Penbbs 308

[Drone]

Thanks for the update, Drone!

 

The 308-41SF is called "Sand" color in Chinese, so it's interesting to see that it's just grey without any tan hue as I have seen in some online photos.

 

Do you have any non-stub #6 nibs to try in the pen? The reason I ask is because stub nibs have a shorter end and thus don't usually scratch the top of the inner cap on the 308 like other nibs do. My Goulet 1.1 stub always worked decently in my 266/308, but a JoWo EF or Knox OB would get pushed to the side every time I capped the pen.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the need for more normal looking opaque Penbbs pens! I just can't whip out some wild "Hawaiian" pineapple colored thing in an important meeting. Thankfully there is a plain black option for the 308 now (if they'd only make a black 309!), but still the opaque options are limited.

 

@TruthPil,

 

Sorry for the late reply. I didn't catch your FPN post because it reflected to my Spam folder this time instead of my Inbox. It happens sometimes no matter how many non-Spam examples the Bayesian filter sees.

 

Q1. "The 308-41SF is called "Sand" color in Chinese, so it's interesting to see that it's just grey without any tan hue as I have seen in some online photos."

 

A1. The color is as it appears in my picture, a solid gray. There are no brown tints or inclusions mixed in as far as I can tell. However, the gray plastic is a bit translucent. For example, you can see some light through the barrel if you hold it up to a strong light. But as I'm using the pen - with a converter, for practical purposes the pen plastic is opaque. However, if you use the pen as an eyedropper-filler, I imagine that under certain lighting conditions the semi-transparent barrel might look darker due to the ink inside.

 

Q2. "Do you have any non-stub #6 nibs to try in the pen? The reason I ask is because stub nibs have a shorter end and thus don't usually scratch the top of the inner cap on the 308 like other nibs do. My Goulet 1.1 stub always worked decently in my 266/308, but a JoWo EF or Knox OB would get pushed to the side every time I capped the pen."

 

A2. Stub versus non-stub nibs of the same series from the same manufacturer should be the same length. And that is true in this case. I pulled the #6 chrome-tone steel Goulet/JOWO 1.1mm stub out of my gray Penbbs 308 and measured it against a loose #6 two-tone steel Goulet/JOWO Fine nib that I have laying around. The results:

 

* JOWO 1.1mm #6 Stub Nib: 34.83 mm long.

 

* JOWO Fine #6 Nib: 34.96 mm long.

 

The difference is just 0.13 mm, so for practical purposes the two nibs are the same length. I tried the Goulet/Jowo two-tone fine nib in the 308 pen. Just like the 1.1 mm stub nib, it didn't hit the cap. Like the stub, the fine nib works well in the 308. But be careful, I'm experimenting on a sample of only ONE pen. So YMMV.

 

Here is a picture of my two #6 JOWO nibs side-by-side. If it isn't obvious, the chrome-tone nib on the top is the stub:

 

 

Have fun!

Edited September 12, 2018 by Drone

[truthpil]

Drone, thanks so much for the very thorough reply! You've helped me refine my thinking on the issue and figure out what's really causing the nib shoving.

 

With my 308 at least, I guess the issue about non-stubs catching on the cap while the stubs don't isn't due to length afterall, but due to the tipping material. The non-stub nibs stick up a little on the tip (as seen in the photo) and evidently that little bump is what has been catching. This must be the reason because the nib that gets pushed around the most is my JoWo #6 with Waverly nib. That upturned tip is what is catching on the inside of the cap. By contrast, the stub nibs lie totally flat because they don't have any tipping and no raised end on the tip.

 

It's great that your 308 doesn't have that issue, but I guess one can't buy one of these pens with absolutely certainty that it will work with their nibs. Good old Chinese quality control strikes again!

 

The 309 has none of these problems in the cap, but it also costs twice as much as a 308.

[truthpil]

 

Q1. "The 308-41SF is called "Sand" color in Chinese, so it's interesting to see that it's just grey without any tan hue as I have seen in some online photos."

 

A1. The color is as it appears in my picture, a solid gray. There are no brown tints or inclusions mixed in as far as I can tell. However, the gray plastic is a bit translucent. For example, you can see some light through the barrel if you hold it up to a strong light. But as I'm using the pen - with a converter, for practical purposes the pen plastic is opaque. However, if you use the pen as an eyedropper-filler, I imagine that under certain lighting conditions the semi-transparent barrel might look darker due to the ink inside.

 

Thanks for clarifying about the color. Grey sounds much nicer than grey-tan haha.

It's also really good to know that these solid color versions seem like cheaper material than the colorful acrylic versions.

The material of my flecked green 308 is very solid and feels outstandingly strong. The same can be said for the slightly more transparent blue material on my "South Seas" 309.

[Drone]

With my 308 at least, I guess the issue about non-stubs catching on the cap while the stubs don't isn't due to length afterall, but due to the tipping material. The non-stub nibs stick up a little on the tip (as seen in the photo) and evidently that little bump is what has been catching. This must be the reason because the nib that gets pushed around the most is my JoWo #6 with Waverly nib. That upturned tip is what is catching on the inside of the cap. By contrast, the stub nibs lie totally flat because they don't have any tipping and no raised end on the tip.

 

You make a good point. If I look inside the caps of the two 308's I own, they look the same. Inside the cap towards the finial end there is what looks like a cylindrical metal stud with a hole in it. I guess if you're lucky the tip of the nib will spin around safely inside that hole when you screw the cap down. And if you are not lucky... oops

 

But I don't think that's what is going on with my gray 308. As I stated previously, compared with my white/clear 308 the transplanted #6 JOWO nib in my gray 308 fits deeper inside the section. Therefore the tip doesn't reach any of the inside parts of the cap when closed.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Drone

[truthpil]

 

But I don't think that's what is going on with my gray 308. As I stated previously, compared with my white/clear 308 the transplanted #6 JOWO nib in my gray 308 fits deeper inside the section. Therefore the tip doesn't reach any of the inside parts of the cap when closed.

 

This is really fascinating! Are the feeds and nib unit housings identical between the two pens? If the caps are identical inside, then I wonder if they changed something about the nib assembly itself to make the nib go down in farther. Then again, it might just be a factory fluke.

[Drone]

 

This is really fascinating! Are the feeds and nib unit housings identical between the two pens? If the caps are identical inside, then I wonder if they changed something about the nib assembly itself to make the nib go down in farther. Then again, it might just be a factory fluke.

 

The next time I re-ink the gray pen I'll pull it apart again and see what (if-any) obvious differences there are between the nib units. All I can say for now is the two caps "look" the same inside, and the nib and feed insert deeper in the gray pen compared with the clear/white version.

 

The manufacturer may use different molds to make the gray pens versus the clear/white pens, but I seriously doubt it. Molds are expensive and time consuming to make. Therefore the differences between the two pens are likely due to varying tolerances between the two production runs. I wouldn't surprised me to see different results between the gray and clear/white pen production runs because to me the plastics used in the two pens seem different in composition and/or type. Different materials change differently when heated and cooled. This can have an impact in production results, especially if parts are released from the molds too soon and allowed to bin cool.

[Drone]

Here is a picture comparing the parts of my gray (Model 308-41SF) and white/clear (Model 308-43GF) Penbbs 308 pens. The white/clear parts with the original #6 gold-tone steel nib are on the left. The gray parts with the replacement steel Goulet/JOWO #6 1.1mm stub nib on are on the right.



Here is a link to a higher resolution (2807x2010) version of the same picture:

 

https://i.imgur.com/MjDjo7I.jpg

I cannot see any significant difference between the two sets of parts in terms of the section, feed, and nib-unit collar. In-fact, with the white/clear pen's nib-unit collar out of the section, unlike before with the nib-unit screwed in I am able to push the JOWO 1.1mm stub nib down far enough to avoid hitting the internal parts of the cap when the pen is closed. But it does take some effort. This seems to prove that the differences are just varying tolerances in how the parts are manufactured.

Note the differences in the converters between the two pens. In my experience, the white/clear converter on the left is much worse in terms of quality compared with the converter from the gray pen. The white converter leaks, traps ink, and doesn't fit well into the nib-unit and section. The converter on the right from the gray pen doesn't leak and fits much better. Also the converter from the gray pen has a metal coil in the ink chamber that aids with ink flow. Unfortunately, I cannot disassemble either converter for cleaning or maintenance, the metal collar will not come off.

 

Looking at the two sections at the top of the picture, you can see some blue staining on the section from the white/clear pen. Using mild detergents and a bit of elbow grease, I cannot remove the stains. The only ink used in the white/clear pen to-date has been Pilot/Namiki blue, which is known to be a safe and well-behaved ink. To be frank, I'm not surprised to see staining on a translucent piece of molded plastic. It is as expected. As seen on the right, there is similar staining on the end of the section from the gray pen.

Note, there is a small clear plastic washer on the nib unit collar which can be easily lost when the nib unit is unscrewed from the section. You can see this thin plastic washer better on the nib-unit collar from the gray pen shown on the right. At first glance I have no idea what this washer does, but just in-case don't lose it.

 

Have Fun... David

 

[DasKaltblut]

The Penbbs converter does come apart. I just had mine apart - the metal collar slips off backwards. I used a rubber jar gripper and it came off no problem. It also went back together no problem. Try a magic eraser on the stain. Although it looks like the stain is darker on the gray pen?

[truthpil]

Thanks for solving that mystery! It does seem to just be a variation in tolerances, lucky for you!

The staining tells me that any further Penbbs pens I get need to be in dark colors haha. Thankfully I haven't noticed any staining with my flecked green acrylic version (and that material really does feel top notch, no cheap plastic there).

 

I'm pretty sure that a good soaking in Rapido-eez followed by a good scrub with a toothbrush could get the stains out. That stuff has worked miracles for me.

 

Oddly enough, my 308 came with one of those black converters and it was a total dud that eventually ended up in the trash can. These differences are just classic cases of unreliable (or wholly non-existent) Chinese quality control. I guess it just comes with the territory.

 

 

Here is a picture comparing the parts of my gray (Model 308-41SF) and white/clear (Model 308-43GF) Penbbs 308 pens. The white/clear parts with the original #6 gold-tone steel nib are on the left. The gray parts with the replacement steel Goulet/JOWO #6 1.1mm stub nib on are on the right.



Here is a link to a higher resolution (2807x2010) version of the same picture:

 

https://i.imgur.com/MjDjo7I.jpg

I cannot see any significant difference between the two sets of parts in terms of the section, feed, and nib-unit collar. In-fact, with the white/clear pen's nib-unit collar out of the section, unlike before with the nib-unit screwed in I am able to push the JOWO 1.1mm stub nib down far enough to avoid hitting the internal parts of the cap when the pen is closed. But it does take some effort. This seems to prove that the differences are just varying tolerances in how the parts are manufactured.

Note the differences in the converters between the two pens. In my experience, the white/clear converter on the left is much worse in terms of quality compared with the converter from the gray pen. The white converter leaks, traps ink, and doesn't fit well into the nib-unit and section. The converter on the right from the gray pen doesn't leak and fits much better. Also the converter from the gray pen has a metal coil in the ink chamber that aids with ink flow. Unfortunately, I cannot disassemble either converter for cleaning or maintenance, the metal collar will not come off.

 

Looking at the two sections at the top of the picture, you can see some blue staining on the section from the white/clear pen. Using mild detergents and a bit of elbow grease, I cannot remove the stains. The only ink used in the white/clear pen to-date has been Pilot/Namiki blue, which is known to be a safe and well-behaved ink. To be frank, I'm not surprised to see staining on a translucent piece of molded plastic. It is as expected. As seen on the right, there is similar staining on the end of the section from the gray pen.

Note, there is a small clear plastic washer on the nib unit collar which can be easily lost when the nib unit is unscrewed from the section. You can see this thin plastic washer better on the nib-unit collar from the gray pen shown on the right. At first glance I have no idea what this washer does, but just in-case don't lose it.

 

Have Fun... David

 

 

[Drone]

The Penbbs converter does come apart. I just had mine apart - the metal collar slips off backwards. I used a rubber jar gripper and it came off no problem. It also went back together no problem. Try a magic eraser on the stain. Although it looks like the stain is darker on the gray pen?

 

@DasKaltblut (cold blood?),

 

Thanks for your comments. Others have pointed out they can get their Penbbs included converter apart, and I do not doubt them. But the two converters in my Penbbs pens will not come apart, and believe me I've tried to the point of almost damaging them.

 

I have heard of "Magic Erasers" now that I have returned to the U.S. from living in Asia. If I'm not mistaken Magic Erasers here in the U.S. are just Melamine foam pads which act as a micro-abrasive. I do not think it is a good idea to use an abrasive to remove ink stains from plastic that will just be stained all over again. In-fact the micro-abrasions from the melamine foam may encourage even deeper stains. Melamine sponge abrasive cleaners are highly effective though, but only when used occasionally or on hard surfaces.

 

Yes the stain looks darker on the gray pen, but I think that is because I did not clean it as well as the white/clear pen this time around. After a thorough cleaning the somewhat boring white/clear pen is going into storage. The gray pen with the stub nib is staying in rotation because it is fun to use. You are right though, both pens stain a bit with the Pilot/Namiki Blue. I can live with it.

[Drone]

Oddly enough, my 308 came with one of those black converters and it was a total dud that eventually ended up in the trash can. These differences are just classic cases of unreliable (or wholly non-existent) Chinese quality control. I guess it just comes with the territory.

 

I'm veering a bit O.T. here...

 

Don't discount the quality of affordable Chinese manufactured products, it can be excellent - when they want it to be, and when it's allowed to happen.

 

Here is a recent example: I just bought a folding knife made in China from a new company named CIVIVI, which is a spin-off from the Chinese high-end cutlery manufacturer WE knives. The knife cost just $42.50 USD purchased from Blade HQ, a U.S. reseller out of Utah.

 

Straight out of the box the quality of the materials and manufacturing are equivalent to knives costing four times as much. Here's a link to the knife I purchased on the CIVIVI English Web site:

 

http://civivi.com/plus/view.php?aid=58

 

And here's a picture of my actual Model C801C knife. Let's hope CIVIVI is allowed to keep this up...

 

 

 

[truthpil]

I agree that Chinese are making some excellent products lately, especially when those products are for export. Even for the local market, I've been really impressed by Kinbor paper and journals lately which rival Tomoe River in paper quality and cost far less within China. It's just often little inexpensive things like pen converters that they skimp on.

 

 

BTW, that is a great looking knife!

Edited September 18, 2018 by TruthPil

[Mech-for-i]

nice piece of a knife, too busy dealing with Super Typhoon MANGKHUT coming to town these past few days , trying to calm oneself in such condition can be a challenge .. really ... actually this trend of quality incremental improvement is nothing new .. I had been seeing this in all sorts of products sine the 90s but generally what I see now in fountain pen category from China is a segregation of market ... not just China though ... the general top end and mid to top end pens certainly are there but the serious ( not economy price bracket ) user / hobbyist end market I see only some limited effort by a few Asian Mfr , including the like of Platinum, Pilot, Hero, a school of Indian Mfr and only to a lesser extent the like of TWSBI , and very few European brand.

 

I think one of the reason why this category of Chinese fountain pen not really finding much with the rest of the world had to do with the fact that they tend to favor their home market preference to the point that these pens really are not typically hype and fashionable to the market. That is until recent years with the like of PenBBS .. still old names like Hero like to do things their own way and who can blame them .. they have a good business doing that and need no change and the effort to push for an international market awareness just do not justify the effort and certainly do not bring the profit in proportion to invested cost.

 

Part of that is the market culture and entrenched mis-conception as discussed

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mech-for-i

[Drone]

The thing to watch out for is control of Chinese companies that don't "behave" according to the wishes of the Government or State backed Organizations or Unions. If one Chinese company innovates and does something much better than other "competing" Chinese companies, this can upset the stability of the industry as a collective whole. So to stop this disruption, the innovative company may be "asked" to be less innovative. You see this kind of rouge behavior by small Chinese companies who are often spin-offs from larger manufacturers who want to safely experiment in the marketplace. They can get away with more in foreign markets because of less Chinese domestic visibility and less disruption to the domestic market. Plus the profit margins can be a higher in foreign markets which helps fund the experiments. This is why I worry about how long innovative Chinese start-ups like Penbbs and CIVIVI Knives might last.

[pomps]

That CIVIVI is beautiful. But the price is high for a spin-off Chinese knife with 9Cr18MoV blade and G10 don't you think?

You can get an excellent Sanrenmu Land folding knife with 12C27 blade or a 440C blade Ganzo for less than $20

 

 

I'm veering a bit O.T. here...

Don't discount the quality of affordable Chinese manufactured products, it can be excellent - when they want it to be, and when it's allowed to happen.

Here is a recent example: I just bought a folding knife made in China from a new company named CIVIVI, which is a spin-off from the Chinese high-end cutlery manufacturer WE knives. The knife cost just $42.50 USD purchased from Blade HQ, a U.S. reseller out of Utah.

Straight out of the box the quality of the materials and manufacturing are equivalent to knives costing four times as much. Here's a link to the knife I purchased on the CIVIVI English Web site:

http://civivi.com/plus/view.php?aid=58

And here's a picture of my actual Model C801C knife. Let's hope CIVIVI is allowed to keep this up...

[lovementos]

I love these pens, though I prefer the solid 309s a wee bit more. If it helps, heres a Google Doc with the names and pictures of the finishes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13t8-xB4qgO11RpuXsiuj5SfrtVMHeniPRTnwuGgOCCU

[bobje]

Mentos, this is an extremely useful Penbbs document, and thank you for compiling it.

[penzel_washinkton]

I love these pens, though I prefer the solid 309s a wee bit more. If it helps, heres a Google Doc with the names and pictures of the finishes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13t8-xB4qgO11RpuXsiuj5SfrtVMHeniPRTnwuGgOCCU

 

Amazing job and much appreciated!

[lovementos]

Mentos, this is an extremely useful Penbbs document, and thank you for compiling it.

No worries! Here’s one for inks: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nqpJiGc_LCjfJP48rH99XbG7TGyozJoI-dECEjwFZG8

 

But due to the sheer number, I only tried to compile the names.

[truthpil]

I love these pens, though I prefer the solid 309s a wee bit more. If it helps, heres a Google Doc with the names and pictures of the finishes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13t8-xB4qgO11RpuXsiuj5SfrtVMHeniPRTnwuGgOCCU

 

This is amazing! It saves me the time of having to carefully look at each photo to figure out which colors are opaque.

Thanks so much!!