.

IMO, you aren't missing much apart from heft and 'statement'. For the pricing, I too would keep it in the 'win lottery' category.

 

OTOH, have you faced any issues with your 580? I got rid of mine.

 

[inkstainedruth]

Because the piston doesn't extend all the way to the back of the feed, sometimes I have trouble with air bubbles impeding ink flow when the pen gets low.  The section on the AL is discolored from soaking it in ammonia solution; and because of the grooves on the section on the ALR, I have trouble getting it wiped clean after filling.  

But the problems people in the past talked about with the plastic cracking?  I haven't had that at all -- even after accidentally dropping one on the sidewalk.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth