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Comparison Of Water Resistance Of Several Inks


vojtahlad

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I collected several inks which are declared/believed to be water resistant so I decided to make a small experiment. I wrote some samples, let the ink dry for about one day and then submerged the right half of the paper into the water for about 30 seconds. Here is the result (click to enlarge):


waterproof-inks-001.jpg


Several inks remained intact - these are the clear winners of this comparison: Monteverde Documental, Koh-I-Noor Document, Noodler's Bad Blue Heron, and Noodler's 54th Massachusetts. Koh-I-Noor surprised me. I tried it several weeks ago by a wet finger and it seemed to be fairly easy to smear. Noodler's inks proved to be bulletproof. Unfortunately, their behaviour is disgusting. They soak into the paper like crazy and have strong tendency to feather and bleed through. When writing with them, I feel like using a felt-tip pen.


Pelikan Fount India and iron gall Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Scabiosa were influenced just a little bit. We can see some washing and light colour changes, but it is just a minor deterioration.


Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black was influenced more. Blue component dismissed, the text is visibly lighter but still perfectly legible.


The biggest disappointment for me was the result of iron gall KWZ inks. KWZ IG Turquoise and IG Mandarin lost all the original rich colours and dismissed almost completely. Washed Turquoise is very light and Mandarin is barely legible. This is so sad because the behaviour of these inks is very good and their original colours are stunning.

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I find the same disappointing result from all of the IG KWZ samples I've tried. I think I'm going to buy a bottle of Scabiosa as my sample seems to behave really well.

There's a lot of Noodlers inks to for you to try. Some feather and bleed (as you've seen) and others, like their Bulletproof Black, behave won't feather nor bleed even on bad paper. Some of their inks aren't bulletproof but are still quite water and UV resistant (and feel more typical of FP inks).

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Thank you for sharing!

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Font India has performance that varies wildly depending on the paper. On most papers I use it’s the best ink I have for ink and wash artwork. If I want a similar ink color that will stay put on any paper, I’d go with Platinum Carbon Black. And the Font India will wash well after days of drying. It’s an excellent substitute for sumi ink.

 

But when I’m trying inks at the gentlest I’m hitting them with a water brush. And a soaked quill or mop brush isn’t out of the question.

 

If you don’t let anything touch the wet paper many inks will hold up better. But a lot of ink smearing is due to things like sweaty hands, so brush and watercolor tests can be very helpful.

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I find the same disappointing result from all of the IG KWZ samples I've tried. I think I'm going to buy a bottle of Scabiosa as my sample seems to behave really well.

There's a lot of Noodlers inks to for you to try. Some feather and bleed (as you've seen) and others, like their Bulletproof Black, behave won't feather nor bleed even on bad paper. Some of their inks aren't bulletproof but are still quite water and UV resistant (and feel more typical of FP inks).

 

I think that's due to the reputed "mild" nature of these modern IG inks. They are deemed "safe" for modern pens (namely steel nibs, as gold nibs were pretty much always safe), but that comes at a price: the IG content is (supposedly & evidently!) quite low, which means the waterproof part will be very light, the darkening effect not too drastic and fading is an issue (R&K specifically), and these also likely won't burn wholes into paper as bad as old formulations would.

 

Some dye inks leave a stronger line behind after water tests (e.g. Pilot's standard inks, and those are not only incredibly water resistant, but also pretty safe, same for the Sailor Jentle basic inks (acc to my tests)). I don't know how KWZI IGs fare over time, but at least one of the two R&K IG inks is reputed to fade significantly in closed books over a short period of time.

 

I think the best IG inks (I mean "strongest" & closer to old formulations) are Diamine's Registrar's and ESSRI.

 

Personally I prefer and stick to dye inks and at best would use pigment inks, but even then when I need or want a pigment ink I rather grab a ballpoint, rollerball or gel pen..

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Can you post a link to where RK Scabiosa is alleged to fade? Everywhere I look, it seem to be as durable as most IG inks. My sample is quite legible after a bath, unlike KWZ.

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Can you post a link to where RK Scabiosa is alleged to fade? Everywhere I look, it seem to be as durable as most IG inks. My sample is quite legible after a bath, unlike KWZ.

I'm very sure it's in one of the reviews discussed. I don't have time now but you could google "R&K salix scabiosa fading", I think it's also discussed in blogs, and if I remember right one of them suffers more from this issue than the other (I think Salix fades more).

 

It's definitely been discussed here on FPN though and I do remember that well, just can't say which one is (more) affected, because I don't use and have no interest in IGs, so the details escape me..

 

IG inks are more waterproof than fadeproof, pigment inks perform much better when water & UV are a concern & won't eat paper, though pigment inks need proper storage too, as a damp environment makes the pigments loose and tend to smudging...

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Can you post a link to where RK Scabiosa is alleged to fade? Everywhere I look, it seem to be as durable as most IG inks. My sample is quite legible after a bath, unlike KWZ.

 

 

I'm very sure it's in one of the reviews discussed. I don't have time now but you could google "R&K salix scabiosa fading", I think it's also discussed in blogs, and if I remember right one of them suffers more from this issue than the other (I think Salix fades more).

 

It's definitely been discussed here on FPN though and I do remember that well, just can't say which one is (more) affected, because I don't use and have no interest in IGs, so the details escape me..

 

IG inks are more waterproof than fadeproof, pigment inks perform much better when water & UV are a concern & won't eat paper, though pigment inks need proper storage too, as a damp environment makes the pigments loose and tend to smudging...

 

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Tests/Fade/2012/Subjects/slides/66-2012-10-14_001.jpg

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The prior post and this one are from 2012.

 

This set of inks received no direct sun.

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Tests/Fade/2012/Subjects/slides/119.jpg

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Before:

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Tests/Fade/2012/Subjects/slides/151-2012-07-05_05.jpg

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Tests/Fade/2012/Subjects/slides/151.jpg

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks. Amber!

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Can you post a link to where RK Scabiosa is alleged to fade? Everywhere I look, it seem to be as durable as most IG inks. My sample is quite legible after a bath, unlike KWZ.

I have just looked through some pages on that issue and I found some bits, I hope they help you or give you more info. The resistance to UV and tests in that direction are mentioned, but I definitely remember some members here and on other sites saying R&K's one or maybe even both IGs fade in closed books and at times rapidly. I also remember that at least one member here stopped using it for that reason.

I have been reading here for ages so remember many things esp interesting (to me), but can't always necessarily find them.. I was considering buying some IGs as well for a while so did a lot of reading until I came to the conclusion that IGs aren't for me.

I don't want to deter you in any case, just wanted to let you know they might have fadng issues so you're not surprised (negatively), I know I sometimes ignore negative reviews on stuff (pens, inks, cosmetics...) and sometimes things work for me, and other times unfortunately the reviews turn out to be true...

 

Anyway, here are some links, hope they help

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326672-do-i-need-iron-gall/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/246503-rohrer-klingner-salixscabiosa-any-safety-concerns/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/178137-most-lightfast-iron-gall-fountain-pen-ink/

https://lennartwennberg.com/2012/05/15/pelikan-m200m400-and-rohrer-klingner-iron-gall-inks-salix-scabiosa-my-ideal-combos/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/269998-new-research-on-iron-gall-ink/

Edited by Olya
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I collected several inks which are declared/believed to be water resistant so I decided to make a small experiment. I wrote some samples, let the ink dry for about one day and then submerged the right half of the paper into the water for about 30 seconds. Here is the result (click to enlarge):
waterproof-inks-001.jpg
Several inks remained intact - these are the clear winners of this comparison: Monteverde Documental, Koh-I-Noor Document, Noodler's Bad Blue Heron, and Noodler's 54th Massachusetts. Koh-I-Noor surprised me. I tried it several weeks ago by a wet finger and it seemed to be fairly easy to smear. Noodler's inks proved to be bulletproof. Unfortunately, their behaviour is disgusting. They soak into the paper like crazy and have strong tendency to feather and bleed through. When writing with them, I feel like using a felt-tip pen.
Pelikan Fount India and iron gall Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Scabiosa were influenced just a little bit. We can see some washing and light colour changes, but it is just a minor deterioration.
Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black was influenced more. Blue component dismissed, the text is visibly lighter but still perfectly legible.
The biggest disappointment for me was the result of iron gall KWZ inks. KWZ IG Turquoise and IG Mandarin lost all the original rich colours and dismissed almost completely. Washed Turquoise is very light and Mandarin is barely legible. This is so sad because the behaviour of these inks is very good and their original colours are stunning.

 

 

Modern, i.e. post the industrial chemical revolution of the mid 1800's, iron gall inks are a mixture of iron gall and a dye. This is because if you make iron gall in a test tube, it is a faint straw colour until the air gets at it, and it turns black. The dye is added so you can see the ink as you write with it, then the i.g. component turns dark.

 

These dyes are almost always washable.

 

When you put a modern iron gall ink under water, the dye tends to wash out, leaving the black or grey i.g. component. That is the permanent component.

This behaviour is what you see in your samples.

 

The ratio of i.g. to dye governs how much washes out. Diamine Registrars and ESSRI inks have the most, followed by Rohrer & Klingner and Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, with KWZI with the least. This is not to criticise any of them, that is the design decisions made by the maker. You choose what you want.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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I think that's due to the reputed "mild" nature of these modern IG inks. They are deemed "safe" for modern pens (namely steel nibs, as gold nibs were pretty much always safe), but that comes at a price: the IG content is (supposedly & evidently!) quite low, which means the waterproof part will be very light, the darkening effect not too drastic and fading is an issue (R&K specifically), and these also likely won't burn wholes into paper as bad as old formulations would.

 

Actually, the darkening effect of KWZ IG inks is extraordinarily strong, much stronger than Salix or Scabiosa. Both tested KWZ inks came from the pen very bright and vivid and rapidly darken from cyan to teal and from orange to brown.

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  • 7 months later...

 

 

 

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Tests/Fade/2012/Subjects/slides/66-2012-10-14_001.jpg

Is this picture fading by the sun or water resistance?

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