Absolute Beginner - Where Do I Invest My Money To Learn This Stuff?

[thesmellofdustafterrain]

I went to the local art supply shop and picked up a couple of speedball holders (one oblique and one traditional) and some pointy nibs with numbers on them like this: 56, 99, 101, & 103. Basically, I bought one of every pointy nib they had in hopes that one of them would be correct for learning. I also bought a small bottle of Winsor and Newton ink which I've been alternating with my dregs bottle of fountain pen ink. I have some scrap paper I've been practising on.

 

I probably have two to three more weeks of attention span for learning this skill if I don't show any aptitude for it. If I start to make progress, then my attention span will swell as positive reinforcement pours into it.

 

Basically, I don't want to spend a lot more money at this stage. I've I'm still going strong at the end of March, then I'll invest more, but there is a bit of cash left for buying supplies. Where do I spend it for the best effect?

 

The goal: to learn Spencerian and when I'm happy with that (maybe a year), to learn copperplate. I want to be good at it with a fountain pen, but the more I read on this site, the more I want to try it with a dip pen because it looks like fun.

 

The secondary goal: to improve my penmanship overall by forcing myself to observe and evaluate how I use a pen and to slow down when writing so that maybe I can write legibly.

 

I started with scratching on some blank paper and eventually downloaded some drills. It's interesting and I'm showing some improvement day to day. But I don't know if it's me or if I've chosen the wrong nibs or paper. I feel like the flex is very strong with these nibs.

 

 

 

 

That's day one and day three. A long way to go, but a better start than I expected.

 

---

 

The question: Is there something I can buy that will make learning this much easier?

 

Is there one element or technique can improve that would make the most difference?

 

A web page suggested G-nibs were good for getting used to how to use a dip pen because they have medium flex but are more forgiving. But you know how the internet is, it will say anything for an affiliate link.

 

Maybe I could get a new pad of paper?

 

Or for the same price, I could invest in an online video class on 'modern calligraphy' which would help me with my basic dip pen skills (I'm not great at learning through videos, but this one might work).

 

I'm thinking nibs... but I don't know enough to know what to ask.

 

Tossing this out there in case someone can point me in the right direction. I have $25 CAD left in this budget (including shipping). Where's the best place to spend it?

[BaronWulfraed]

I went to the local art supply shop and picked up a couple of speedball holders (one oblique and one traditional) and some pointy nibs with numbers on them like this: 56, 99, 101, & 103. Basically, I bought one of every pointy nib they had in hopes that one of them would be correct for learning. I also bought a small bottle of Winsor and Newton ink which I've been alternating with my dregs bottle of fountain pen ink. I have some scrap paper I've been practising on.

 

If you haven't glanced at it, the actual Speedball web site description of those nibs might be of interest: https://www.speedballart.com/our-product-lines/speedball-drawing-lettering/speedball-pen-nibs/speedball-pointed-crowquill-pen-nibs/ (based on that, the #101 would be a candidate for Spencerian -- the #56 sounds like the worst)

(also, maybe https://www.paperinkartsblog.com/2015/04/01/the-copperplate-sampler-nib-by-nib/ can help)

[Ryan5]

Buy some laser printer paper for practice.

 

I advise against the modern calligraphy course. modern calligraphy " is a term for those bouncy scripts that you see everywhere. If you want to learn Spencerian stick with that.

 

Don't buy any new nibs, your speedballs are good enough, there are no short cuts.

 

Practice only 15-20 mins a day, but practice every day.

[thesmellofdustafterrain]

Great!

Thanks for the advice. I'll focus on paper.

 

Is this laser paper? https://www.amazon.ca/AmazonBasics-Bright-Multipurpose-Copy-Paper/dp/B01FV0F75G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1549231382&sr=8-4&keywords=amazonbasic+paper

 

There is so much to learn.

[thesmellofdustafterrain]

Lots of more practice and I'm getting better. But, I'm now half way through my first bottle of ink. Should it be lasting longer? This dip pen does seem to put a lot of ink on the paper. I'm going to up my budget for this hobby because I'm enjoying it.

 

What do I do when the ink level is too low for my dip pen?

 

Should I get a larger bottle of Winsor and Newton ink? Or maybe a different brand?

[Inky.Fingers]

I'd black is okay with you...Get a liter of sumi ink...Will last you forever. Alternatively, people rave about walnut crystal and Arabic gum...Very cheap and goes a long long way.

 

If you like colors...That's home depot (or any paint store ) for a gallon of white paint and dilute to your content.

[thesmellofdustafterrain]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

I like blacks, browns, and sometimes blues.

 

I'll try Sumi ink next as it looks easy to get.

 

Walnut sound fun. How long does it last once it's mixed?

[Ryan5]

I don't know if walnut ink has a shelf life, it lasts a long time.

[JGrad]

If youre still interested, check out Michael Sulls website (https://spencerian.com/index.html) and check out his catalogue. There a a few books you can get as well as practice sheets. You can also visit IMPETHs website for practice sheets https://www.iampeth.com/lessons/guide-sheets. Theres also http://shipbrook.net/guidelines/ which allows you to develop your own sheets with guidelines. You can adjust everything from the x height to diagonal guidelines (Spencerian vs. copperplate). Aside from that, just buy a pen that is comfortable in your hand and will allow you to write a few pages a day.

[elpenguino]

I came here to make all of the suggestions the JGrad made. All are excellent resources. HP Premium Choice 32 lb paper is an great practice paper.

 

Finding inspiration on Instagram is a great way to learn tips and tricks.

 

At some point finding someone to take a class with is super helpful. Enjoy the journey. Practice, practice, practice.

[TSherbs]

...there are no short cuts.

truth

[Incongruent]

I would get an oblique with a flange for Spencerian.

Studying the philosophy and stuff behind Spencerian helps a lot. For example, shades are meant to be short and snappy. (In contrast to roundhand, etc.)

 

Since writing with a dip pen isn’t practical most of the time, I’d also get a nice fine fountain pen (if you don’t have one already) for everyday writing. I use a Pilot Metro F stuck in a Pilot Penmanship/Plumix. You can get more practice writing in (unshaded) Spencerian and get used to using arm movement and the shapes involved doing so.

 

Spencerian drills are different. I think there are some in that book (vvv) but I don’t know of any collections of just drills.

 

Bloser’s Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship is a good read (pdf online).

 

Finding a community to motivate you or some friends helps if/when you get tired of being bad. You will be bad. If you don’t think you’re bad, you need to study the script because you’re not seeing your mistakes. And that’s how it’ll go for at least several months. As a result, you don’t feel like you’re improving. Success comes when other people can’t tell... and that’s when you get motivation.

 

Don’t be afraid to copy work.

[txomsy]

A few suggestions: it is more important to keep the line straight and the letters uniform (in size,in spacing and in shape) than to choose one or other script.

 

Do not overdo it, try to quit each day before being tired, while you still feel like going on. This will help you keep interested.

 

Keep your exercises. Then after each week, compare, this will show you how much you have improved, 'cos otherwise it is difficult to tell and you may despair when you are actually getting better.

 

Looking at past exercises will help you learn to identify errors, and then it will come natural to you so that you'll see them while writing and later even to foresee them and avoid them

[Autiflip]

A few suggestions: it is more important to keep the line straight and the letters uniform (in size,in spacing and in shape) than to choose one or other script.

 

Do not overdo it, try to quit each day before being tired, while you still feel like going on. This will help you keep interested.

 

Keep your exercises. Then after each week, compare, this will show you how much you have improved, 'cos otherwise it is difficult to tell and you may despair when you are actually getting better.

 

Looking at past exercises will help you learn to identify errors, and then it will come natural to you so that you'll see them while writing and later even to foresee them and avoid them

This is the best advise I've seen in a long time

[txomsy]

Thanks, Autiflip. I only wanted to provide some general advice that works with whichever hand one tries. Of course, it does not substitute all the other great advice provided in the thread.

[AAAndrew]

Walnut ink comes in pre-mixed bottles and crystals. I prefer the crystals because it is much cheaper, and you can make it as dark or washed out as you'd like.

 

A bag of crystals will last you a long, long time. I never mess with gum arabic, I just mix the crystals in water, shake it up, then let sit for 20 minutes or so. Voila, you have ink!

 

I've made it with both distilled and tap water, and using the crystals from John Neal Booksellers, I've never had a batch go bad, even after months and months.

 

And even if it does, did I mention it's cheap?

 

I imagine it's not terribly light-fast, and definitely not water-resistant, but for practice, where neither is important, it can't be beat. There are dip-pen-specific black inks used by many professionals. I've also heard that Noodler's Bullet-proof black works with dip pens.

 

As for paper, heavy-weight laser paper works ok. I prefer 25% cotton laser paper as it tends to deal with the heavy ink load of a dip pen better. For just playing around Black 'n Red notebooks have fantastic paper for dip pens, but there are already lines on it, so you can't print out guidelines for practice.

 

A couple of resources for instruction that helped me:

1. Zanerian.com is the site for Dr. Vitolo and his free iBook (works on iPads) for engrosser's or copperplate-style calligraphy. It's a fantastic resource with images, videos and text all embedded into the book.

2. The Flourish Forum. It's a great site for those wanting to learn calligraphy, either pointed pen or broad-edge. It's a good group of people and there are a lot of free resources, including lessons, on the site. It takes a little time to get accepted, but it's worth it. There are a number of us over there as well.

 

Then there is my site on steel dip pens. Maybe not what you're looking for, as much of it is history, but I do have a few pages on general steel dip pen usage.

https://thesteelpen.com/

 

Good luck!

Andrew

[sidthecat]

From your picture, I'm going to suggest you practice writing with a lighter hand. That way you can control your writing pressure.

[txomsy]

The question: Is there something I can buy that will make learning this much easier?

 

Is there one element or technique can improve that would make the most difference?

Chocolate.

 

Have one when you finish. Enjoy it. Fully enjoy it. Let it positively reinforce your effort.

 

As for improvement: I think the most visually impacting factors are uniformity and straightness. Try to make all the letters the same size and -little by little- more uniform. And try to align them properly.

 

Other than that, enjoy.

[JasonCurtis]

Since you're just starting out and want to keep costs down, I'd suggest focusing on practicing with what you already have. Experiment with different nibs and inks on your scrap paper to see what works best for you. As you progress, you can invest in higher-quality supplies.

[JasonCurtis]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:31 AM, JasonCurtis said:

Since you're just starting out and want to keep costs down, I'd suggest focusing on practicing with what you already have. Experiment with different nibs and inks on your scrap paper to see what works best for you. As you progress, you can invest in higher-quality supplies.

As for improving your penmanship overall, slowing down and focusing on technique is key. Keep practicing those drills and observe how your hand moves with each stroke.