Goulet On Monteverde Monza V. 922

[TSherbs]

Agreed, but that's the buyer's opinion and point of view (one with which I agree).

 

That doesn't mean it's good evidence that Brian thinks the Monzas are (bleep) pens. He's just treating the Monzas like any other Monteverde pen, and it's likely, since this is how things often go on the business end, that he has an arrangement with Monteverde for the giveaway, as Monteverde wants to promote their inks.

 

"Evidence"?

 

Brian's not dumb, and he told us his reaction when the pens were first shipped to him. He wasn't happy. The point he made was that they looked just like the 992. That doesn't make it a bleep pen. It just makes it, competitively speaking, a bad deal. And thus the ink promo was born.

[crosshatch]

All I'm saying is that the ink deal preceded the arrival of the Monza and therefore it's highly unlikely that it's a ploy to justify the price of the Monza.

 

Brian isn't dumb, and he's also not someone who tries to pull the wool over his customers' eyes. If he thought the pen was a terrible deal, he wouldn't be selling it, or he would have made the deal specifically for the Monza. He wouldn't be giving away free ink with all Monteverde pens just to cover up or excuse the fact that he thought the Monza is a bad deal.

 

Also, the Chinese pen world is full of rip-unders (because they're not exactly rip-offs if it's the same companies making the pens who are selling them unbranded) and clones of other pens. Why people are making such a big deal about it with the Monza is kind of confusing to me.

[Jamerelbe]

All I'm saying is that the ink deal preceded the arrival of the Monza and therefore it's highly unlikely that it's a ploy to justify the price of the Monza.

 

Brian isn't dumb, and he's also not someone who tries to pull the wool over his customers' eyes. If he thought the pen was a terrible deal, he wouldn't be selling it, or he would have made the deal specifically for the Monza. He wouldn't be giving away free ink with all Monteverde pens just to cover up or excuse the fact that he thought the Monza is a bad deal.

 

Also, the Chinese pen world is full of rip-unders (because they're not exactly rip-offs if it's the same companies making the pens who are selling them unbranded) and clones of other pens. Why people are making such a big deal about it with the Monza is kind of confusing to me.

 

I think people are making a big deal of it because the Monza came onto the market sometime *after* the 992 made its appearance. Granted, the same could be said of the Monteverde Impreza (?) and the Baoer 051 (though there's at least evidence of design modification, with the Monteverde sporting a #6 nib vs the Baoer's #5) - but this *looks* like Monteverde / Yafa taking an existing low-end (Chinese) pen, rebranding it, and selling it for a massive mark-up.

 

I don't have strong feelings on this, either way - but I don't entirely blame those who do. I think Monteverde have gotten caught out here, trying to sell a sub-standard product - and if they keep it up, they run the risk of doing damage to their brand.

[crosshatch]

 

I think people are making a big deal of it because the Monza came onto the market sometime *after* the 992 made its appearance. Granted, the same could be said of the Monteverde Impreza (?) and the Baoer 051 (though there's at least evidence of design modification, with the Monteverde sporting a #6 nib vs the Baoer's #5) - but this *looks* like Monteverde / Yafa taking an existing low-end (Chinese) pen, rebranding it, and selling it for a massive mark-up.

 

I don't have strong feelings on this, either way - but I don't entirely blame those who do. I think Monteverde have gotten caught out here, trying to sell a sub-standard product - and if they keep it up, they run the risk of doing damage to their brand.

 

These points are understandable. But I guess I assumed that Monteverde nibs, which run $20+ USD, are better than Jinhao nibs. I just assumed that, wherever they get them manufactured, the nibs would be better quality than whatever's in the 992.

 

I don't have a lot of experience with Monteverde nibs, as I've never personally found their pens that appealing, but Jinhao nibs have been pretty hit or miss for me, and I've usually upgraded the nibs with Jowos or frankenpenned them with dip nibs.

[TSherbs]

My 992s write every time I pick them up. My Monteverdes do not. And my Monteverdes run dry after a page of writing. I don't know how the Monza does, nor how the nib is. But my four 992s are all smooth reliable writers.

[crosshatch]

Glad to see you've had a good experience. I hear the Jinhao nibs are getting better recently. I haven't had great luck but never considered it a big deal because swapping nibs is so easy on Jinhaos.

 

I heard a lot of great early feedback about Monteverdes and raving about their nibs, but I've seen many more negative comments lately about nib and ink flow on all their models. Maybe growth is bringing them some quality control challenges.

[bobje]

It sure is difficult to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence, isn't it?

[crosshatch]

It sure is difficult to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence, isn't it?

 

And I've never said otherwise.

 

However, anyone who has been swayed by reviews on, say, Amazon, understands that collected anecdotal evidence isn't necessarily worthless.

[TSherbs]

It sure is difficult to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence, isn't it?

 

the 992 price tag doesnt involve much risk taking. One can find out for oneself regardless of reviews.

[KellyMcJ]

 

I think people are making a big deal of it because the Monza came onto the market sometime *after* the 992 made its appearance. Granted, the same could be said of the Monteverde Impreza (?) and the Baoer 051 (though there's at least evidence of design modification, with the Monteverde sporting a #6 nib vs the Baoer's #5) - but this *looks* like Monteverde / Yafa taking an existing low-end (Chinese) pen, rebranding it, and selling it for a massive mark-up.

 

I don't have strong feelings on this, either way - but I don't entirely blame those who do. I think Monteverde have gotten caught out here, trying to sell a sub-standard product - and if they keep it up, they run the risk of doing damage to their brand.

 

Conklin is doing the same thing (the Conklin Victory is a Baoer something or other).

 

It bothers me, partly because I don't feel like I'm really getting a Conklin pen if I can buy the same thing for a few dollars from Baoer. I don't think it would bother me so much if Conklin wasn't a well respected name with a lot of history behind it. It feels like ruining a great brand.

 

If another brand did it, one with less historical importance, I wouldn't likely care as much as I do, I just wouldn't buy from them.

 

It wouldn't even really bug me if it was a unique pen made in China specifically for the brand- it's just the fact that it's essentially the exact same pen with a different name for 10x the price that gets me.

 

Conklin and Monteverde are both Yafa brands.

[langere]

No wonder I don't buy any Monteverdes or Conklins anymore. But to each his own. My sense is that neither of those brands makes terribly good quality pens, though I do like the plastics they use on some of them.

 

Erick

[jekostas]

 

These points are understandable. But I guess I assumed that Monteverde nibs, which run $20+ USD, are better than Jinhao nibs. I just assumed that, wherever they get them manufactured, the nibs would be better quality than whatever's in the 992.

 

The majority of people who've tested a Monza and 992 side by side have said that the Jinhao nibs are better. I also fall in to this category. Check the thread in the reviews section.

 

Also, while it's possible that a third party (not Jinhao) manufactures both the 992 and Monza, they're clearly coming from the same factory. Same build, identical components (except for the nib), and the same QC issues with body cracking around the barrel plug. The 992 now also comes with a transparent feed and smaller body plug, identical to the Monza.

[JakobS]

One of the constants that I have found in my 10 1/2 years of looking at pen shops is that one should never buy a Monteverde pen full price, because almost every shop that sells them will do so at 20-50% off MSRP regularly, if not almost exclusively!

 

So if one is truly upset with the markup on what many say is a Jinhao 992, but like the pen otherwise, wait a bit and you will find it selling for far less.

 

I don't feel like Monteverde makes pens that are really for writing, not seriously at least. Those pen brands that do have affordable pens for such writing are far too numerous to see Monteverde fill a gap in one's writing needs. Perhaps in the late 90's and early 2000's they had a niche, but I feel that niche is becoming better satisfied with recent additions of either new pens, or the globalization of the marketplace for both new and vintage pens.

Edited December 21, 2017 by JakobS

[crosshatch]

As I said, I'm not particularly interested in Monteverde pens, but I don't see how their practices are all that much different from many other pen companies. And, while I've bought Jinhaos to have cheap pens to fiddle with/to carry as beater pens, I just don't care much for the the Jinhao sense of design. I have no problem taking anyone's word re: the comparative quality of the 992 and the Monza. I was just explaining how the pen would look to someone who wasn't really all that invested in those models.

 

At any rate, my real point was that the claim that the Goulet Monteverde ink deal exists for the purposes of unloading the Monza makes no sense.

[TSherbs]

.... .

 

At any rate, my real point was that the claim that the Goulet Monteverde ink deal exists for the purposes of unloading the Monza makes no sense.

Well, except that this seems to be working out this way.

[crosshatch]

At any rate, my real point was that the claim that the Goulet Monteverde ink deal exists for the purposes of unloading the Monza makes no sense.

 

 

Well, except that this seems to be working out this way.

 

Well, sure--it's only logical that more people are going to gravitate toward the best deal, which is obviously the Monza, as it's the cheapest pen in the offer.

 

But the free Monteverde ink promo also applies to Conklin, Pineider, and Stipula pens. That's an awful lot of free ink given away just to unload the Monza when a sale on Monzas or a Monza-specific special offer would almost certainly be more efficient financially.

 

Not to mention that this same ink promo happened around the holiday season a few years back... maybe 2014? Monzas didn't even exist then.

 

But I didn't think any reasonable person would accuse Brian Goulet of trying to pull a fast one on people by inventing some kind of broad-spectrum ink giveaway just to distract from the fact that the Monza is a substandard pen.

Edited December 21, 2017 by crosshatch

[TSherbs]

 

 

 

Well, sure--it's only logical that more people are going to gravitate toward the best deal, which is obviously the Monza, as it's the cheapest pen in the offer.

 

But the free Monteverde ink promo also applies to Conklin, Pineider, and Stipula pens. That's an awful lot of free ink given away just to unload the Monza when a sale on Monzas or a Monza-specific special offer would almost certainly be more efficient financially.

 

Not to mention that this same ink promo happened around the holiday season a few years back... maybe 2014? Monzas didn't even exist then.

 

But I didn't think any reasonable person would accuse Brian Goulet of trying to pull a fast one on people by inventing some kind of broad-spectrum ink giveaway just to distract from the fact that the Monza is a substandard pen.

 

Do you work for them or are otherwise affiliated/connected?

 

This still isn't a "good deal," because one still has to pay more to get this pen than one has to if you order the 992. The ink does not add to the value of the price for the pen, especially if the pen is still the focus, as you suggest. This is a "deal" only in relation to other products sold at Goulet pens. And I actually consider the Pilot Varsity an even better value.

 

Pay less, get the same pen: the Jinhao 992.

[crosshatch]

 

Do you work for them or are otherwise affiliated/connected?

 

This still isn't a "good deal," because one still has to pay more to get this pen than one has to if you order the 992. The ink does not add to the value of the price for the pen, especially if the pen is still the focus, as you suggest. This is a "deal" only in relation to other products sold at Goulet pens. And I actually consider the Pilot Varsity an even better value.

 

Pay less, get the same pen: the Jinhao 992.

 

I'm just a happy customer. No affiliation. I think it's funny that I'm suspected of being some kind of secret shill just because I point out how illogical the claim is that the ink giveaway was only to fool people into buying the Monza.

 

And I never once said anything about whether or not the deal was a good one or not. Not sure why you're trying to imply that I'm in any way advocating for buying a Monza from Goulet.

 

For me, because I don't need any Monteverde ink and I don't like the Monza (or the 992), this is not an enticing offer.

 

But the Monza is clearly part of a larger ink deal, not the other way around. No reasonable person could deduce even a remotely nefarious purpose to giving away the free ink with select pen purchases--including but absolutely not limited to the Monza, and including pens from 4 other brands.

[TSherbs]

 

I'm just a happy customer. No affiliation. I think it's funny that I'm suspected of being some kind of secret shill just because I point out how illogical the claim is that the ink giveaway was only to fool people into buying the Monza.

 

And I never once said anything about whether or not the deal was a good one or not. Not sure why you're trying to imply that I'm in any way advocating for buying a Monza from Goulet.

 

For me, because I don't need any Monteverde ink and I don't like the Monza (or the 992), this is not an enticing offer.

 

But the Monza is clearly part of a larger ink deal, not the other way around. No reasonable person could deduce even a remotely nefarious purpose to giving away the free ink with select pen purchases--including but absolutely not limited to the Monza, and including pens from 4 other brands.

Who called it nefarious? You insist on logic, but then you defend the Goulets against charges not made. I don't get you. But whatever. This thread is about the 992 and the Monza. I like the 992. It is a great deal, a better deal than even the Monza with ink. As a package, the Monza is attractive, but then you are still having to spend more. I'd rather buy four more 992s.

[jekostas]

 

 

But I didn't think any reasonable person would accuse Brian Goulet of trying to pull a fast one on people by inventing some kind of broad-spectrum ink giveaway just to distract from the fact that the Monza is a substandard pen.

 

I strongly disagree, and there's evidence to support my assertion.

 

This is the page for the ink promotion on Goulet Pens: https://www.gouletpens.com/monteverde-ink-promo/c/695/?sortBy=price%2Basc

 

If you look through that page, two things become immediately obvious:

 

1. The Monza is by far the cheapest pen included in the promotion at $16. The next cheapest pen is the Conklin Minigraph, at $40.

2. The Conklin Minigraph does not include a full bottle of ink, only a 12 pack of cartridges.. The Monza does include a full 90ml bottle of ink despite being less than half the price.

 

Given those two facts, what would a "reasonable person" conclude?

Edited December 22, 2017 by jekostas