Leonardo Momento Zero Hawaii

[Karmachanic]

I'd speculate that a small brand like Leonardo orders its nibs in batches from companies like Bock, i.e. when Leonardo sets out to produce 1,000 pens, it orders 1,000 nibs (for a brand like Kaweco, the numbers are probably a lot higher).

 

 

Bock website says 5000 per point size.

https://www.peter-bock.com/products/nib-systems

 

[A Smug Dill]

Im looking for a blue pen.

...‹snip›...

For reference my fav pen I own is a Sailor Pro Gear Slim. This gives you an idea of what Im looking for in size and weight.

Ok? I wasn’t using it as a carry pen so size doesn’t matter

Nothing you said in the other thread, as far as I recall, indicated that the blue pen you are "looking for in size and weight" comparable to a Sailor PGS is only so because it is to be a carry pen, or that for non-carry pens the Sailor PGS is no longer your favourite.

 

But, by all means, try a Leonardo Momento Zero if you want. I have one, I think it's pretty, and I certainly don't hate it or want to dissuade others from buying one. You alluded to wanting a reason (to at least consider) for not trying one, so I gave you a well-reasoned one. If you just wanted to go ahead and order, without hearing or eliciting any reason against it, then I suppose you'd already have done it or at least start saving for it quietly, instead of posing a rhetorical question on a discussion forum.

[City74]

Nothing you said in the other thread, as far as I recall, indicated that the blue pen you are "looking for in size and weight" comparable to a Sailor PGS is only so because it is to be a carry pen, or that for non-carry pens the Sailor PGS is no longer your favourite.

 

But, by all means, try a Leonardo Momento Zero if you want. I have one, I think it's pretty, and I certainly don't hate it or want to dissuade others from buying one. You alluded to wanting a reason (to at least consider) for not trying one, so I gave you a well-reasoned one. If you just wanted to go ahead and order, without hearing or eliciting any reason against it, then I suppose you'd already have done it or at least start saving for it quietly, instead of posing a rhetorical question on a discussion forum.

Not sure ur point but I don’t answer to you. I can buy what I want for whatever reason. I don’t know why your trying to start drama but it’s best if ya just avoid my posts in the future

[A Smug Dill]

Not sure ur point but I don’t answer to you.

You don't answer to me, but when you post in an online discussion forum, you are inviting replies to what you have written from all and sundry. I read what you wrote, I remember some of it, and so I reply having considered it all. What I don't need to consider is whether it is what you'd like to hear, I'm posting in an online discussion forum because I want others to also read my replies to your equally public posts.

 

I can buy what I want for whatever reason.

I'm not telling you not to, am I?

 

I don't know why your trying to start drama

I'm not. If you didn't post anything for me to read in the first place and to which I reply, then there would be no 'drama' (your description). Pointing out where people seem to be inconsistent in their statements, flawed in their reasoning, or inefficient in their approach in a discussion is not 'drama' in my view, but something for both that person who is being replied to (if he/she so chooses) to consider, but also for others to see, for their consideration, amusement, whatever. Your sentiments have nothing to do with my replies.

 

but it's best if ya just avoid my posts in the future

Best for whom? I don't think it's best for me, or even best for others, since I'm having fun and I'm actually offering some information (e.g. which blue pens are on the market, and size comparison between different pen models) may find useful, or perhaps they may be amused to see your statements or approaches deconstructed. I don't do it to be offensive to you, I don't do it to disrespect fellow members, but there is nothing to offend or respect in very matter-of-fact and not-giving-a-damn replies that might not suit your purpose. Not caring about you might feel about my replies is not the same my trying to 'start drama' or positively incite offence.

 

However, please feel free to ignore me if you feel it best for you not to see my replies (regardless of whether I actually make them) to anything you post in the forum.

[Honeybadgers]

Picking fights again.... Must we?

 

Not everything is a challenge to get the last word in.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[City74]

Picking fights again.... Must we?

Agree

Edited March 9, 2019 by City74

[Tseg]

IBTL

[TSherbs]

I absolutely love my Blue Hawaii! So much so, I now have three nibs for it. A medium, medium CI (Masuyama) and a fine.

 

This pen is the best pen out there in its price range right now, IMO.

 

Here is a review with pictures that are amazingly beautiful.

 

http://www.clumsypenman.com/a-new-beginning-paradise-leonardo-officina-italliana-momento-zero-hawaii/

Great pictures and a beautiful pen!

[ssaini]

I got my Momento Zero Hawaii yesterday. This is a Medium Nib .The pen is beautiful but the biggest letdown is the nib.

 

I tried to make a short video.

 

https://youtu.be/MQdkOgoSTJ4

 

I am not sure if the pen suffers from BB as the pen is not really smooth on Clairefontaine 90 GSM Paper but there is hard start and skipping.So much so, that it is unusable. I am actually disappointed. Looks aside, the main purpose of the fountain pen is to write properly out of the box.

 

Agreed that it is not a very expensive pen but if a Pilot Prera, Lamy Alstar can write properly out of the box then why can't the Pens which are 5 times the price.

Edited March 19, 2019 by ssaini

[A Smug Dill]

I am not sure if the pen suffers from BB as the pen is not really smooth on Clairefontaine 90 GSM Paper but there is hard start and skipping.So much so, that it is unusable.

Have you inspected the nib under a loupe or microscope? It wasn't until I decide to inspect mine (after putting with it as it was out-of-the-box for a few weeks) that I saw that the tipping was asymmetrical about the slit, and it wasn't until I tried to floss it that I discovered the tines were pressing unreasonably hard against each other continuously. Yes, it really makes me wonder about the quality control at Leonardo, at least as far as the nibs are concerned. I love the look of the limited edition orange ebonite Leonardo Momento Zero for which Fontoplumo is soliciting pre-orders now, but I just can't bring myself to spend overA$900 on a pretty pen when I cannot trust the quality of the nib, and that's before considering whether Leonardo's idea of Extra Fine matches mine.

[ssaini]

Have you inspected the nib under a loupe or microscope? It wasn't until I decide to inspect mine (after putting with it as it was out-of-the-box for a few weeks) that I saw that the tipping was asymmetrical about the slit, and it wasn't until I tried to floss it that I discovered the tines were pressing unreasonably hard against each other continuously. Yes, it really makes me wonder about the quality control at Leonardo, at least as far as the nibs are concerned. I love the look of the limited edition orange ebonite Leonardo Momento Zero for which Fontoplumo is soliciting pre-orders now, but I just can't bring myself to spend overA$900 on a pretty pen when I cannot trust the quality of the nib, and that's before considering whether Leonardo's idea of Extra Fine matches mine.

 

G'Day Mate!!

 

No mate I have not. I don't have a loupe. I actually had ordered one from one local Retailer (won't say the name here) and sent it back as it was useless. At some stage I am going to order Belomo 10x Triplet.

 

Frank from Fontoplumo, have been really helpful and will be sending me a replacement nib. So I will post an update when I get the nib.

 

I do not tinker with my nibs or Pens, the only thing I do is the normal maintenance i.e. cleaning (lol). At some stage I will have to get my hands on tuning nibs.

 

But my point is that any Pen which is $50 upwards should write properly without adjustments. Now this can be a debate that what is expected of a nib because people have different writing styles and preferences ( like how much feedback one likes, smoothness, style of holding a pen, pressure etc. etc.)

 

Currently, I have sent Brand New Custom Heritage 912 back to Japan because of skipping issues.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2019/post-148058-0-21431200-1551272219.jpg

 

Now, Momento Zero Hawaii turned up with this issue.

 

The only 2 Pens that worked perfect for me out of the box were Pilot Custom 823 and Pilot Prera.

 

Pelikan 800 is Ok. It is a beautifully balanced pen and very good built quality but Nib was a letdown for me. It was and still is feedbacky.

 

Lamy is the worst of all in my collection.

 

Actually, I am now really scared of buying a new expensive pen since my last 3 purchases have been disappointing.

 

 

[TheDutchGuy]

 

But my point is that any Pen which is $50 upwards should write properly without adjustments. Now this can be a debate that what is expected of a nib because people have different writing styles and preferences ( like how much feedback one likes, smoothness, style of holding a pen, pressure etc. etc.)

 

 

 

+1. A pen certainly should be functional. But as you say, writing style can make a difference. Personally, I've had to learn how to use really soft, bouncy nibs. At first, I railroaded and/or rotated them. It took me quite a while to learn how to write with those. Same with stubs: I tended to rotate them and then stubs can be unforgiving if you do that. Once I got the hang of it, I grew to adore such nibs.

 

Now, back to your Leonardo. Mine has an extremely bouncy nib. If yours is like mine, then if you push down at the start of each stroke, you will bend the tines away from the feed somewhat. This might (as in: perhaps) cause the hard starts. I only move my pen across the page, just the weight of the pen pushing down, pure bliss. A wet ink might help. I use Sailor Jentle Blue, which is quite wet but dries fast. If no pressure + wet ink doesn't help, then it's probably BB.

[Carrau]

I purchased two Leonardo MZ pens recently with steel stub nibs. Both wrote flawlessly out of the box, and haven’t required any pressure at all when moving them across the page. No skips, hard starts, and they can keep up regardless of how fast I write. At first I though it must be the Pilot Irosh Take sumi Ink I first tried in them, but it’s held true for every Ink I’ve tried in them, which would be about 10 inks between them. I count them among my best writers, and so far can’t find anything to complain about with either of them.

[ParkerDuofold]

I purchased two Leonardo MZ pens recently with steel stub nibs. Both wrote flawlessly out of the box, and havent required any pressure at all when moving them across the page. No skips, hard starts, and they can keep up regardless of how fast I write. At first I though it must be the Pilot Irosh Take sumi Ink I first tried in them, but its held true for every Ink Ive tried in them, which would be about 10 inks between them. I count them among my best writers, and so far cant find anything to complain about with either of them.

Yeah, Mike; I've put the Leonardo on my short list... which means at least one will be purchased within a month's time.

 

Knowing me, it'll be tomorrow. . Right now, I'm looking for the best price from a dealer I trust.

 

Be well all.

 

 

- Anthony

[A Smug Dill]

But my point is that any Pen which is $50 upwards should write properly without adjustments.

Yes and no, I'd say.

 

Writing 'properly' depends on a number of things beyond shape of the tipping and alignment of the tines. The presence of residue substances, from machining and handling in the factory, in the feed or the converter can make a significant difference to ink flow to the nib. I personally think expecting every component — including the $5 (or $10) converter — is cleansed of all residues by soaking and flushing before the pen leaves the factory would be 'a bit rich' as I often hear Aussies say; and no quality control regime is actually going to attach the supplied converter onto the feed and nib assembly, fill it with ink through the nib to check that there is no problem with that process, then test-write sufficiently (more than just a few strokes in different directions) to check there is no problem with the nib drawing ink from the reservoir, once the ink in the feed from the initial fill has been drained.

 

Furthermore, in my experience all of my Aurora pens with screw-in nib assemblies came with some tiny amount of residue colour already in the feed (evident from my preliminary cleaning procedure that I now always perform, when the first Aurora 88 I received surprised me that way) in spite of an apparently clean nib, so I take it that the nib assembly has passed some basic checking, by someone dipping it into whichever blue ink (Aurora Blue?) they use for that and putting down a few strokes on paper. However, that does not mean my choice of ink for that particular pen will work equally as well. Even Sailor's own seiboku nano-pigment ink wouldn't play well with my Fine-nibbed Sailor Professional Gear Imperial Black, although that pen has no problem with kiwaguro (another nano-pigment ink in that product range) or other inks by Pilot, Diamine, etc.

 

Now this can be a debate that what is expected of a nib because people have different writing styles and preferences ( like how much feedback one likes, smoothness, style of holding a pen, pressure etc. etc.)

True, and I've often questioned what writing 'properly' means when someone claims a pen isn't writing properly for them. However, I think simply drawing straight lines with strokes in directions 45° apart (i.e. North, Northeast, East, etc. on an imaginary compass on the page) the way you've shown in your video are fairly core requirements of writing, as is drawing simply loops (such as for an 'o' and '0'), with the expectation that there is no intermittent or premature ink starvation causing a broken or truncated mark to be produced by a pen stroke.

 

Pelikan 800 is Ok. It is a beautifully balanced pen and very good built quality but Nib was a letdown for me. It was and still is feedbacky.

Interesting. Pelikan nibs are not known for feedback, and I'm more likely to find fault with their being too broad, too smooth to the point of just gliding uncontrollably on the coated surface of Rhodia Dotpad paper under the pen's own weight, and not offering enough feedback for me to assert sense-and-respond control in my writing movements.

 

Actually, I am now really scared of buying a new expensive pen since my last 3 purchases have been disappointing.

I guess I've been lucky. Of all the 'expensive' Japanese pens I have, I've only ever had to send one back (several years ago) because there was a manufacturing defect in the pen clip.

 

My Fine-nibbed Platinum Izumo akatame always wrote with an unbroken narrow line but was very feedbacky (just shy of being scratchy, and without actually damaging the paper surface), and it wasn't until years later that I inspected it under a loupe and saw there was a tiny bit of misalignment of the tines; I adjusted the tines, and now the nib writes as smoothly as my other Platinum pens. One of my SF-nibbed Platinum #3776 Century pens didn't seem to offer as much line variation as my other ones, and put down an invariably broader line, but it turned out there was a tiny particle of something stuck in the nib/feed; once I managed to (not deliberately) pop that out, the nib behaved like my other ones.

 

Even the lopsided nib on my Leonardo Momento Zero Hawaii put down unbroken lines right out of the box; I just didn't like the result all that much as it was.

 

Your Leonardo Momento Zero, though, definitely has a problem as you've shown. Good on Fontoplumo for dealing with it by promptly sending you a replacement nib.

[DrDebG]

 

G'Day Mate!!

 

No mate I have not. I don't have a loupe. I actually had ordered one from one local Retailer (won't say the name here) and sent it back as it was useless. At some stage I am going to order Belomo 10x Triplet.

 

Frank from Fontoplumo, have been really helpful and will be sending me a replacement nib. So I will post an update when I get the nib.

 

I do not tinker with my nibs or Pens, the only thing I do is the normal maintenance i.e. cleaning (lol). At some stage I will have to get my hands on tuning nibs.

 

But my point is that any Pen which is $50 upwards should write properly without adjustments. Now this can be a debate that what is expected of a nib because people have different writing styles and preferences ( like how much feedback one likes, smoothness, style of holding a pen, pressure etc. etc.)

 

Currently, I have sent Brand New Custom Heritage 912 back to Japan because of skipping issues.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2019/post-148058-0-21431200-1551272219.jpg

 

Now, Momento Zero Hawaii turned up with this issue.

 

The only 2 Pens that worked perfect for me out of the box were Pilot Custom 823 and Pilot Prera.

 

Pelikan 800 is Ok. It is a beautifully balanced pen and very good built quality but Nib was a letdown for me. It was and still is feedbacky.

 

Lamy is the worst of all in my collection.

 

Actually, I am now really scared of buying a new expensive pen since my last 3 purchases have been disappointing.

 

 

 

 

I received my two Leonardo Momento Zeros about 2 weeks ago. Both have stub nibs. I was having much the same problem as you. What I did was to soak the section (nib/feed/section) in some slightly warm water with a couple of drops of dishwashing liquid. I let them soak for about 1/2 hour. I then put them my jewelry ultrasonic cleaner for about 3 minutes on low setting. I then rinsed them thoroughly in clear, running warm water. After letting them dry, I inked them up and that helped alot.

 

What I noticed with my nibs is that there was some kind of sticky residue in the nib. The warm soak really helped clear that out so that the ink could flow better.

 

I am still having a few issues but not nearly as much. So, I am going to try this process again, perhaps soaking them for an hour or so. Like you, I contacted Marco of Novelli who I purchased my pens from. He has been very helpful and will also replace the nibs if need be. But he has passed along the information I have given him to the Leonardo folks.

 

While it would be nice to have a pen that writes perfectly out of the box, I don't think any manufacturer can do that. Surprisingly the best one for me has been Lamy. But I have heard just as many complaints. In the case of Leonardo pens, I think they really do want to make a quality product. But like any manufacturer, when they get tons of orders for pens, the quality control may go down. By telling them in a constructive way about the problems we are having, it will only make them a better producer. And when a retailer such as Novelli or Fontoplumo are willing to stand by the product, because they know that Leonardo will stand by the product, then we have the makings for a successful venture.

 

BTW, the only pen that I have purchased that "wrote perfectly out of the box" is a pen that was "made" for me. It is a Franklin Christoph Panther 40 prototype that I purchased at a pen show. And right there at the F-C table, Jim, the F-C's nibmeister had me write with several different pen/nib combinations to determine which was best for me. He then fitted a 14K medium cursive italic nib made by Mike Masuyama. This pen has almost been the "perfect" pen for me.

[TSherbs]

...While it would be nice to have a pen that writes perfectly out of the box, I don't think any manufacturer can do that. ...

They can get darn close. They just choose not to. An expensive pen that won't write properly is an insult to the consumer, often so googly-eyed over the luxury product that he/she will tolerate the insult.

[DrDebG]

They can get darn close. They just choose not to. An expensive pen that won't write properly is an insult to the consumer, often so googly-eyed over the luxury product that he/she will tolerate the insult.

 

Thank you for your comment. You may very well be correct. And I get as frustrated as any other when I purchase a fountain pen that to me is expensive and it writes like (bleep), and I am forced into sending it off someplace for months on end to have it fixed. I am right in that situation with another pen, and I am profoundly disappointed in this very prestigious manufacturer. This manufacturer should know better. But in this case, they have communicated that they really don't care. And it is likely that this will be the last pen I purchase from them (although I still like their parfum).

 

My point here really was to state that I believe Leonardo does care. I think what is happening right now is that they have so many orders that they are scrambling and their QC has fallen off. I am hopeful - perhaps idealistically - that they will get their act together and get their QC back up to where it needs to be. If not, they will quickly lose their credibility and the market share that they are presently acquiring.

[A Smug Dill]

They can get darn close. They just choose not to.

I'll happily wager that the cost of ensuring 90% of pens write 'properly' – without either skipping or scratching (damaging the surface of the paper) with any pen stroke reasonably common in Japanese, Chinese and English, etc. — right out of the box is disproportionately higher than ensuring 95% of pens do so, and the cost of getting from 95% to 98% is even more disproportionately higher again, and so on. Does it make business sense to wear the upfront costs and recoup them from increased pricing, when overall profit is the KPI? Only the company's managers are in a position to decide.

 

An expensive pen that won't write properly is an insult to the consumer, often so googly-eyed over the luxury product that he/she will tolerate the insult.

If that's how you feel about a company's actions, which were decided upon and taken without you being in the picture at all at the time, when it doesn't know you are going to buy a pen it produces, much less your individual preferences and to what you'd take personal offence, then you're of course free to decide its products are not for you and/or you don't want to give such a company your custom, no matter what that means in terms of increasingly limiting your options in the market as a consumer.

 

Personally, I'm still open to buying another Leonardo pen in the €150 price range, which I expect will be fitted with another steel nib instead of a gold nib (irrespective of the fact that I can get gold-nibbed fountain pens from any of the Japanese 'Big Three' manufacturers). However, I simply don't have any reason to believe Leonardo's gold nibs are any better or more reliable (on an aggregated/macro level) than its steel nibs, or that they would be comparable to Aurora's gold nibs, so for €570 – the price of Leonardo's limited editions in celluloid or ebonite — I'll pass Leonardo over and buy yet another Aurora instead, if I'm in the mood for an Italian pen.

[ssaini]

Now, back to your Leonardo. Mine has an extremely bouncy nib. If yours is like mine, then if you push down at the start of each stroke, you will bend the tines away from the feed somewhat. This might (as in: perhaps) cause the hard starts. I only move my pen across the page, just the weight of the pen pushing down, pure bliss. A wet ink might help. I use Sailor Jentle Blue, which is quite wet but dries fast. If no pressure + wet ink doesn't help, then it's probably BB.

 

• Yes I concur, the nib is surprisingly bouncy for a steel nib BUT needs a bit more pressure to write. So I don't think that the feed and nib are getting away from each other when writing with pressure.

​

• I have only used Iroshizukus, Pilot Black and Lamy Black so far and none of the ink made a difference.

 

I purchased two Leonardo MZ pens recently with steel stub nibs. Both wrote flawlessly out of the box, and haven’t required any pressure at all when moving them across the page. No skips, hard starts, and they can keep up regardless of how fast I write. At first I though it must be the Pilot Irosh Take sumi Ink I first tried in them, but it’s held true for every Ink I’ve tried in them, which would be about 10 inks between them. I count them among my best writers, and so far can’t find anything to complain about with either of them.

 

• I am really glad that your 2 Leonardos worked perfect out of the box. I really like the pen and ergonomics. And I will be ecstatic when the replacement nib (when it arrives, as the pen almost took over a month to come to me) works flawlessly.

 

 

However, I think simply drawing straight lines with strokes in directions 45° apart (i.e. North, Northeast, East, etc. on an imaginary compass on the page) the way you've shown in your video are fairly core requirements of writing, as is drawing simply loops (such as for an 'o' and '0'), with the expectation that there is no intermittent or premature ink starvation causing a broken or truncated mark to be produced by a pen stroke.

 

• +1 For that.

 

 

Interesting. Pelikan nibs are not known for feedback, and I'm more likely to find fault with their being too broad, too smooth to the point of just gliding uncontrollably on the coated surface of Rhodia Dotpad paper under the pen's own weight, and not offering enough feedback for me to assert sense-and-respond control in my writing movements.

 

• My Pelikan M800 is a Fine Nib and I believe it is some where between Japanese Medium and Fine so I am happy with the stroke width. BUt I have heard stories about the inconsistencies between similar nibs in Pelikan.

 

Your Leonardo Momento Zero, though, definitely has a problem as you've shown. Good on Fontoplumo for dealing with it by promptly sending you a replacement nib.

 

• Yep. Frank from Fontoplumo is a nice helpful guy. It's just a waiting game now

 

 

 

 

I received my two Leonardo Momento Zeros about 2 weeks ago. Both have stub nibs. I was having much the same problem as you. What I did was to soak the section (nib/feed/section) in some slightly warm water with a couple of drops of dishwashing liquid. I let them soak for about 1/2 hour. I then put them my jewelry ultrasonic cleaner for about 3 minutes on low setting. I then rinsed them thoroughly in clear, running warm water. After letting them dry, I inked them up and that helped alot.

 

What I noticed with my nibs is that there was some kind of sticky residue in the nib. The warm soak really helped clear that out so that the ink could flow better.

 

• I did wash the pen couple of times and even with mild soapy luke warm water. After that I made the video.

 

But like any manufacturer, when they get tons of orders for pens, the quality control may go down.

 

• When I ordered Hawaii it was out of stock and Frank told me that all the stock previously was sold before even hitting the shelves. So I had to wait for more than a month for the Pen to arrive. Hence I believe your point is valid.

 

• The pen writes better on cheap paper like 55 GSM and has significantly less skipping and hard start. It's only with Clairefontaine Paper 90 GSM that it has major problem.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by ssaini