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Filling The Converter With Our Without The Pen?


thesmellofdustafterrain
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Pilot's instructions:

 

fpn_1546594015__pilot_fountain_pen_use_a

 

fpn_1546594848__pilot_mr_collection_use_

Edited by A Smug Dill

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Platinum's instructions:

 

fpn_1546595454__platinum_3776_century_us

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Sailor's instructions:

 

fpn_1546596051__sailor_writing_instrumen

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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There is something about this discussion on filling methods that still bothers me.

 

If the Parker method is both recommended by the manufacturer and simply easier and more efficient to adopt, why would users adopt any other method?

 

Any answers?

 

Edit: Hadn't seen the Sailor and Platinum instruction before I wrote this post. Even more compelling reasons to fill through the nib.

Edited by vicpen123
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Funny you should post some instructions. I stumbled on my Cross box - I had no idea I still had it - from the second pen I bought. The Waterman box is long since gone, if I ever go it. Something in my memory says I got it on sale due to it not having any box or instructions. That might have something to do with me trusting the bloke behind the counter. But no excuse for what happened next.

 

I never read the instructions for the Cross pen. I just trusted that my original instructions were correct.

 

On the note of the nipple (was that the word?) breaking on the inside. That would worry me for pens like these that are designed to take a cartridge. We aren't poking a hole in the cartridge first, are we? That nipple has to be strong enough to poke a hole and withstand stupid humans like me who sometimes forget what way up the thing goes.

petrichor

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I'll be darned. I have done it both ways, but find removing the converter to be "cleaner." Back to nib filling it is!

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I just discovered that Noodlers makes a refillable cartridge that we fill without the nib. This adds to the confusion but a nifty idea.

 

Do any other makes have this? Maybe that's where it came from?

petrichor

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/30/2018 at 3:24 PM, ISW_Kaputnik said:

What would be interesting would be to know why the seller from whom the OP got his first fountain pen told him that he should always remove the converter for filling. I can see mentioning it as an alternative, but not as the "correct" thing to do.

 

This is the first time I've seen a pen manufacturer directly address the issue of whether a converter should be filled independently of the pen's nib, feed and gripping section at all:

 

large.1918272188_SailorinkconverterminiDirectionsForUse-annotated.jpg.7e1c3b9a96382c4d49b2c8a620fe63d3.jpg

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Dunk away as you wish, but just as data, I'll report that I've been removing and filling converters for about 55 years, and have not yet compromised a seal. I don't like the idea of the nib transferring ink and environmental gunk from one bottle to another. This would seem to be pretty much a toss-up. Advantages and disadvantages either way. 

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16 minutes ago, Pensei said:

I don't like the idea of the nib transferring ink and environmental gunk from one bottle to another. This would seem to be pretty much a toss-up. Advantages and disadvantages either way. 

Why would that be happening, Pensei?  The only way I could see that being the case would be if you're using the same ink in multiple pens at the same time (maybe), or if you're switching to a new bottle of the same ink without flushing the pen out first (unlikely).  

And if you're switching inks *without* flushing in between fills, that's likely going to be the case whether you're filling through the feed or directly into the converter (unless you're using a syringe).  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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My most recent experience with a converter was an ill-fated purchase of an Estie with the adapter that lets you use vintage nibs.  I could never get the pen to work consistently.  Specifically, the pen would eventually write dry and then just never restart unless or until I primed it by turning the converter.  The Esterbrook folks emphasized that its important to fill through the nib.  They said it helps create a consistent seal.  Even doing that the pen would still run dry, but they were quite emphatic about not filling the unloaded converter.  

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Like others have said, whatever works.  The prevalence of tipping bottles (Waterman, Pelikan, Kaweco, &c) and filling inserts (Pilot 70mL, Levenger) and little conical depressions (LAMY, Iroshizuku) all point to filling with the nib on (as do many instruction brochures).  I prefer it because it wets the feed with ink, but always desaturate the feed afterwards.

 

The way I get the last dregs out of a bottle is that I don't fill from bottles.  I fill from sample vials, which I fill using bulb pipettes.

 

To maximize your fill, drive the plunger all the way forward (yes, inside the section).  Dunk nib in ink.  Draw plunger back until you see ink.  Hold pen point up.  Draw plunger back the rest of the way.  Slowly drive plunger forward until you see ink pooling around the nib/feed collar.  Dunk pen in ink.  Draw plunger all the way back.  Pull pen from ink, holding it over the bottle.  Drive out a few drops of ink (amount will depend on feed capacity; Pelikan recommends 3 for M200/M400/M600).  Hold pen upright.  Draw plunger all the way back.  Wipe nib and section, reassemble barrel to pen.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/28/2020 at 5:27 PM, inkstainedruth said:

Why would that be happening, Pensei?  The only way I could see that being the case would be if you're using the same ink in multiple pens at the same time (maybe), or if you're switching to a new bottle of the same ink without flushing the pen out first (unlikely).  

And if you're switching inks *without* flushing in between fills, that's likely going to be the case whether you're filling through the feed or directly into the converter (unless you're using a syringe).  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Hi. Sorry for slow reply; I've been away. I appreciate your thoughts, and it makes me feel better about going ahead and dunking the nibs. What I generally do is use a carefully cleaned syringe to transfer ink from the bottle to the cartridge. Obviously, with piston or vacuum fillers, I have to bite the bullet, but usually I have one ink for one pen in those cases. I guess we all have our quirks. 

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      @Texas42 Thank you. I myself have recently had the experience of cleaning out a Wing Sung 699, in which the iron-gall ink has been sitting for six months. No damage to the metal piston rod (whereas, in a Wing Sung 3013 vacuum-filler, it would have been corroded, turned green, and contaminated the ink in mere weeks), but there was a ring of colour at the far end of the barrel that wouldn't budge, and I found it impossible to unscrew the filling mechanism to clean the interior wall of the ink rese
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      Dang. You are a great friend!   One comment as a relative newcomer would be within the cleaning section: issues/differences in cleaning vacuum filler, piston filler in addition to cartridge/converter. I just cleaned out my Pilot 823 and while it wasn't particularly difficult I was a little paranoid about the drops of water that I could not get out. Perhaps this is something you are already including.   Anyway, great project and very thoughtful of you. I know it's a project fo
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      Hi Smug Dill,   Nice project.  If it were me, I'd cover stuff like: - nib types available, i.e. styles, materials (SS vs gold), flex vs nails; - filling systems (I love the "thingie" comment) and how once can use them in practice (e.g. fill cartridges with a syringe); - pen body materials and their consequences (pen not balanced of too heavy and big for the hand); - and, whilst you've made it clear that you do not like vintage pens, a discussion of these beyond "I d
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      Thanks for your input! Yes, not putting wood in the list of body materials warranting a mention was an oversight. I love pens with wooden bodies, but my main concern, or chagrin, is that I have not come across a wooden-bodied pen with a wooden cap that seals well. Actually, there is one, but it isn't really wood per se: the Pilot Custom Kaede's maple body is resin impregnated. All other wooden pens I have can dry out while capped and undisturbed; that includes several Platinum #3776 models.
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