Japanese Fountain Pen Quality Control - Not What It Used To Be?

[Brian C]

Ironically, the Japanese pens (primarily Platinum and Pilot) that I've had issues with were from vendors who adjust the nib prior to shipping; the OOTB ones were perfect.

YES! I have noticed this as well. I've had to send a couple of Nakayas back several times.

[A Smug Dill]

The only Japanese fountain pen ordered and shipped from Japan that I had a problem with was my Platinum Izumo akatame (not exactly cheap!) with an 18K gold F nib. Toothy to the point of being borderline scratchy, but wrote without skipping nevertheless, and delivered fine enough lines for me – slightly more so than the Platinum Izumo soratame (on the same purchase order) of which my fiancée quickly relieved me. It was only recently – that's years later – that I looked at the nib on the akatame under a loupe, and saw that they were slightly misaligned. A quick little bit of manipulation that even I could manage, and now it writes just fine and a lot more smoothly than before.

 

I didn't like any of the soft nibs on the Pilot Custom series pens, but I don't think that was a problem with quality control. The Custom Kaede and 'Hannya Shingyo' pens were great out-of-the-box, as were the Capless Vanishing Points I ordered from Japan (as opposed to the US, from which I will occasionally buy Pilot Capless pens and/or nib assemblies).

 

All my Sailor pens except the US$7 11-0073 desk pens were good (enough) right OOTB. The steel EF nibs on the 11-0073 desk pens were both so scratchy that they were ripping into the surface of my Rhodia Dotpad No.16 paper with just my regular handwriting, but I don't think it's fair for me to therefore conclude Sailor has poor QC. I have eleven new Sailor pens arriving today from Japan, and will be testing maybe four of them, so I'll see how I go with those.

[minddance]

I am not sure what Japanese quality control used to be or should be but I received pens with rather variable nib standards and writing sensations. This is my story:

 

I had a Pilot 912SM in 2015 that absolutely is at odds with papers - you can call it feedbacky or a rough ride, you get the drift. I returned it. I got another one, it is glass smooth with minimal noises while writing. Quite impeccable, given my rough experience with the previous Pilot 912SM.

 

I received 2 Pilot 74SF in 2016, they were terribly feedbacky and terrible flow and I returned them. My friend told me that wasn't the norm so I got another one and while it has a tiny bit of feedback, with a spot of smoothness. I kept it till now because I value the flow and subtle variations in lines I can get out of it - not by flexing but by the 'natural' writing motions.

 

I bought a Pilot74SFM - splendid! No complaints, I use it till today and unwillingly to let go to anyone. There is also a Pilot 74 EF, though slower in flow and frugal amount of ink laid onto paper, it is very very very smooth. Quite a feat for extra fine nibs. Certainly a keeper.

 

I got a Pilot 92B in 2016 and it was so dry and scratchy. When I spread open the tines using both thumbs, the nib got worse - I later learnt that I have revealed the sharp and unfinished inner tines to the writing surface. This is the result of poisonous videos trying to teach people how to increase flow of pens. I returned it very promptly. Very very unbecoming for a broad nib! Why can't they even get a broad nib done right? I understand fine and extra fine nibs require more work and higher precision. But a broad? comeon Pilot.

 

Then I have a Pilot 743FA which was so feedbacky. The roughness of it prevents me from flexing.

 

I had alot more bad experience with Pilot gold nibs but that would make this reply longer than it is now.

 

I had a Sailor 21MF with misaligned tines, and no matter what I did, they just would not align. I returned them but my return was rejected. Vendor claimed it is not a manufacturer's fault. It was certainly scratchy. Yes, scratchy, not just 'feedbacky'. Sailor 21K nibs are difficult to adjust on my own and if they arrive OOTB misaligned, please reject them. These nibs are supposed to be very well-tuned and extremely sensitive to the slightest misalignment.

 

I had a Sailor 14k MF with scratchy nibs, returned them. The next one I got can be considered smooth in Sailor's terms. But certainly not glidey glass smooth. Feedback is present.

 

Then I had super scratchy Platinum 3776M nib - returned it. The next one is blatantly feedback and makes alot of loud noises when writing. This is certainly alot of feedback - almost the feedback of all my pens added up. With slightly heavier writing pressure, it scrapes paper fibres off the page. And it is dry. Being dry doesn't help a pen like this.

 

The broad nib and fine nib of my Platinum 3776 isn't very much better. Dry and feedbacky. Yes, even for a broad nib.

 

Some vendors do not classify these problems as malfunction and might refuse to exchange/refund. Please choose your vendors wisely. Or you will have to either live with a faulty pen or send it to a nibmeister if you cannot handle the problem yourself.

 

I don't know what Japanese quality control is. If quality control is supposed to be good, then my faulty pens must be factory rejects, or the vendors recycle returned/refurbished pens.

 

If anyone tells me Pilot Custom series is supposed to be smooth, I will never believe them. They can be but many are not.

[A Smug Dill]

Well, my shipment containing a dozen Japanese pens arrived from Japan today. So far I've written with five of the new Sailor pens. Of those five, one was not factory-sealed in a clear plastic sleeve and missing the clip tag; and their prices ranged from US$7 to US$179.

 

I'm very glad to say that all of those five write smoothly 'out of the box' (but I did flush and clean each nib as a precaution with new pens).

[putteringpenman]

For what it's worth, I got a Pilot Metropolitan two weeks ago that is writing flawlessly. Over the last two years, I acquired 8 Pilot pens and all but one wrote great out of the box. The one that didn't just needed to be flushed with water and now it writes great too.

[Mech-for-i]

Actually you might put the title as to be pretty much every major European / western and Japanese Mfr ... used them all, seen them all ... there is no denying that recent years seen some pretty obvious down turn for quality of Quality Control ( and likely also workmanship too ) I've had similar experience with Lamy, Sailor, Parker, and pretty much everyone , even big money item from Aurora and Montblanc are not excluded from that ..

 

My latest Japanese surprise come from a Sailor 21K Profit ( standard ) , it just refuse to flow ink .. try flushing, cleaning and everything except pulling the feed and nib and in the end I return it to the seller ( a shop ) and even them , after testing it out had to shake their head over it and I suppose the pen going back to factory or at least the distributor.

[shawnee]

After this thread, I feel like I got off lucky with just one bad nib. For realz. LOL. And now I’m really scared to death about dipping my toe in the Pilot waters. I might just stick with Sailor.

[minddance]

I am starting to wonder if Pilot has 2 or more different factories or do they internally grade the pens, the best for domestic market and the rest for the rest of the world.

 

the feedbacky batch nibs I get are consistently feedback. and I mean SCARY FEEDBACK, blatant and direct like sandpaper, raw and unfinished. the smooth batches are consistently smooth, even a Custom74 Extra Fine (!). there clearly are day and night differences, even within Pilot Custom series. I am not even comparing Custom series to Elite or Vanishing Point.

 

I know some Chinese writers enjoy that kind of feedback and 'control' but to me, that is very off-putting.

 

Has Pilot set up factories in China to also produce some of the gold nibs? I know the Pilot78G+ is produced in China and they write worse than the original Japanese produced ones. they are simply nothing near that old Japanese standard.

Edited February 27, 2019 by minddance

[putteringpenman]

Actually you might put the title as to be pretty much every major European / western and Japanese Mfr ... used them all, seen them all ... there is no denying that recent years seen some pretty obvious down turn for quality of Quality Control ( and likely also workmanship too ) I've had similar experience with Lamy, Sailor, Parker, and pretty much everyone , even big money item from Aurora and Montblanc are not excluded from that ..

 

My latest Japanese surprise come from a Sailor 21K Profit ( standard ) , it just refuse to flow ink .. try flushing, cleaning and everything except pulling the feed and nib and in the end I return it to the seller ( a shop ) and even them , after testing it out had to shake their head over it and I suppose the pen going back to factory or at least the distributor.

 

What inks have you tried in this pen? I had a similar problem with a Pelikan until I put a wetter ink in it. You may want to use a very wet ink to make sure it isn't an issue of a dry pen with a dry ink.

[RM2]

I have found this thread surprising. In the last year or two, I've purchased several Japanese pens from various sources and all of them write well:

 

Three Pilot Custom Heritage 92's that write so nicely (smooth and wet) that I wonder why I've bought any other pens. Two came from ebay direct from Japan, one from pennonia.eu.

 

Five Sailors, 4 Pro Gear Slims and one regular size. They all write exactly how Sailors are supposed to write, from what I've read. Two from came from amazon.de and three from Iguanasell.

 

A Platinum Kanazawa Leaf from Japan (ebay) that at first I did not find impressive, but once I got used to it or broke it in, is now one of my best writers.

 

The only one that has had any problems at all is a used Platinum Shungyo that sometimes hard starts and dries up. I've only inked it up once and suspect it needs flushed out a little more.

 

Maybe I've just gotten lucky. It's also possible I don't know what I'm talking about. Three years ago I only had a few Lamy Safaris.

[NinthSphere]

Actually you might put the title as to be pretty much every major European / western and Japanese Mfr

 

Agreed. My E95S was perfectly fine. All three of my Sailors though, from three sellers & at least two periods of production, arrived misaligned ootb (Which makes me laugh when someone talks up Sailor consistency. Technically true, but not the consistency I was looking for.). Easy fix though, so return was never a thought, & fantastic pens afterward. That just makes them no better than most other new pens of non-Japanese origin I've bought that haven't passed through the hands of a nibmeister before making their way to me. I buy with the expectation of having to sit down & tweak the alignment before use & consider it a pleasant surprise on the occasions when I don't. Not how it should be, but that's what we've got.

[Michael F]

I've bought 4 Platinum 3776 Century pens on Amazon and 3 out of those 4 had either misaligned tines, tines that were much too tight (meaning I had to apply substantial pressure for them to write), or both. The only one that I've kept, the fine nib, had to be adjusted by Mr. Mark Bacas and although he was able to fix the alignment and flow issues, I find the nib to possess too much feedback and be too fine to use on most paper.

 

I bought a Pilot Custom 74 on Amazon that wrote just ok. I wasn't a fan of the soft nib. I bought a Custom 74 with a medium nib from Goulet that wrote very very dry. I had to have that one adjusted too and ended up selling it. I am occasionally tempted to buy another C74 because they are quite smooth when well adjusted, but I think this thread has put that temptation to rest.

 

My very first fountain pen, a Pilot Metropolitan with a medium nib, was absolutely perfect, and performance-wise it is probably the most perfect fountain pen I've ever bought. I have subsequently bought a second one, identical to the first, and it too arrived with no problems whatsoever.

[JunkyardSam]

Prior to this thread I kept hearing people here talk about how Japanese pens are always perfect out of the box. I thought, "Am I crazy? Am I really the only one?"

 

I've purchased around 30 gold nibbed Japanese pens made by Pilot, Sailor, and Platinum. I've purchased from Amazon, from reputable eBay sellers in Japan, and popular US sellers we all know about.

 

What I found is -- it appears to make no difference where the pen comes from, with the rare exception of a premium store that actually checks the pen well before sending it. (I only bought one pen from Tokyo Pen Shop Quill and it was flawless, and he said he 'checked the nib for adequate smoothness and wetness before sending'.")

 

Some of the pens I've purchased have been unusably dry right out of the box. People say, "Well the Japanese like their pens dry, for Japanese writing" -- but that doesn't explain why some of the pens I get are actually too wet, even. Or why most of them are just moderate/normal.

 

No, a pen that is unusably dry is not better for Japanese writing.

 

Platinum has been the worst offender in this regard. I bought a Shungyo SF that just wouldn't write at all, from a very high rated eBay seller I buy through all the time. Then I got a Kumpoo SM from a very popular US retailer. It wouldn't write either! (And I mean literally it was unusable.)

 

In both of those cases the tines were touching so tightly that ink would not flow.

 

I've also owned three 3776 Century UEFs. One was perfect out of the box. Another was too wet, which actually felt amazing because it was like a normal Japanese EF but with slightly more feedback. And then one of them had its tines so incredibly tight that when I moved them during adjustment the tines crossed like you would cross your fingers! There's no reason tines should EVER be that tight... especially tines as firm as the 3776 Century nib.

 

I once bought four Pilot Custom Heritage 91s, F nibs. One of each color available at the time. Once again, they all varied in wetness with one of them not writing at all. Fortunately it was just the tight-tines issue which I've learned how to correct.

 

Then Sailor? My Sailor pens haven't been dry out of the box, but the tipping width and wetness have varied. In fact, my last three purchases of EF, F, and M all produced an IDENTICAL line width... The EF was too wet. The F was normal. And the M was too dry.

 

Then there's my King of Pen. I love it... but the threads feel a little bit tight. Are they all this way? My three 1911s and Pro Gear are not this way. It's fine, but it's just a little bit too snug when capping.

 

And finally - my Lucina Pencil (which is made similarly to the Lucina fountain pen) has a drip in the lacquer(?) around the cap band. It wasn't bad enough that I returned it, but it's an imperfection on an arguably expensive pencil.

 

Oh, and I should mention the first Sailor 1911s that I ordered (from a popular US seller) --- that arrived with severe gold plating issues.

 

In fact - for a full year Sailor produced pens with a process that resulted in many of them having plating issues. Luckily they were good about handing this with warranty service, apparently... and my retailer replaced mine with one that was good.

 

Anyhow -- I don't want to say Japanese pens are worse than other companies by any means... I just want to say they aren't immune to having problems. They are mass produced pens and they aren't all checked before shipping out...

[by78]

_{I think the nib misalignment issue might have something to do with rough handling during shipping. I've had no less than four pens shipped from Japan that arrive with caps loosened or completely uncapped. Two of these had misaligned tines. Another Japanese pen – a Platinum 3776 shipped from California – was dropped by the mailman just when he was at the door. Sure enough, that one was misaligned too. I think many manufacturers should redesign their boxes, especially for pens with gold nibs. Many current box designs have minimal padding and hold pens in place using a single ribbon, which I believe are simply inadequate for the kinds of savage handling they endure on the way to their final destinations.}

 

_{That said, I have noticed a decline in quality of of some Japanese brands over the years. Sailor's decline is the most precipitous. Pilot's lower end pens, including the Custom 74, have some minor quality control issues with their nibs, such as overly tight tines and improperly set feeds; nothing I couldn't fix within a minute or two. Platinum, on the other hand, has stayed pretty consistent for me over the years.}

[awa54]

All of my new purchases of gold nibbed Japanese pens have been satisfactory:

 

Pilot CH91 SM, perfect in all ways, Amazon

Pilot Elabo SF, also perfect, though ink flow is on the heavy side with some inks, Jet pens

Platinum #3776 Gathered F, nib perfect, cap seal a bit loose, Japanese Ebay seller

Sailor Pro Gear Slim (red) M, perfect, Endless pens

Sailor Pro Gear Slim (black) F, perfect, Endless pens

 

I've also bought a number of new steel nib Japanese pens from Sailor and Pilot, all of these have been flawless, within the expected quality parameters of the pens' price point.

 

Seems like I've been lucky?

[mke]

18 hours ago, by78 said:

I think the nib misalignment issue might have something to do with rough handling during shipping.

If the pen is capped than how should this be possible?

If the pen is inside a box or correctly wrapped in bubble plastics than I understand even less how this could happen.

 

I assume that everyone here is talking about new pens, fresh from the factory?

 

I really would like to see the photos people have taken when they claim misalignment of tines. 

 

@JunkyardSam

> gold plating issues

Which parts had problems? And what year was it? You have a photo to show? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[Mercian]

Obviously, every factory in the world is going to produce at least some 'faulty' or 'defective' products, and so they will turn up at every retailer eventually, but over my years on FPN I have seen many reports from many people that they have received pens with unsatisfactory nibs from Amazon.

I confidently expect that people get attracted by the hugely-discounted prices at which Amazon often sells 'expensive' pens (e.g. I am attracted by their occasional discount prices for the Parker Duofold).
I also suspect that Amazon is partly able to offer these pens for sale at such low prices because it buys-up en masse and then re-sells pens that have been previously returned (to other retailers?) by former purchasers.

N.B. I do not know this to be the case, but it seems to me to be a possible explanation for the appearance in the market of so many 'lemons'.
Returned pens would be relatively cheap for Amazon to buy, and Amazon's discounts are often a very significant percentage of the official 'list price', and so make 'expensive' pens more-affordable for more people. Many previously-returned pens will work absolutely perfectly anyway - but I suspect that one is more likely to purchase an imperfect pen if one has bought it at a significant discount from Amazon.

[mke]

That Amazon has a larger number of lemons than other sellers is your first hypothesis. But is that really so? 

I would think that this hypothesis is a shaky foundation for the rest of the explanation.

 

Another one where I am not convinced is that Amazon would buy returned pens. Where is that marketplace for such stuff?

 

Don't you think they wouldn't simply buy a huge batch from the maker? I have heard that makers require that you don't give reductions on some pens for a certain time. I don't think that the pens Amazon buys are under that requirement. So, they simply can give any reduction they want to give.

 

What I could (eventually) believe is that they try to resell their own returned pens.

But, haven't you heard that they often just shred the returned stuff?

If they shred so easily returns, they certainly will not buy returned pens from other sellers.

 

p.s. I have heard that resellers get 50-70% reduction from makers - Amazon might even be better in achieving reductions.

 

 

 

[awa54]

3 hours ago, mke said:

....

 

Don't you think they wouldn't simply buy a huge batch from the maker? I have heard that makers require that you don't give reductions on some pens for a certain time. I don't think that the pens Amazon buys are under that requirement. So, they simply can give any reduction they want to give.

 

What I could (eventually) believe is that they try to resell their own returned pens.

But, haven't you heard that they often just shred the returned stuff?

 

....

 

 

 

I have observed in Amazon sales of Japanese fountain pens, that almost 100% of the items are "sold by XYZPens and fulfilled by Amazon"

What that means, is that XYZPens was the dealer who purchased the pen from the manufacturer, but rather than develop their own E-Commerce site (or in addition to their own), they send items to Amazon, who in turn posts those items on the Amazon web site *as if Amazon is selling them*, when in fact they're just warehousing, collecting payment for and shipping the items on behalf of the original seller (for a fee of course). This is the core concept of "Amazon Marketplace".

This lets Amazon "sell" an enormous number of fairly exclusive and protected brands, without ever holding a dealer agreement with those manufacturers. Most of the companies turn a blind eye to the way their sales and distribution rules are being bent, since they're benefiting from the increased market reach that Amazon affords their products.

 

In cases like that Amazon certainly *won't* be shredding anything, since they don't own it... however they *do* frequently seem to put returned items back into live stock with just a cursory inspection to ensure that the item is not blatantly broken or missing parts/packaging.

 

On a knife forum that I occasionally visit, Amazon is notorious for supplying counterfeit goods, sometimes on behalf of respected and legitimate dealers of the brands in question. What has been hypothesized in that forum, is that two mechanisms are likely at work: first, stock is mingled in the warehouse pick locations, offering the possibility of one seller putting fakes into the pool with genuine items from other sellers of the same stock unit, which Amazon essentially turns a blind eye to (it's a ton of work to keep those warehouse/pick/ship operations running to start with, let alone spot inspect *every single item*).

The second scenario is that buyers may take advantage of Amazon's extremely liberal return policies, to buy a genuine item from Amazon, and replace it with a counterfeit acquired cheaply off Ebay, Alibaba, etc, then return the fake in place of the genuine item. Once returned to stock, the fake (or in the case of the pens being discussed, poorly QCed, or abused by the first buyer) item can be sold a second time with the unlucky second buyer receiving a flawed, damaged or bogus item.

 

 

On another, somewhat related topic, I've noticed on Ebay, that luxury goods such as pens, watches and personal accessories from Japanese sellers, are sometimes double, triple or even full-on multi-listed, sometimes by the same seller, but also often by several different sellers. On one occasion I "purchased" the least expensive of the listings that all shared the same images and description, only to be told two weeks later that the item was "unavailable", thankfully my purchase price was refunded without further action being required...

Still other Japanese sellers who "have" new pens to sell on Ebay play a game, where they go and purchase a pen after you win the auction, stringing the buyer on for as long as several weeks with excuses as to why the item hasn't shipped yet (yes, this is personal experience again).

 

Not to say that I've never seen US Ebay sellers double posting items... Here it's usually a simultaneous "buy it now" for a pie in the sky price, with a parallel open auction for the same item run concurrently by the same seller... more often than not this type of seller will end the open-bid auction early, if they don't like the projected ending bid, saying the item is "no longer available" or "damaged", then re-post it a few weeks later.

 

All of the above are annoying and borderline reprehensible practices that should serve to remind us to appreciate the authorized dealers we do have access to.

It's also good to remember that buying gray market goods is always a fraught endeavor (back in the day it was primarily photo gear and electronics, at least in my case)... if you don't feel lucky and/or can't afford to have the deal go bad, then you shouldn't play the game!

[mke]

1 hour ago, awa54 said:

"sold by XYZPens and fulfilled by Amazon"

Amazon has nothing to do with such a sell. It only provides the logistics. 

 

If someone says, Amazon sells bad pens then this only can be said if it is "sold by Amazon".

Ebay also doesn't sell bad stuff, these are the sellers on the Ebay platform who do.

 

I expected that everyone knows these details and is able to express the difference.

 

Amazon vs seller xy on Amazon Marketplace