Jump to content

Inky Question For Ef Nib Users


LizEF

Recommended Posts

@pajaro, my new order of Sailor pigment inks (in all three colours, and all with the refreshed retail packaging) was bought on Rakuten Global – which is a marketplace platform based in Japan – and shipped directly from Japan. They all have the transliterated names on the boxes.

 

I haven't ordered any of the Sailor Shikiori (20ml) bottled inks, but I'm perfectly confident that they have those round stickers with both kanji and transliterated names, even for stock in bricks-and-mortar stores in Japan.

 

@LizEF, sorry for derailing your thread with a discussion of retail packaging and product labelling. I'll shut up about that now.

Edited by A Smug Dill

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 128
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • LizEF

    36

  • A Smug Dill

    29

  • Misfit

    11

  • pajaro

    5

Top Posters In This Topic

My suggestion is not really helpful.

 

I want to see Mr. Hippo in at least one photo in each ink review. I am not a fan of EF nibs, but still see value in reading a review especially if the color is interesting.

 

Edited to correct that cool Hippos name.

Edited by Misfit
Posted Image
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LizEF, sorry for derailing your thread with a discussion of retail packaging and product labelling. I'll shut up about that now.

 

Sorry, just noticed this today - no worries - conversations wander. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My suggestion is not really helpful.

 

I want to see Mr. Hippo in at least one photo in each ink review. I am not a fan of EF nibs, but still see value in reading a review especially if the color is interesting.

 

:lticaptd: I think that can be managed. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh thank you Liz! Once I see one of your reviews with Mr. Hippo, Ill get a Lamy, switch the nib to the only EF I have, and ink it up and use it.

 

Oh, I finally read this entire thread and saw you were planning to make video reviews, so I wont be reading them. But video makes it easier for Mr. Hippo cameos, so hurray!

Edited by Misfit
Posted Image
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh thank you Liz! Once I see one of your reviews with Mr. Hippo, Ill get a Lamy, switch the nib to the only EF I have, and ink it up and use it.

 

Oh, I finally read this entire thread and saw you were planning to make video reviews, so I wont be reading them. But video makes it easier for Mr. Hippo cameos, so hurray!

 

Mr. Hippo is all aflutter at having such an avid fan. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

As another fountain pen user whose primary use cases all tend towards 'Japanese fine' nibs (except for the occasional exercise in writing oversized Chinese characters), I have now invested in a bunch of cheap Platinum (DPQ-700A and DP-1000AN), Pilot (P-DPP-1S) and Sailor (11-0073) desk pens with EF, F and M nibs, to more closely and authentically represent the ink delivery in fountain pens when doing new ink testing or reviews – at least for my own explorations – without having to either unnecessarily disturb my 'fine' (as in 'proper' and pricier) fountain pens that may already be inked with what I want to use, or set one or two of those pens aside as crash test dummies.

 

I now also have two cheap Sailor Fude de Mannen pens (for both the 40° and 55° versions of the fude nib), so that I won't have to use my Profit21 pens with Naginata Concord nibs to test spreading the ink thin for brush-like strokes.

 

All of them were supplied with cartridges only (which is fair enough for the low prices), but I have 'spare' converters for them. However, I still dislike the idea of filling multiple converters with one particular ink for very brief use during testing, and then having to do all that emptying (back into the bottle!), flushing and cleaning up an hour later. Also, as much as I prefer to suck the ink directly from the bottle into the converter without dunking the nib, I understand that is not considered the 'proper' or (manufacturer-)recommended way of filling fountain pens, so it certainly isn't what I would do for the purposes of ink reviews, because as far as I'm concerned it makes the testing process employed less 'real' for a more general audience than myself and my fiancée.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm starting to take one pen that has an EF nib send using it to make a line. Easier to compare wet vs dry, spread vs nib width.

Peace and Understanding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think dipping nibs is a great way to show performance in nib sizes, because it is very different from writing with a pen/feed.

That is more true for some pens than for others, it seems. Just now I went and tested a bunch of desk pens I bought recently – to decide which I will use as my standard test pen(s) for ink reviews going forward – and it looks to me that while the Platinum DP-1000AN pens write noticeably wetter when fed by a converter, it didn't make as much of a difference with the Platinum DPQ-700A or the Sailor 11-0073.

 

fpn_1538734124__various_desk_pens_with_a

Edited by A Smug Dill

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I write with a reliably pleasurable EF nib on reliably pleasurable paper and I'm displeased, it's usually because (1) the color wasn't what I hoped and believed it would be or (2) the nib's movement on the paper felt like driving with the parking brake applied, or both.

 

Generally, I want a review to be formatted so that individual qualities can be culled easily. And if that's accomplished, I want everything in an ink review—and if you think of something else that's useful, put it in there too. I'll take what's relevant to me and leave the rest. But specifically for an EF I like to see color and hue demonstrated with three or more nib widths and I like the review to evaluate flow and lubricity rather than flow alone.

I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But specifically for an EF I like to see color and hue demonstrated with three or more nib widths

How many different nib widths in EF are there? Do you mean 0.2mm, 0.3mm, 0.38mm all being designated EF by some manufacturer or other because Extra Fine just isn't something the industry at large can agree on, and thus users have no standard or reliable frame of reference?

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many different nib widths in EF are there? Do you mean 0.2mm, 0.3mm, 0.38mm all being designated EF by some manufacturer or other because Extra Fine just isn't something the industry at large can agree on, and thus users have no standard or reliable frame of reference?

 

I mean a reviewer highlighting ink coming from an EF nib—even using a handful of different EF nibs—would be unlikely to demonstrate what I need to know about the ink's color from an EF nib unless he or she added exemplars from at least F, M, B. Add an italic or a music nib or a flexie to round things out.

I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean a reviewer highlighting ink coming from an EF nib—even using a handful of different EF nibs—would be unlikely to demonstrate what I need to know about the ink's color from an EF nib unless he or she added exemplars from at least F, M, B. Add an italic or a music nib or a flexie to round things out.

 

I'm confused. How does seeing the ink from a F, M, B nib tell you anything about what it will look like from an EF nib? I'm planning to do the EF-specific reviews because most reviews already include a wide range of larger nibs and these don't tell me anything about what an ink will look like from an EF (especially Japanese EF) nib.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with LizEF on this one. The colour (or appearance, more generally) of a particular ink delivered by an EF nib is information in its own right, independent of how it will/may (not) look when delivered by a broader nib. Colour information isn't relative, and the comparison is even more meaningless if you as the user are not going to write with the same ink in a variety of nib widths on the same page in practical application.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm confused. How does seeing the ink from a F, M, B nib tell you anything about what it will look like from an EF nib? I'm planning to do the EF-specific reviews because most reviews already include a wide range of larger nibs and these don't tell me anything about what an ink will look like from an EF (especially Japanese EF) nib.

 

 

I'm with LizEF on this one. The colour (or appearance, more generally) of a particular ink delivered by an EF nib is information in its own right, independent of how it will/may (not) look when delivered by a broader nib. Colour information isn't relative, and the comparison is even more meaningless if you as the user are not going to write with the same ink in a variety of nib widths on the same page in practical application.

 

You might get nothing by seeing a review highlighting EF nibs that included exemplars from F, M, and B nibs. I would.

I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bookman

 

My understanding is that LizEF primarily wants to fill a gap in the information made available by other ink reviewers, especially around the performance of particular inks in very fine nibs, and made it clear her goal is not primarily to provide a 'one-stop shop' for information about an ink. Of course someone 'would' get something from having all their interests and concerns addressed in a single digest tailored for his consumption, but that's not the point.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might get nothing by seeing a review highlighting EF nibs that included exemplars from F, M, and B nibs. I would.

 

Thanks, Bookman. I understand that you would get something from the review (and that's OK, not trying to argue, just trying to understand). But would you get something about the ink in EF nibs? Regardless of whether I end up providing what you're looking for, I am sincerely curious about your thoughts here - others have convinced me that things which I thought weren't unique to EF nibs and therefore didn't need to be in my reviews might actually be unique to EF nibs. So, if the answer is simply that you would find this useful not for evaluating the ink in EF, but useful for your own purposes, that's fine. But if you actually think it would be useful for evaluating the ink in an EF nib, I honestly want to understand that.

 

As A Smug Dill said, my goal is to fill that gap for us EF users where the vast majority of reviews out there already show the ink it broader nibs (sometimes many broader nibs and swabs and splashes). But if there's an EF nib in most reviews, it's just a short sample from one EF nib (which often seems the width of my fattest EF) and that's it.

 

My other thought is that if one wants to know about an ink, the wise thing is to check out many reviews. Thus, my review would be just one of many, and the other reviews a person checks would show them things like look from fatter nibs, swabs, color comparisons, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Short of testing or using the ink oneself, with one's pen(s) and paper(s) of choice, a prospective user will always know less than all the information he/she needs to establish what his/her personal writing experience will/would be like with the particular ink, regardless of whether he/she reads ten reviews of it, or just one out of lack of availability, time or motivation.

 

So, my view is that the aggregate of the reviews accessible to oneself would ideally inform the prospective user whether to take the next step and actually acquire/try the ink, as a preliminary to finally deciding whether it is the 'right' ink to use for a particular application (or use case) one has in mind.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Short of testing or using the ink oneself, with one's pen(s) and paper(s) of choice, a prospective user will always know less than all the information he/she needs to establish what his/her personal writing experience will/would be like with the particular ink, regardless of whether he/she reads ten reviews of it, or just one out of lack of availability, time or motivation.

 

So, my view is that the aggregate of the reviews accessible to oneself would ideally inform the prospective user whether to take the next step and actually acquire/try the ink, as a preliminary to finally deciding whether it is the 'right' ink to use for a particular application (or use case) one has in mind.

 

Precisely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...