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Sailor Or Pilot Or Platinum?


max dog

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Thank you Bluey. It feels like the Sailor KOP may be an inevitable Japanese pen that will find it's way into my collection sooner or later. The big soft nib is compelling.

 

 

 

Thanks Shuuemera

I wasn't aware of the Pilot Custom Urushi. I researched it a little on FPN and found this post from another thread about this pen.

Looks like another very, very nice pen from Pilot along the lines of a 149 and M1000 but with it's own unique character. It is pricey though.

 

So it looks like either a Sailor KOP or Pilot Custom Urushi are contenders here for some of the finest Japanese pen writing experiences to think about.

 

 

Try a Sailor 1911s(or Pro Gear slim if you intend to go for a Pro Gear KoP) MF if you want to try an inexpensive one beforehand because the KoP is a lot of money. It will give you a taste of what they're like without breaking the bank. Better to get your fingers burnt on <$100 than $600+.

 

The MF(not available on most KoPs though, but is almost 'standard' on the lower priced Sailors) I think is a sweat spot for nibs because it's wider enough to be really smooth but also not too wide that it causes feathering on some cheap paper. It's like a perfect width.

 

You can easily sell(they are easy to sell in that price bracket) the 1911 afterwards for near to what you paid for it, so there is nothing lost.

Edited by Bluey
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My sailor pro gear earth has a 21k nib but isn't the kop version. Is the kop version bigger and softer?

 

Bigger, yes. Mostly girth. Softer, is hard to say.

...So much ink, so little penmanship....

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The 21K on the Sailor Pro Gear Earth is a nail. Still a nice writer, but softness is not a feature whatsoever.

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After I posted this it occurred to me I should clarify "best", but I was on the train and this was about the extent of what I could type out on my little phone.

 

For someone like me coming over from using mostly western fountain pens like Montblanc, Pelikan, Sheaffer, Cross, Parker etc, what Japanese nib might I enjoy best? I don't think an ultra fine nib will be my cup of tea at this point. My ideal daily use nib would be a western Fine, that is very wet, responsive, and smooth but not buttery smooth.

 

Based on my experience, I think you would find the Sailor too scratchy, even in a Fine. I haven't tried the Medium. I actually have a small production Jinhao Fine that I'm using a my daily carry pen (I'm worried about losing better pens) in a fine nib that I find is quite responsive. My Sailor is a better pen but more finicky.

Festina lente

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Interesting about the Bock. My Yard O Led has a very nice writing Bock nib. Would the Eboya be along those lines?

 

Edited to add: How would the Pilot 823 14K SF compare to Sailor KOP 21K F? Like a soft, wet, responsive writer with a smooth but nice feedback. Which would be a more pleasant nib?

 

 

I have the Pilot 823 F, but not SF. Although I had a Falcon SF, which I would say was very springy, but not soft (the Pelikan M1000 is soft for me), My Pilot 823 writes very well and is very smooth, but it is not soft. All my Pilots have butter smooth nibs.

 

My experience with Sailor is limited: a 1911s 14k F (an absolute nail), A pro-gear 21k M with a delightful soft nib - this one made me reconsider and go for the KoP pro-gear and that one, which arrived 2 weeks ago, became an instant favorite.

 

The KoP has an amazing B nib (which writes like a western medium). The nib is soft, but not as soft as the one in the Pelikan M1000, and it is smooth but with a hint of feedback - you can feel the paper.

I strongly recommend the KoP if you want a soft nib. But the pro-gear 21K is also soft (from my limited experience), although not as much as the KoP.

 

One last observation, if posting is important for you, the KoP Pro-gear does not post securely.

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Still learning a lot about nibs so do ignore these questions if I just haven't dug deeply enough into previous threads....

 

It sounds like there is a difference between "soft" and "smooth," while I've been thinking about them as the same thing. Does "soft" actually refer to the flexibility of a nib (rather than the smoothness of its writing)?

 

Also working hard on the abbreviations but haven't found this one yet: What is an sfm nib (e.g., the Pilot 74 sfm)?

 

~M

Moderation in everything, including moderation.

--Mark Twain

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Pilot has sf, sfm, sm nibs: soft fine, soft fine medium, soft medium.

 

Smoothness is the feeling when writing, meaning how the nib (or rather the tipping - the ball) feels when it glides on the surface of the paper.

 

Softness is the bouncy feeling a nib has. No modern soft nib is a flex nib, ever (except perhaps Noodler's pens, but that isn't my niche, so I can't give adequate advice on what is the best modern flex nib). They are just "soft", bouncy, less stiff than say Lamy nibs or I don't know what brand you've tried so far. Soft nibs are not meant for line variation, but their softness does mean that the tines will spread farther apart under pressure than stiffer nibs.

 

Sailor does not have soft nibs (anymore), but like Pilot they offer: f, mf, m nibs: fine, medium fine, medium. Usually marked e.g. "H-M" (meaning "Hard Medium").

 

Platinum does not have an mf/ fm equivalent, "just" f & m or sf & sm.

 

PS You'll definitely find out more by researching, but I think these are good starting points :)

Edited by Olya
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Some people say that soft nibs tend to have more feedback than regular nibs, but if so then the actual softness offsets any difference in smoothness.

 

Sailor has soft nibs in the KoP line. For Pilot there's also the FA nib in their soft nibs, which I would say is quite a lot softer than the other Pilot soft nibs and also the Ahab(even softer than the modified Ahab with wings), and definitely softer than a Pilot Falcon(this is more like a hard or regular nib but with subtle softness).

 

This tells of the different naming and nib widths of their standard range nibs, but doesn't include most of the Sailor speciality nibs.

http://www.engeika.com/page/44

 

Sailor speciality nibs you can read about here

https://www.nibs.com/content/sailor-specialty-nibs

http://www.sailorpen.co.uk/nagahara-story.html

Edited by Bluey
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Thank you, Olya and Bluey. What great starting points you've given me. And this distinction--"Some people say that soft nibs tend to have more feedback than regular nibs, but if so then the actual softness offsets any difference in smoothness"--goes a long way in helping me to make a distinction between smoothness, softness, and feedback.

 

And having this continuum (f, mf, m nibs: fine, medium fine, medium) gives me so much more insight into the abbreviations and how the nib types relate to each other.

 

Thanks so much, you two!

Edited by madeline

Moderation in everything, including moderation.

--Mark Twain

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You're welcome, madeline! :happyberet:

 

PS Pilot obviously has also "regular" hard f, fm and m nibs.

 

Bluey rightly points out that Sailor indeed has soft nibs, but those can only be found on the very expensive Sailor pens, whereas Pilot's and Platinum's soft nibs can be found on the more budget friendly pens as well as more expensive ones.

Edited by Olya
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Tons of great info here. Thanks everyone for your input. Bluey's statement that the Sailor nibs are an acquired taste piqued my interest more.

 

When I decide to pull the trigger on the next high end Japanese pen, it will be one of the Sailor KOPs with 21K B nib.

Edited by max dog
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Tons of great info here. Thanks everyone for your input. Bluey's statement that the Sailor nibs are an acquired taste piqued my interest more.

 

When I decide to pull the trigger on the next high end Japanese pen, it will be one of the Sailor KOPs with 21K B nib.

It will be great to hear your thoughts about it if you decide to pull the trigger.

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Edited to add: How would the Pilot 823 14K SF compare to Sailor KOP 21K F? Like a soft, wet, responsive writer with a smooth but nice feedback. Which would be a more pleasant nib?

1. Sailor KOP is not supplied with an F nib. M, B and speciality nibs only.

2. Pilot Custom 823 is not supplied with an SF nib. Only F, M, B and 2 other nibs exclusive to a certain shop.

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I have both a Pilot Custom 823 (smoke) Fine and KOP Pro Gear Broad en route to me from Japan and are all still 2-3 weeks out.

 

The 823 will be my work pen... lots of travel and lots of note taking in journals. Comfortable, large ink reservoir, writes precise, smooth fine nib, travels well in planes, professional and not obnoxious - are qualities I was looking for.

 

My KOP will be my at home fun/personal pen. Comfortable, bold, fun, easily changed ink, makes me smile every time I see and pick up, smooth, reveals ink qualities, celebrates the joys of collecting and writing - are qualities I was looking for.

 

For both, inherent quality control out of the box was also a strong consideration.

 

I also have a TWSBI -B- and Metropolitan -F-, but want to keep a very small number of pens and as a result currently have no interest in expanding into exotic nibs to keep my interest going. I'm a bit at the edge of my seat (for a month) wondering what the pricier gold nibbed pens will deliver beyond what I already have. I'm trying to moderate expectations. My Broad 580AL is absolutely fantastic. The Metro runs like clockwork, even if slightly on the scratchy side. I have no experience with softer pens... I think both incoming are a bit more bouncy than the 2 I already have. Something about Platinum just has not yet done it for me yet.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have had mostly Pilots with fine nibs (several Vanishing Points, and a Custom 74) and have been extremely happy with them. My curiosity got the best of me so I tried out a Platinum 3776 with a fine nib. At first I was a little unsure about it, I though it was too scratchy. I got a Sailor 1911 with the 21K fine nib, and I like it a lot. I got another Platinum 3776 with a soft fine nib, and I like it a lot too. I went back the original Platinum with the fine nib and I put some Sailor ink in it. I have finally found the pen I like the most. It is butter smooth, but has a touch of feedback that really feels right to me. I think the ink has something to do with it. Although I don't think you can go wrong with any of the pens, I love my Platinum 3776 with a fine nib the most.

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I have had mostly Pilots with fine nibs (several Vanishing Points, and a Custom 74) and have been extremely happy with them. My curiosity got the best of me so I tried out a Platinum 3776 with a fine nib. At first I was a little unsure about it, I though it was too scratchy. I got a Sailor 1911 with the 21K fine nib, and I like it a lot. I got another Platinum 3776 with a soft fine nib, and I like it a lot too. I went back the original Platinum with the fine nib and I put some Sailor ink in it. I have finally found the pen I like the most. It is butter smooth, but has a touch of feedback that really feels right to me. I think the ink has something to do with it. Although I don't think you can go wrong with any of the pens, I love my Platinum 3776 with a fine nib the most.

Interesting - I find my 1911 scratchier than my Platinum, both in F. I had been using the Sailor Jentle cartridges but decided to play around with ink and now have their chestnut brown in the cartridge and the pen seems to be writing more smoothly. Perhaps ink has more to do with the "smoothness" of a pen than I had previously thought.

Festina lente

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Depends on what you want to use your pen for.

* Sketching.

* Signatures.

* Showing off.

* Showing off your penmanship.

* Developing penmanship.

* Collectible?

* Notes at office meetings.

* Letters.

* Etc.

 

So much to consider. If you just want a big expensive pen, there are a number of choices.

If you need something more serviceable, there are many other options that won't empty youor wallet as much.

stan

Formerly Ryojusen Pens
The oldest and largest buyer and seller of vintage Japanese pens in America.


Member: Pen Collectors of America & Fuente, THE Japanese Pen Collectors Club

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to echo the comments about the great information on this thread....I too am considering adding a Japanese EDC, and was looking at a Sailor Pro Gear Regular size initially. I use my pen at work to take fast notes, and usually go for a European fine nib, and size wise MB146 or Pelikan M800 unposted...

 

So I assume either a medium nib or medium fine would be best, and is it worth forking out for the Realo....I do love a piston filler but not sure if it adds huge value

 

Thanks

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do love a piston filler but not sure if it adds huge value

 

 

I mostly use the Sailor Jentle proprietary cartridges in my 1911 - the black isn't a bad ink. Since my Sailor seems a bit more finicky than my other pens I try not to vary my inks or use the converter with it too often.

 

 

Festina lente

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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