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What's Up With Berlin?


DnzUlc

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I'm currently in Berlin for a 20 day trip and i think I've stumbled across a strange phenomenon. I was so excited to be in here aside from all the good things but for fountain pens too. To be in Berlin or in Germany, totally was a very exciting idea for me fountain pen wise, the dream of all the flea and antique markets filled with Kawecos, Lamys and particularly Pelikans but there were nearly none of them. I've gone to more than 15 flea and antique markets (which includes the biggest one, Mauer Park) and there was just one counter with over the top prices, nothing more for any ballpoints, fountain pens.. to sum up nothing about pens, Pelikans. Just wondering about if anyone lives in Berlin / Germany knows something about this situation, is there an underground Pelikan mob or something?

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I do not know where you got the romantic idea that German flea markets are loaded with vintage fountain pens...

Summertime flea markets are generally just tourist traps. I would try visiting local flea markets in smaller villages but even then chances are obviously low that you will find something of interest, unfortunately.

Edited by joss
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Haven't been on flea markets for decades but I can't remember to see pens there. Old pens are usually considered to valuable for flea markets and sold otherwise, I guess.

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Haven't been on flea markets for decades but I can't remember to see pens there. Old pens are usually considered to valuable for flea markets and sold otherwise, I guess.

 

 

I do not know where you got the romantic idea that German flea markets are loaded with vintage fountain pens...

Summertime flea markets are generally just tourist traps. I would try visiting local flea markets in smaller villages but even then chances are obviously low that you will find something of interest, unfortunately.

 

 

Thanks for your answers but there must be a place where people can sell or trade their vintage pens, do you know a store like this?

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German Ebay.....in there are pens sometimes in German Flea Markets but not many, and one has to be there early, before the Fountain Pen Scavengers swoop in.

 

A decade or so ago, there were fountain pens all over the place.....and I didn't collect. :( Even 5-6 years ago, there were some. Now very scarce. In many are sold on German Ebay.

 

And for more than Flea Market Prices too.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Once soulless sellers find new items to plunder from flea markets and sell to the highest bidder on ebay a hobby is ruined. It's always the same.

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The flea market sellers have wised up with all the information easily available. It is just as easy for them to sell on Flea bay.

 

Now, it's a case of just getting lucky with a clueless seller.

Engineer :

Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

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Once soulless sellers find new items to plunder from flea markets and sell to the highest bidder on ebay a hobby is ruined. It's always the same.

 

Makes sense. I never found any "bargains" on my trips either, i bought and sold all my pens online. But i`m pretty sure we all have been in the position of the ruthless, soulless seller. Never heard of anyone buying a pen for 5 dollars and selling it for the same amount when the market price is 50 dollars. And i`m pretty sure all pens will get to be resold at some point, otherwise there would be no vintage pens for sale anywhere.

 

The internet is a double edged sword- it allows for greater access, but at the same time the internet has the tendency of dominating all other forms of trading. It`s a thing.

 

I`il tell you a secret though(which isn`t exactly a secret): there are thousands of people who make a good living from buying stuff in large quantity from western flea markets which end up in places like eastern Europe. Things that range from cars to furniture to industrial machinery and yes, pens. Everything is in demand in the poorer half of Europe.

 

So with the internet thing and all the scavenging that`s been going on, it`s no surprise that the odds of finding a Pelikan Toledo for 20 euros at an old lady`s stand at the flea market aren`t exactly great. :D

Edited by rochester21
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Thanks for your answers but there must be a place where people can sell or trade their vintage pens, do you know a store like this?

pens are so small and light which makes them perfect items to sell on eBay or similar auction sites.

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Ill be there in 3 weeks and have new m8xx in my sights and it looks like german retail is.still substantially less than in the USA. Have you found any retail locations?

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Perhaps the difference may be related to some unique aspects of Germany which may be different than other places which have their own unique situations. I have some questions and possible answers.

First, does EBay in Germany report all sales to the tax authorities as they do in the U.S.?

This has caused many people in the U.S. to avoid it as they don't like doing the paperwork involved, nor paying the related taxes.

Second, do the tax authorities in Germany monitor the flea markets to make certain that taxes are paid?

In many places in the U.S. there is no tax (excise) on casual sales and little to no monitoring of tax payment for even regular retail sales except those done by corporations and large organizations and thus individuals sell at flea markets fairly easily.

Third, in Germany is he selling of items often considered fun, as in a hobby like activity? The U.S is made up of elements of cultures from around the globe. Many people like the buying and selling of items, hunting for them at a low price and selling them at a higher price. There are television programs which show this endeavor as entertainment it is so popular. Thus in the U.S. you will more than likely find part time sellers doing so as a hobby rather than professionals.

Edited by Parker51
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You don't have to pay taxes for your private ebay sales, nor the buyer. But your activity is monitored by eBay. Above some amount of sold items per month or so eBay may ask you to register as a commercial seller. Then you'll have to pay taxes and put VAT on your sales. Yet there is no law that defines the amount you have to sell to be a commercial seller.

Flea markets are monitored by investigators. It is possible if you sell a lot of stuff, regularly and obviously professional, the tax investigation will pay your stand a visit. The casual seller doesn't have to fear that. But you have to pay a fee to the organizers.

I doubt that this is considered a hobby. Tax investigation might consider it a business.

Never forget. Tax evasion is worse than murder. ;)

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This has caused many people in the U.S. to avoid it as they don't like doing the paperwork involved, nor paying the related taxes.

 

 

That is the whole idea of having a stall/flea market setup.

 

It is a cash business and as far as your declared income matches your lifestyle, you are all good.

I know a few retired couples making good money, quietly. :D

Engineer :

Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

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Ill be there in 3 weeks and have new m8xx in my sights and it looks like german retail is.still substantially less than in the USA. Have you found any retail locations?

 

Zeichen Center Berlin (https://www.zc77.de/cgi-bin/scgi?sid=1&se=1&kd=0&sp=eng&nm=ebene2.html&rid=0&ebene=0&menu=index1.html ) had some of the best prices (in Berlin) when I was there 3 years ago.

 

Galleria Kaufhof had a decent offering, but mostly MSRP prices. The same applies to KaDeWe.

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Zeichen Center Berlin (https://www.zc77.de/cgi-bin/scgi?sid=1&se=1&kd=0&sp=eng&nm=ebene2.html&rid=0&ebene=0&menu=index1.html ) had some of the best prices (in Berlin) when I was there 3 years ago.

 

Galleria Kaufhof had a decent offering, but mostly MSRP prices. The same applies to KaDeWe.

 

I wouldn't bother. IMO, spend time enjoying the city and sights.

 

Nothing beats Cult Pens with free delivery, favorable FX rates and the 10% discount promo.

 

Also, I am unsure how the VAT refund works in Germany for a tourist.

 

As an example, the M1000 (ex vat price) is $120 cheaper than in Zeichen and it includes free delivery to your doorstep without VAT hassles.

There is no surcharge for EF nibs at Cult unlike Zeichen (the difference increases to $170 in case of EF).

 

https://www.zc77.de/cgi-bin/scgi?sid=1&se=1&kd=0&sp=eng&nm=ebene1.html&rid=7060&ebene=4&menu=ebene4.html

 

https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/PK04999/pelikan-souveran-m1000-fountain-pen-black

Edited by 1nkulus

Engineer :

Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

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Cool stationery store with enormous stock of inks, tasty selection of pens, and some interesting paper and notebooks. I come here for Diamine and Kaweco, and try not to look in the vitrine with the Sailors, Pilots and Pelikans. West Berlin near Nollendorfplatz U-Bahn: https://www.moranga.de

 

Another cool stationery store, this one in the east near Rosa-Luxemburg-Platz. I come here for Noodler's and KWZ inks: https://shop.luiban.com/en/

Edited by ad_nib

Lined paper makes a prison of the page.

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Both shops are quirky and interesting. :thumbup:

 

I am unsure of Pelikan pricing at Moranga and there seems to be nothing on the website.

Engineer :

Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

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And my local Woolworth is currently selling ONLINE Piccolo pocket pens for just ten euros a pop.

Lined paper makes a prison of the page.

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I wouldn't bother. IMO, spend time enjoying the city and sights.

 

Nothing beats Cult Pens with free delivery, favorable FX rates and the 10% discount promo.

 

Also, I am unsure how the VAT refund works in Germany for a tourist.

 

As an example, the M1000 (ex vat price) is $120 cheaper than in Zeichen and it includes free delivery to your doorstep without VAT hassles.

There is no surcharge for EF nibs at Cult unlike Zeichen (the difference increases to $170 in case of EF).

 

https://www.zc77.de/cgi-bin/scgi?sid=1&se=1&kd=0&sp=eng&nm=ebene1.html&rid=7060&ebene=4&menu=ebene4.html

 

https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/PK04999/pelikan-souveran-m1000-fountain-pen-black

 

Oh, I'm well aware that nobody can beat Cult Pens.

And I usually only buy if it is cheap :) .

However, when I am on a trip I like to bring home a pen as a memento and, in that case, it is ok to pay a little more.

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