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Insight Needed About Porcelain Inkwell With Sand Shaker



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Hi Everyone,

 

I came across a porcelain Inkwell with Sand Shaker and am hoping someone here can tell me more about it. I have it for sale on eBay and a member pointed out the wells are different size and the elaboration is different. On the bottom are some markings but I wasn't able to find any other information. That's when I happened to come across this website :-)

I'm hoping someone can give me guidelines about it's worth.

 

Thanks,

Rick

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Edited by ttricktt
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The shaker is not for sand, but for pounce. It was used to help make bad (e.g. rough) paper better able to hold ink. Pounce was usually made up of powdered cuttlefish bones. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pounce_(calligraphy)

 

I don’t know much about porcelain, but pounce pots fell out of use in the very early 19th-century after better paper-making techniques came along. No idea for value.

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

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It's hard paste porcelain and although the pounce pot & it's cover look like they are original to the base, the inkwell and it's cover don't and it's a replacement that just happens to fit into the hole.

 

You can tell by the handles and decoration that the inkwell isn't right.

 

No idea who the manufacturer is.

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Bo Bo Olson

Chrissy has a very good eye. :thumbup:

Took me a couple of looks to see the two wells don't match. :headsmack:

 

I didn't know about rubbing pounce/cuttle fish into bad paper. I was under the impression it helped absorb excess ink.....in sand don't do anything but have a layer between one sheet and the other as the first dries.

I expect pounce to do the same. Left over pounce was put back in the jar, in it still had some use....and folks were brought up thrifty back then.

 

It's a very pretty but mismatched inkwell...inkwell and 'sand' pot must match....how expensive?

 

 

Look in English Ebay.....

 

If you look hard you might find a well matched one with a name maker....E100-150.....IMO for E25 it's not a bad deal....but for miss matched no name....50 would be way too much. Off the top of my head.

I've looked in live auctions at them, but want perfection....no cracks, no chips and was made by someone. Could be lower level Royal Dalton, or Dresden it don't have to be Royal Copenhagen, KPM or Meissen. But it has to be perfect, in case you have to sell it later.

 

I've looked at 50-60 similar types.....the couple I wanted ....others wanted at a much higher than my then limit.

 

Pewter inkwell or sets, have jumped massively lately. Ones that were once easy to have for E25-35 went for 100 and over the last time I was after some at a live auction...........they were of course real nice. But folks are hiding their money from the Government and deflation buy buying antiques.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

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Hello Everyone,

I'm happy too have found this forum, your feedback has been helpful and very interesting. I never thought the inkwell could be mid century and "perhaps" made in France. Very cool...

 

Thanks,

Rick

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I think it’s old, and I know it’s charming. It’s worth whatever you’re willing to spend to have it on your desk.

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inkstainedruth

It occurred to me that you might be able to find out information through the hallmark on the bottom. I have my great aunt's Limoges china and was able to get some info about the company, and when the pieces were made, from a book an antiques dealer had.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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Bo Bo Olson

I hadn't noticed any markings, and I'd looked first thing, in my wife collects porcelain. So over the decades, I've come to know some, but my wife is pretty much an expert. Having at one time over 3,000 demi-tasse. With a shelf of expensive books.

 

I don't think the markings on the bottom prove anything....not maker's stamps or imprints; which are clearer and smaller.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

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I still have several books on porcelain marks, but those numbers aren't going to get you very far I'm afraid. They look more like a model reference than a manufacturer. Some porcelain makers didn't mark their pieces, and this looks like one of those who didn't.

 

It's more likely to come from France or Germany than from anywhere else, just by looking at the porcelain.

 

@Bo Bo: Not Royal Copenhagen - one of my favourites and I still have many lovely pieces of Royal Copenhagen. I would also rule out Royal Doulton. Although that small inkwell looks like it might be a slightly more creamy colour that could be British.

 

Bo Bo, I used to buy and sell, and restore this stuff. Even old eyes remember colours and forms. :)

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Bo Bo Olson

We have a restorer only 40 minutes away. She was trained at Meissen. Perfect work.

 

I did have Royal Copenhagen higher than Dresden. My wife likes Royal Copenhagen. But she likes most great porcelain.

Ludwigsburg porcelain went belly up a couple years ago.....not only didn't we know, but we didn't have enough money to drive down for the scavenger hunt at the palace. :(

Rosenthal now belongs to the Chinese. And my wife is a real big fan of Rosenthal.

 

I'm not up that much on the French.....not either the English either (not living there). I did some 'study' of English & American stoneware of the 1840's (Strode and Wedgwood's by then slightly old fashioned Imari. I have a scene with that service in the Parlor.) do make it into the book. Strode's transferware had just come in; and is in the passenger Canal boat scene. That was First Class travel back then. ) and porcelain of the 1880's for my western. I have affordable Dresden in a nice Hotel in the book. (Because of the very low wages Germans got, French and English items of the same quality were more expensive and had higher status.....so my still slightly ignorant murderous heroine, looks a bit down her nose at Meissen....and admires the more expensive Strode and Haviland.......of course American products are mentioned, like Syracuse granite or iron ware in a Harvey's railroad station dinner.

 

Can't have a city slicker western with out an opera (Every 4 horse town had an Opera House...in the west the East was IN) (& the Americans had 3 of the top 7 women Opera singers in the world....and it was all sang in English, which was why it was so popular back then), nor a set of porcelain vases on the marble fireplace.

The American company Haviland, in Limoges, France was absolutely Huge for the Americans back then. President Grant had a wonderful service from Haviland.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

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    • A Smug Dill
      Even so, you'd end up with a fragmented list, and it becomes an O(N²) process for each prospective requestor to check what is available: effectively recreate the list of currently active servers (without any reliable up-to-date info upfront about the inks and number of samples on offer in the thread) from the sequential list of posts, which may be spread over two or even more pages, and then query each server independently to check what is currently on offer.   It comes down to not hav
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      If one wanted to do this, one could just use the "About Me" field which appears to be unlimited in size.  And if a bunch of people wanted to cooperate, the Member Title field (or signature) could be used to this end - "Ink Giver" (or some such) could be used by those with inks to give...  No software edits required.
    • Arkanabar
      I suppose the update issue could be mitigated.  One would post a link in signature, to the particular part of your profile where you list the inks that you're willing to post samples to others, gratis.  But looking at profiles, I suspect that would require an edit to the board's software, potentially a nontrivial task.
    • A Smug Dill
      I read your idea as getting willing givers to publicly register as members of a set of heterogenous servers, in a system in which a client would explicitly select an available server from a list, to which he/she will then send a request privately and asynchronously. Request handling in the system is unmanaged, and individual requests are handled by the targeted servers completely independently on each other. I think the model is fine, although there are some operational concerns you may want to
    • Daneaxe
      First thought on the method/system of ink sharing: Think the best way, to begin with, is to follow the way of the US thread: offer up a (small) list of inks you are willing to PIF, to whoever expresses interest. Write clearly in the "mission statement" how it works, with a tiny "quid pro quo" that even a struggling student can comply with, i.e. post your opinion and a writing sample, with option of a full review if desired.   So yours truly might say: "I'm offering up samples of D
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