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Stuck Nib Help!



Claud

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Apologies for reviving this thread but I need some help with an enigma. I have an M400 with a nib that is rotating, but will still not come out - it just spins.

 

What's going on? And what should / can I do?

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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Hello,

The nib is rotating, or all nib unit, including feed and collar?

From my experience with vintage 400/N/NN, when the nib unit does not come out after unscrewing, I will recommend to heat section (gently, with hair dryer) and try to pull out with some force.     

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3 hours ago, amk said:

Peço desculpas por reviver este tópico, mas preciso de ajuda com um enigma. Eu tenho um M400 com uma ponta que está girando, mas ainda não sai - ele apenas gira.

 

O que está acontecendo? E o que devo / posso fazer?

Possibly the necklace got stuck / glued by paint. If you pull forward the nib and feed will come out. There is a chance that the necklace is cracked, but this does not happen often in the 400, it is more common in the 400NN, due to the material from which they are made. My suggestion is to let the tip soak in water overnight, and with great sensitivity return the tip inward to firm. Once this is done, it should be unscrewed without a problem. I hope the set has just come undone.
Regards.

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austinwft
4 hours ago, amk said:

Apologies for reviving this thread but I need some help with an enigma. I have an M400 with a nib that is rotating, but will still not come out - it just spins.

 

What's going on? And what should / can I do?

 

Is the pen actually a "M"400 and could it be an early model, from the early to mid 80's I believe, and have a friction fit nib and feed assembly? If so I guess it would just spin if turned in the section but you should be able to just pull the nib/feed unit out.

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sargetalon
9 hours ago, amk said:

Apologies for reviving this thread but I need some help with an enigma. I have an M400 with a nib that is rotating, but will still not come out - it just spins.

 

What's going on? And what should / can I do?

 

An important thing to confirm is whether or not it is a 400 or M400?  Different materials with different fragilities so good to know going into it.  Presuming a modern M400 as stated...

 

Option 1 is that it is a friction fit feed but that is a rarer find and therefore less likely.  The more likely option here is that the collar is stuck in the section and that the feed and nib are rotating inside the stuck collar.  Do you actually see the collar rotate or just the nib and feed?

 

If the latter, I would start with an escalating strategy here.  First I would soak the nib assembly and section extensively.  Fill the pen with water then put it in a cup with water just up to the section so that any dried ink has a chance to dissolve then reattempt removal.  If that fails, do it again.  Be patient.  Failing any relief with repeated soakings, some gentle heat applied to the section would be another option.  

 

If all else fails, what I have done is pull out the nib and feed.  I then very carefully insert a sharp triangular edged knife into the opening.  I let the blade bite into the collar slightly and then turn the section.  This usually resolves the issue by breaking the collar free but it has a risk of damaging the section and/or collar plus you have to reseat the nib and feed back into the collar afterwards so this is not preferred.  I only provide it here as an illustration of something that has worked for me in the past but not something I'm necessarily suggesting that you do.  If soaking alone can get it done, that is the best way to go.  Just be patient and don't force things that don't feel right and don't take on anything you're uncomfortable doing.

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Thanks Sargetalon, what you say feels exactly like what I'm experiencing. It's been soaking a while, and still no progress with actually coming out. I'll try with some heat and hopefully that will make a difference, otherwise I will escalate.

 

So I hadn't realised; it's only the collar that actually screws, the rest is push fit. I just took out a spare m200 nib unit I have and now I see how it works.

 

Wait till you see my next two repair jobs! One m400 with the female bit of the piston mechanism shattered, and one frankenpen (400nn piston, 400 cap) where the top of the barrel has pieces missing so I can use the piston mechanism, but only if I rememember to push while I'm turning it so that it doesn't fall out. It's a nice pen apart from that, quite a nice tortoise binde on the lighter side of brown.

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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So I've got the nib and feed out! It turns out that the heat did the job nicely. I suspect someone's been using glue as there was a nasty whitish residue around the very edge.

 

So now for the next bit. If it goes wrong, I have a couple of M200 calligraphy nib units I can swap in while I'm waiting for a new collar, anyway 🙂

 

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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On 1/26/2021 at 7:02 PM, amk said:

 

So now for the next bit. If it goes wrong, I have a couple of M200 calligraphy nib units I can swap in while I'm waiting for a new collar, anyway

If I have understood well, do you have the stuck collar in the 100N grip section now?

Do you suspect having damaged the collar?

There are non-destructive ways of unscrewing the stuck collar. It happened to me few times. Days of soaking in distilled water and some ultrasound cleaning helped me. Previously I had removed the piston system (reverse threaded!). I could not only clean everything better, but also access the collar from that side with the slightly conical wooden handle of a small acquarel paint brush which could friction fit. With a little help from careful heating it eventually unscrewed. 

This requires patience, gentle hands and a bit of experience. 

Please, don’t take this as suggestion or encouragement, just as description of what has worked for me.

 

PS. To make sure about wording: the nib and feed push-fit into the collar, so the three together make the nib unit, which then screws as a whole into the grip section of the body.

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Thanks Stoen. You've got it exactly right, the collar is now stuck. I have been trying to get it out as Sargetalon suggested but it's not going well - I've nicked the sides of the section a couple of times and I don't want to go further unless I do some serious damage.

 

I think the idea of finding a conical paintbrush handle I can use is a good one. They're fairly soft wood too so unlikely to damage anything. 

 

I'll try the ultrasonic too. 

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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If available, I would recommend disposable chopsticks or 割り箸 (waribashi). In my experience, its square and slightly tapered shape will fit any size of collars and make enough friction. They really "rescued" many collars of my Pelikan 100 pens.

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1 hour ago, tacitus said:

I would recommend disposable chopsticks

In my experience, all such tools would work. The essential tool is patience and caution:

22469069-E77B-43DC-99C7-8FFA81DCF865.jpeg.d5f81b6c0019d2cf20060b5b0f3c4b6e.jpeg

 

For those who are not familiar with P100 / P100N / P400 engineering, the importance of triple-checking that the tool is only slightly conical cannot be overstressed. The inner diameter of the grip-section is almost identical to the bore of the collar. This is for making sure the “tool” friction-fits the collar, not the grip-section instead (in case you access the collar from the inside)! Else you may do serious damage. You may need to hand lap and trim your “tool”. You can try also accessing it from the nib-side, in any case, it is good to remove the piston mechanism before if you are familiar with it.

 

There is also a nib assembly unscrew wrench, which works with later P100N and P400/N/NN pens. Please take a look at this article. If you can see two notches on the collar from the nib side, this may apply to your pen.

https://thepelikansperch.com/2019/08/18/pelikan-vintage-nib-removal-tool/

 

Please, remember: Water, time, ultrasound and gentle heat are your friends. If it doesn’t unscrew rather easily after a while or if you are unfamiliar with this, please send it to a professional repairperson. No one here feels like sharing responsability in case you do some damage to your valuable pen.

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Now I know why I save chopsticks from my takeaways!

 

Thanks guys - the pen is not an important one; it's very much user grade. I've got the nib and feed out safely, anyway.

 

Don't worry, lots of patience being applied here. 

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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