Stipula Etruria Photo Thread

[como]

On 2/6/2021 at 6:14 AM, dominicmcc said:

I’ve been following this thread for a while and always admire the beauty of each pen posted. I joined the Faceted Etruria club today when these beauties arrived. The Champagne version is new from Pen Venture, and the Rosso Verde is pre-owned. I’ve also gone ahead and ordered a Cracked Ice version from Pen Venture already... 

 

Keep those Etruria pics coming!  
 

 

@dominicmcc:They are beautiful! Congratulations and enjoy! 

@RubenDh:You must have seen the Alter Ego also, along with the Cracked Ice. I heard that Stilograph Corsani will do a batch of the same Champagne/Havana Brown faceted. By the pricing of Cracked Ice, I guess that resin version won’t be a bargain either 🙂. I will have to admire the photos here for a while. 

[dominicmcc]

6 hours ago, como said:

@dominicmcc:They are beautiful! Congratulations and enjoy! 

@RubenDh:You must have seen the Alter Ego also, along with the Cracked Ice. I heard that Stilograph Corsani will do a batch of the same Champagne/Havana Brown feceted. By the pricing of Cracked Ice, I guess that resin version won’t be a bargain either 🙂. I will have to admire the photos here for a while. 

Thank you both! I also wish they made some more reasonably priced resin versions. I’m not sure why they doubled the price of the celluloid versions either, but they’re so hard to find, I guess they have a captive market of enthusiasts who want them and will pay. 

[RubenDh]

27 minutes ago, dominicmcc said:

Thank you both! I also wish they made some more reasonably priced resin versions. I’m not sure why they doubled the price of the celluloid versions either, but they’re so hard to find, I guess they have a captive market of enthusiasts who want them and will pay. 

 

I think it has to do with the with the scarcity of those celluloid rods. Those materials haven't been made in many many years, so they're extremely limited and are about to run out. For ever. If I remember correctly, Emy of Pen Venture even had to seduce Stipula to use celluloid Facetted Etruria parts (grips,...) that normally would be used for repairs / guarantees, in their new release!

 

I've never had the chance (yet) to use one the Facetted Etruria pens,  but I have my hopes up for a cheaper (injection molded?) Facetted Etruria with a steel nib!  

[wimg]

2 hours ago, RubenDh said:

 

I think it has to do with the with the scarcity of those celluloid rods. Those materials haven't been made in many many years, so they're extremely limited and are about to run out. For ever. If I remember correctly, Emy of Pen Venture even had to seduce Stipula to use celluloid Facetted Etruria parts (grips,...) that normally would be used for repairs / guarantees, in their new release!

 

I've never had the chance (yet) to use one the Facetted Etruria pens,  but I have my hopes up for a cheaper (injection molded?) Facetted Etruria with a steel nib!  

AFAIK, Stipula does not make injection molded pens. The problem with that is that the investment in equipement isn't the cheapest, and they are not a very large manufacturer, so it doesn't pay to invest in that type of machinery.

 

As to Celluloid: that has always been expensive as a material, as it is not only very dangerous to make and requires very specialized equipement, it also needs curing, which can take up to two or three years before it si even ready to be used to create blanks for pen production.

 

Also, the last factory where they made this stuff in the Western world (in Italy), closed production down a couple of years ago. The demand was too little and security restrictions and new equipement too expensive to continu with the process. These days, with engineering plastics almost anythign can be doen that could eb doen with celluloid, whether nitrate or acetate anyway.

 

BTW, the factory where they created this material, is known for its expensive materials for spectacle frames and such, including the famous (plastic and celluloid) tortoise-like material frames. Basically, plates of this material were cut up into square blanks for pens.

 

A very nice material that this factory produced some time as a one-off, was used fo rour FPN LE of a few years ago, well, ok, 2015, which was produced for us by CONID in Antwerp.

 

Stipula did produce a bunch of LEs for us as well in 2012 - 2013, which was the FPN LE-set prior to that one. 2012 was the first year they did facetted Etrurias, BTW. I visited the factory back then and saw it happening :).

 

I wouldn't actually mind designing and getting another FPN LE from Stipula produced for us, but I think the cost would be too high. Just trying to get a completely new series done at 50 each proved to be impossible, as they'd need to be paid up front. I did a few designs based on old fashioned inks with very special clips etc., but i never got more than three takers - that was priced at around 500 euros each, and each pen would require a minimum of 50 pieces.

 

 

Anyway, This demonstrator with all the extra cast metal would probably be 1000 euros + now ...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[RubenDh]

18 hours ago, wimg said:

AFAIK, Stipula does not make injection molded pens. The problem with that is that the investment in equipement isn't the cheapest, and they are not a very large manufacturer, so it doesn't pay to invest in that type of machinery.

 

Hmmmm, well I think that new line of pens (the Adagio) is actually made with injection molded resin. Perhaps they already invested in such injection molding machines? The "only" investment cost would be to develop the mould for the Facetted Etruria. 

 

18 hours ago, wimg said:

BTW, the factory whee they created this material, is known for its expensive materials for spectacle frames and such, including the famous (plastic and celluloid) tortoise-like material frames. Basically, plates of this material were cut up into square blanks for pens.

 

 

Indeed. In a recent public Q&A with YAFA, Luca from Stipula shed some light on this matter. He mentioned that celluloid is still produced but in plates that are too thin to be used for pens. He hopes to convince producers to make thicker plates, suitable for pens, but would need to form some kind of group with bigger purchasing power.

 

18 hours ago, wimg said:

2012 was the first year they did facetted Etrurias, BTW

 

I actually didn't know that! Thank you.

 

18 hours ago, wimg said:

I wouldn't actually mind designing and getting another FPN LE from Stipula produced for us, but I think the cost would be too high. Just trying to get a completely new series done at 50 each proved to be impossible, as they'd need to be paid up front. I did a few designs based on old fashioned inks with very special clips etc., but i never got more than three takers - that was priced at around 500 euros each, and each pen would require a minimum of 50 pieces.

 

Well it could be that pens of 500 euros or more were less common back then. Perhaps replacing the gold nib with a steel nib could bring the cost back? Count me in if it works out some day  

 

Ik hoop om de Stipula fabriek ook te bezoeken, eens COVID-19 gepasseerd is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fpupulin]

On 2/5/2021 at 11:14 PM, dominicmcc said:

I’ve been following this thread for a while and always admire the beauty of each pen posted. I joined the Faceted Etruria club today when these beauties arrived. The Champagne version is new from Pen Venture, and the Rosso Verde is pre-owned. I’ve also gone ahead and ordered a Cracked Ice version from Pen Venture already... 

 

Keep those Etruria pics coming!  
 

 

 

I did not know about Pen Venture's retailing of these splendid faceted Stipulas! Thank you and Ruben for the information.

 

Your pen in Champagne celluloid is perhaps the most beautiful of the gorgeous trio, but I had a look at the Cracked Ice, and it is simply... well, superb! A very desirable pen.

 

Pens made with Italian celluloid are destined to become scarcer and scarcer, and the very interesting resins that I saw used recently by several brands in their pens are undoubtedly approaching the beauty of celluloid, even though they still lack the extraordinary deepness and "inner light" of the true celluloid. But, for sure, pens in true celluloid are becoming excessively expensive. 

[como]

@wimgVery interesting insider information! I like your design of the fat clip 🙂. A well made demo will surely be expensive: the traditional pen turning craftsmanship, the sterling silver or vermeil plus the labour intensive barrel inner wall polishing... I remember Delta had some too, also not cheap!

@RubenDhI think Stipula can still produce very attractive pens at €150-200, such as the steel nib Miele Selvatico. Perhaps they will do more of that. Hummm, I wonder if the Rainbow series is injection molded or solid bar turned.

@fpupulinThese new Stipula celluloid pens are being sold at prices similar to desirable Omas celluloid pens, with the exception of Arco. Though the prices are quite steep, who can say that Havana Brown is less beautiful than Wild, Saffron Blue, Lucens etc... oh the seducing power of celluloid.

[fpupulin]

2 hours ago, como said:

@fpupulinThese new Stipula celluloid pens are being sold at prices similar to desirable Omas celluloid pens, with the exception of Arco. Though the prices are quite steep, who can say that Havana Brown is less beautiful than Wild, Saffron Blue, Lucens etc... oh the seducing power of celluloid.

 

I absolutely agree with you about the Stipula celluloids being so much beautiful as some of the old OMAS' materials. But as they fetch similar prices as the old OMAS pens, in my opinion they are, as well as those, very highly priced.

 

When you look at the Miele Selvatico, you can see how, from the point of view of the work necessary to produce and commercialize a noteworthy pen, you can maintain the price in the range of the 200-300 Euros. The 500 Euros difference for those beautiful faceted Stipulas should then due to the "rarer" material, and is really a steep price to pay...

[wimg]

27 minutes ago, fpupulin said:

 

I absolutely agree with you about the Stipula celluloids being so much beautiful as some of the old OMAS' materials. But as they fetch similar prices as the old OMAS pens, in my opinion they are, as well as those, very highly priced.

 

When you look at the Miele Selvatico, you can see how, from the point of view of the work necessary to produce and commercialize a noteworthy pen, you can maintain the price in the range of the 200-300 Euros. The 500 Euros difference for those beautiful faceted Stipulas should then due to the "rarer" material, and is really a steep price to pay...

I would like to disagree with you.

 

It is not just the cost of the materials, but the special shape of the pen, plus the "rings" of both the material, 5 narrow ones + 1 wider one, plus the 6 thin metal ones in the octagonal pattern, plus the manual labour involved, the QA, etc., in combination with the limited quantities that are made of these that make these pens expensive.

 

I had another look at the photographs I made in September 2012, and they also were makign soem wooden Etrurias back then. I then remembered, that those were relatively easy to make, because it was a material that was very easy to deal with and handle.

 

I actually have a limited edition, # 2 of 5, of oen of these octagonal pens, from a few years later, and I know what it cost back then (well over a grand, from a pen retailer in the USA). I also happen to know what Stipula more or less makes on pens like these, and I can assure that it is not a lot, percentage-wise. I know because I tried being a distributor for them for a while, just that playing banker with interest-free loans to pen retailers was not something I could make a living of.

 

Remeber, I also designed quite a bunch of pens for FPN, and at the price we sold them, we made about 6% to 8%, with all hours worked to get this done were all volunteer hours. Just my own hours with these pens, were well over a year's worth of man hours. IOW, if you look at it in earnest, it wasn't really worth the trouble, other than getting FPN's name out there.

 

Oh, I also have a few ideas about OMAS, as I owned two, but I won't say a thing about them here, as this is a Stipula topic, other then, give me a Stipula any day.

 

Just FYI, and sorry if I sound a little passionate :).

 

Warm regards, Wim

[fpupulin]

Dear Wim, thank you for your informative and passionate answer.

 

Maybe, you are right, I have compared apples with oranges. Let me try to correct the example to clarify my thoughts.

 

Couple of years ago, I bought from a merchant in Italy  a Stipula Etruria Magnifica Miele Selvatico,for 185 Euros. It is a cartridge/converter pen, in resin, with a T-FLEX nib.

 

The year before, during my summer holidays in Italy, I bought in a shop in Milan a Stipula Etruria in Amber celluloid, for a bit less than 600 Euros. It is also a c/c pen, and also fitted with a T-FLEX nib, even though I think it has sterling silver trims.

 

So, there were 400 Euros (almost 500 USD dollars) difference between the two pens, that substantially differs only for their materials, as they have the same shape (actually the Magnifica is a bit larger), use the same filling mechanisms and the same nib.

 

Sincerely, Wim, I have no idea how much a celluloid rod may cost, but 500 dollars are a steep price difference, in my opinion.

[como]

Dear @fpupulinFranco and @wimgWim,

 

i read with great enthusiasm both your posts. What we discussed here perhaps touched an important topic in the pen industry in general. Somewhere along the lines of aggregated high costs of making celluloid pens with artisanal details, shrinking demand of fountain pens by general public, and heavy burden of legacy labour cost structure, companies like Omas and Delta were put out of business.

 

Wim, though I do not have your first hand experience working with companies such as Stipula, I can easily imagine what you said. When I look back to the projects by Chatterley Luxuries (Novelli, Corsani, Airline International etc, now Pen Venture) these batches of pens were always done in small number, from several to 50. They were almost always priced high in retail price, whether they were celluloid or demonstrators.

 

Franco, I can see your comparison of the recently high priced celluloid and the Miele Selvatico. I think the comparison is not so easy as it seems. Miele is probably selling a lot more than Havana Brown, by the price difference. I dare to say that if Omas were selling a lot more celluloid back then (and all kinds of other pens), they would not have gone out of business. The fact is that making celluloid pens is a whole a lot more trouble than turning acrylic. I think, without any drastic change, celluloid pens will be a thing of the past, sadly. Those who are still making it happen need to be paid a lot for it. Sometimes it got to the point that it’s just too much, justified or not.

 

The Italian pen industry has gone through some fundamental changes to adapt to the environment to survive snd thrive. What I really miss is the artisanal details of for example sterling silver lost wax technique of the clip bands etc. Celluloid or not, they are doing less with the metal trims details. These high cost labour intensive parts are gone. So are the limited edition commemorating this and that which was a signature thing of Delta and to some extent also Omas. Came lots of colors, steel nibs etc, plus limited high end stuff. It’s going well for them at the moment.

 

i don’t think for a moment that fountain pen business is to make big bucks. I think it’s a beautiful passion which all in it try to make a buck too 🙂 Of course they have to be agile to survive and have a good time. 
 

on a personal note, I am always struggling whenever a thing like that Stipula faceted Havana Brown comes out, hahaha. Probably you too, Franco? Life is no fun without suffering!

 

Warmly,

 

como

 

 

[Chinchy]

I'm late to this thread but a long time ago I purchased an Etruria 991 set (fountain pen and ballpoint pen).  The FP is numbered 302/991 and the BP is numbered 302/391.  I stopped buying fountain pens for almost 2 decades, but now I'm slowly coming back.  These pens have been in storage for about that long, and I never got around to using them...

 

One thing I do remember is that when I first saw it, I was captivated and knew that I had to add it to my collection...

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Chinchy
Can't leave a dangling parenthesis...

[dominicmcc]

@Chinchyyou have a very beautiful set there! 
 

Since my last update, I’ve added two more Faceted Etrurias in Gran Sasso Tibaldi celluloid, and Cracked Ice acrylic. 
 

I have one more on order in Ambrosia celluloid but it won’t be arriving for a while. Seems that Stipula will make the Faceted versions to order from their trusted stores, with about a month lead time. 
 

 

[RubenDh]

40 minutes ago, dominicmcc said:

 

WOW.

 

Really, WOW.

 

This is a very rare and unique set of pens, and IMHO, by far the most beautiful pens made.

 

(is it the me or do the three on the right look skinnier than the Gran Sasso on the left?)

[RubenDh]

@dominicmcc Could you mind posting more pictures of your set? (I.e. of them unposted)? I just think I fell in love again..

[fpupulin]

Maybe it is just my eye, but is seems to me that both the celluloid pens are fatter than their acrylic siblings.

 

The quartetto is splendid, and the combination of different tones really amazing. Congratulations!

 

Many of you already know that I am partial to Montegrappa Extras, which I consider truly contemporary classics (like the Etruria). When they "invented" their Extra Otto, faceted, I was surprised that they were able not to improve, but to made another equally splendid pen on the same theme but with a different shape. Now I have the impression that Stipula made the same. These are pens at the height of the original Etrurias!

[dominicmcc]

@RubenDh@fpupulinYou are both correct that the Gran Sasso and Champagne are ever so slightly larger - I’m yet to measure them properly, but the Gran Sasso may even be slightly larger than the Champagne. I’m not sure why they’d do this as I’d think it would just mandate extra machinery and higher production costs? I initially thought it may be celluloid vs. acrylic, but the Rosso Verde is celluloid and smaller... An enigma (for now)!

 

@fpupulinI’ll take some more glamor shots for you tomorrow. Warning: you may end up drooling over them as much as I have been!

[zchen]

 

I really think Stipula should go the Leonardo route and just keep releasing Etrurias in both sizes with more interesting colors. I'd much rather see Etrurias made with the same material they are using for the Adagios.

[RubenDh]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:19 PM, zchen said:

 

I really think Stipula should go the Leonardo route and just keep releasing Etrurias in both sizes with more interesting colors. I'd much rather see Etrurias made with the same material they are using for the Adagios.

 

Nice pens! I agree, but I *think* that the Adagio is injection molded rather than turned as the Etruria.

[como]

3 minutes ago, RubenDh said:

 

Nice pens! I agree, but I *think* that the Adagio is injection molded rather than turned as the Etruria.

I would guess the same, @RubenDh. At Adagio's price range, it would be virtually impossible to hand turn a faceted pen.