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Help: Recommendation For Buying A Japanese Pen



flummoxed

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Hello,

 

One of my acquaintances will be in Japan in the next couple of months and has very kindly offered to bring back a small package for me. As part of this package, I was looking to buy a Japanese FP that is challenging to get in India. We either have to buy it from online sources) from Japan (Engeika, Rakuten, direct seller, etc.) or ship it from US/UK or buy it at a premium in India. In all three cases, we end up paying customs duty and/or shipping costs which make the pens anywhere between 10%-30% more expensive. I thought this would be a good opportunity to buy a pen from Japan for myself. I've listed the criteria below and would appreciate any suggestions:

  1. Budget: USD 100 to USD 200
  2. Nib: EF, UEF (or thinner) or one of the special nibs (Fude, etc.) as I do own other kinds of nibs. I draw occasionally (I've posted a few at https://www.instagram.com/flumm0x3d/) and would love the finer nibs to learn and practice the lithograph style better.
  3. Material: I have a preference for wood, ebonite and other forms of rubber and have only 2-3 pens (out of a little over 30) which are made from celluloid, acrylic, plastic or resin. I do understand that it might be a challenge to
  4. Filling system: Any!
  5. Maintenance: None to High. I use all my pens, being careful with them and have so far had no breakages, cracks or bent nibs. I have never bought one as a showpiece so far and am not judging anyone who does so.

While there seem to be a lot of options in the budget range I have mentioned, I am unsure about them as the material does play a very important role for me to decide (As an example, though I have bought nibs from Franklin Christoph in the past, I am waiting for them to make a pen in these materials before I buy). However, I do understand that handmade (or otherwise) Japanese pens in these materials tend to cost much higher. The order of preference will be budget, nib and then material, as an example if there is a superior nib in the given budget range that you think is definitely worth a go, I am willing to buy only the nib unit and then get a custom body built around it in wood/ebonite in India.

 

Any and all suggestions for pens or better ways to do this are welcome.

 

Thank you!

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mongrelnomad

Literally anything in your price range will be a nib with a pen attached (probably black, or similar, acrylic). That said, you can't go wrong with any of the big three; each person will have their preference, but it is very personal.

Too many pens; too little writing.

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I second mongrelnomad, and also add that it will be difficult to find nib units sold separately anyway.

 

My recommendation would be a Platinum #3776 Century (PNB-10000). They are generally widely available, making it easier for your acquaintance to find. Priced at 10,000 yen full retail, they also meet your budget requirement. I think I picked one up for 7,000 yen at Takeya General Store, so discounts can be found but full price is also quite reasonable IMO. They also come in UEF and EF, meeting your nib requirement.

 

These pens are plastic, so won't fulfill your wood/ebonite requirement, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything new in either of those materials for less than $300 and up.

 

As mongrelnomad mentioned, it is very personal. You'll notice I've not mentioned Sailor (which I don't use) or Pilot (no experience with their pens in this price range) so my recommendation is limited in scope but I think this model is one worth you checking out.

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I second mongrelnomad, and also add that it will be difficult to find nib units sold separately anyway.

 

My recommendation would be a Platinum #3776 Century (PNB-10000). They are generally widely available, making it easier for your acquaintance to find. Priced at 10,000 yen full retail, they also meet your budget requirement. I think I picked one up for 7,000 yen at Takeya General Store, so discounts can be found but full price is also quite reasonable IMO. They also come in UEF and EF, meeting your nib requirement.

 

These pens are plastic, so won't fulfill your wood/ebonite requirement, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything new in either of those materials for less than $300 and up.

 

As mongrelnomad mentioned, it is very personal. You'll notice I've not mentioned Sailor (which I don't use) or Pilot (no experience with their pens in this price range) so my recommendation is limited in scope but I think this model is one worth you checking out.

 

Thank you, the Platinum Century #3776 seems to be the only pen that I haven't read any poor reviews about. The Falcon vs FA issues seem to be documented well here and I'm unsure about the performance of Sailor's Naginata series.

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Save some more money and get a Pilot Custom 823. It blows all other pens away!!!!

The wood and the ebonite are out of your price range. A Briarwood Platinum Century would fit in your price range. Although Platinum Centuries are great pens, especially because you can get them on the grey market for $70 bucks from Amazin, they still don't compare to the Custom 823!

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mongrelnomad

I would really just advise to buy any Sailor, Pilot or Platinum in your price range that you like the look of most. There is little, if anything, between them in quality, and nobody will be able to tell you which nib you will prefer until you've tried them all.

Too many pens; too little writing.

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Literally anything in your price range will be a nib with a pen attached (probably black, or similar, acrylic). That said, you can't go wrong with any of the big three; each person will have their preference, but it is very personal.

+1

 

It is not easy to get a nib unit only form a Japanese pen maker. In theory, it is impossible. For those pen makers that do use nibs from one or more of the big three, I am told they must buy the whole pen.

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Hello,

 

One of my acquaintances will be in Japan in the next couple of months and has very kindly offered to bring back a small package for me. As part of this package, I was looking to buy a Japanese FP that is challenging to get in India. We either have to buy it from online sources) from Japan (Engeika, Rakuten, direct seller, etc.) or ship it from US/UK or buy it at a premium in India. In all three cases, we end up paying customs duty and/or shipping costs which make the pens anywhere between 10%-30% more expensive. I thought this would be a good opportunity to buy a pen from Japan for myself. I've listed the criteria below and would appreciate any suggestions:

  1. Budget: USD 100 to USD 200
  2. Nib: EF, UEF (or thinner) or one of the special nibs (Fude, etc.) as I do own other kinds of nibs. I draw occasionally (I've posted a few at https://www.instagram.com/flumm0x3d/) and would love the finer nibs to learn and practice the lithograph style better.
  3. Material: I have a preference for wood, ebonite and other forms of rubber and have only 2-3 pens (out of a little over 30) which are made from celluloid, acrylic, plastic or resin. I do understand that it might be a challenge to
  4. Filling system: Any!
  5. Maintenance: None to High. I use all my pens, being careful with them and have so far had no breakages, cracks or bent nibs. I have never bought one as a showpiece so far and am not judging anyone who does so.

While there seem to be a lot of options in the budget range I have mentioned, I am unsure about them as the material does play a very important role for me to decide (As an example, though I have bought nibs from Franklin Christoph in the past, I am waiting for them to make a pen in these materials before I buy). However, I do understand that handmade (or otherwise) Japanese pens in these materials tend to cost much higher. The order of preference will be budget, nib and then material, as an example if there is a superior nib in the given budget range that you think is definitely worth a go, I am willing to buy only the nib unit and then get a custom body built around it in wood/ebonite in India.

 

Any and all suggestions for pens or better ways to do this are welcome.

 

Thank you!

Try the Sailor wood range for around $200, but you need to buy direct from Japan, and they're only available in fine or medium.

I consider Sailor to be the best, especially in the EF range.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, the Platinum Century #3776 seems to be the only pen that I haven't read any poor reviews about. The Falcon vs FA issues seem to be documented well here and I'm unsure about the performance of Sailor's Naginata series.

The 3776 has plenty of poor reviews, even though the pen is superb value for money compared with the competition. Their pens are good but both of mine had issues out of the box. The amount of feedback on them can be bothersome for many. You may have also missed the ones of the blotchy marks in the plastic for the chartres blue and bougogne. And their converters are prone to seizing up.

Edited by Bluey
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mongrelnomad

Try the Sailor wood range for around $200, but you need to buy direct from Japan, and they're only available in fine or medium.

I consider Sailor to be the best, especially in the EF range.

 

 

 

 

 

The 3776 has plenty of poor reviews, even though the pen is superb value for money compared with the competition. Their pens are good but both of mine had issues out of the box. The amount of feedback on them can be bothersome for many. You may have also missed the ones of the blotchy marks in the plastic for the chartres blue and bougogne. And their converters are prone to seizing up.

 

 

You see, I've never had a single problem with a Platinum 3776 (celluloid aside), and I have about 6. Their converters are as reliable as Sailor's (as in: they will fail, but they're cheap and cheerful to replace), and I find their nibs to have less feedback than Sailor, and to be more predictable (although I do have a soft-spot for Sailor's 14k nibs).

Edited by mongrelnomad

Too many pens; too little writing.

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There are a few ways questions are asked here. The ones I can answer best are ones where I have more experience around. However this question is REALLY about what you like, and I really don't know how to answer this question. Having said that you DID give us parameters, which is much better than what others have done in the past, who would blurt out " I have a friend going to Tokyo. What should I ask the person to buy?"

 

So here's my strategy, and hopefully it be useful to you. Before I go to a place like Tokyo, I usually check out ALL the pen makers website. This gives me a great impressions of what's available and what type of money I should be spending. This way, I don't spend HOURS at the store, and have clear decisions on what to buy when I get to the store. This will also help your friend tremendously if they are not pen people, which I suspect they are not if you're asking this community. You can literally spend 1 week just going through all the pen stores in Tokyo and stare and try all their stock. I have spent an entire day in Itoya just looking through their inventory and trying all the pens.

 

Try to understand at least what are the ones you want to focus on, and then you can get better feedback on which is the right choice. So here are some tools in the hopes that it will help you. I suspect none of us have a full grasp on what's available in Japan because many of us are not, and the choices in Japan is vast.

 

This is Sailors fountain pen site. http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaojdph3

This is the Platinum pen website http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountain_top.html

This is Pilot's fountain pen site. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/

 

You can get this Fude pen for under 10USD http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen/11-0127

This Sabi Togi has a super ultra fine nib but it's just over 200 USD http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen/10-2222

You can get Pilot's Maple pen for just under 200US. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/kaede/

But it does not have a special nib.

You can get Pilot's Custom 74 for just under 100 US with an EF nib but it has a very archetypal traditional fountain pen type body http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom74/

Many have mentioned the Platinum Chartre Blue which is SUPER cheap in Japan and a wonderful pen. It's just under 100 USD. http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountainpen_century_chartreblue.html

 

Someone has already stated, if you have 100-200 USD to spend you have to be realistic. Any exotic material pen is out of reach to you. However you can still have access to unique nibs that are available in the Japanese market. But the pen bodies are likely plastic and not as inspired in design. Platinum has a BEAUTIFUL 3776 celluloid model that's priced just under USD 300. If you can stretch your budget to accommodate this is an awesome buy because these pens are awesome. You might even persuade the pen store to switch the nib to a Platinum EF or UEF. Most wood pens are between 300-500USD so it might be too much of a stretch for you.

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You see, I've never had a single problem with a Platinum 3776 (celluloid aside), and I have about 6. Their cartridges are as reliable as Sailor's (as in: they will fail, but they're cheap and cheerful to replace), and I find their nibs to have less feedback than Sailor, and to be more predictable (although I do have a soft-spot for Sailor's 14k nibs).

Converters, not carts.

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mongrelnomad

Converters, not carts.

 

Sorry, I meant converters (edited in the post above).

Edited by mongrelnomad

Too many pens; too little writing.

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Pilot Custom Maple

Price - within budget at about $150-$180 - check

Nib - available with F - you need to see if you want a Japanese EF or European EF.

Material - wood - check

 

More importantly, you need to zero down on where you want to buy it from and whether they have it or not. Itoya Ginza should be a good option (no discount) or the general stores mentioned above.

But if you are sending your friend to look for it, you have to give him precise instructions and make sure that the place he is going to has it for him to buy. A person in the hobby may not mind coming back empty handed from the store, but someone who isn't in the hobby, it's just a wild goose chase for him.

 

Or give him a list of 5-6 pens in order of preference. I think he'll be able to find most of them.

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First up, thanks to everyone who replied, this is indeed helpful.

 

I was surprised by the responses and did go back to read my original post and I did very clearly mention that I do understand that Japanese pens in wood and ebonite are out of my budget range (and the preference order being budget, nib, and only then is it material). Also, I did look at this rather detailed thread before posting: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/232441-sailor-1911-mid-sized-vs-pilot-custom-74-vs-platinum-3776-vs-pilot-vanishing-point/

 

 

Save some more money and get a Pilot Custom 823. It blows all other pens away!!!!

The wood and the ebonite are out of your price range. A Briarwood Platinum Century would fit in your price range. Although Platinum Centuries are great pens, especially because you can get them on the grey market for $70 bucks from Amazin, they still don't compare to the Custom 823!

 

That is a very tempting possibility but one lesson I must admit to having learned the hard way is to resist stretching the budget.

 

this or that else you will have to save up some more to get something like a Hakase, Ohashido, Eboya, Hirai Mokkou hikimono shou
Oniishi Seisakushou seems to be in your price range

 

Oniishi Seisakushou seems like an interesting possibility, I was able to find a few acrylics on Rakuten a while ago.

 

+1

It is not easy to get a nib unit only form a Japanese pen maker. In theory, it is impossible. For those pen makers that do use nibs from one or more of the big three, I am told they must buy the whole pen.

 

I didn't know that, thanks for letting me know. This does make it harder for me because of my rather small budget, but at least reduces the complications.

 

Try the Sailor wood range for around $200, but you need to buy direct from Japan, and they're only available in fine or medium.

I consider Sailor to be the best, especially in the EF range.

 

 

 

 

 


The 3776 has plenty of poor reviews, even though the pen is superb value for money compared with the competition. Their pens are good but both of mine had issues out of the box. The amount of feedback on them can be bothersome for many. You may have also missed the ones of the blotchy marks in the plastic for the chartres blue and bougogne. And their converters are prone to seizing up.

 

Sad to hear about your 3776 having issues out of the box! I'll take a look at the Sailor wood range.

 

There are a few ways questions are asked here. The ones I can answer best are ones where I have more experience around. However this question is REALLY about what you like, and I really don't know how to answer this question. Having said that you DID give us parameters, which is much better than what others have done in the past, who would blurt out " I have a friend going to Tokyo. What should I ask the person to buy?"

 

So here's my strategy, and hopefully it be useful to you. Before I go to a place like Tokyo, I usually check out ALL the pen makers website. This gives me a great impressions of what's available and what type of money I should be spending. This way, I don't spend HOURS at the store, and have clear decisions on what to buy when I get to the store. This will also help your friend tremendously if they are not pen people, which I suspect they are not if you're asking this community. You can literally spend 1 week just going through all the pen stores in Tokyo and stare and try all their stock. I have spent an entire day in Itoya just looking through their inventory and trying all the pens.

 

Try to understand at least what are the ones you want to focus on, and then you can get better feedback on which is the right choice. So here are some tools in the hopes that it will help you. I suspect none of us have a full grasp on what's available in Japan because many of us are not, and the choices in Japan is vast.

 

This is Sailors fountain pen site. http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaojdph3

This is the Platinum pen website http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountain_top.html

This is Pilot's fountain pen site. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/

 

You can get this Fude pen for under 10USD http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen/11-0127

This Sabi Togi has a super ultra fine nib but it's just over 200 USD http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen/10-2222

You can get Pilot's Maple pen for just under 200US. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/kaede/

But it does not have a special nib.

You can get Pilot's Custom 74 for just under 100 US with an EF nib but it has a very archetypal traditional fountain pen type body http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom74/

Many have mentioned the Platinum Chartre Blue which is SUPER cheap in Japan and a wonderful pen. It's just under 100 USD. http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountainpen_century_chartreblue.html

 

Someone has already stated, if you have 100-200 USD to spend you have to be realistic. Any exotic material pen is out of reach to you. However you can still have access to unique nibs that are available in the Japanese market. But the pen bodies are likely plastic and not as inspired in design. Platinum has a BEAUTIFUL 3776 celluloid model that's priced just under USD 300. If you can stretch your budget to accommodate this is an awesome buy because these pens are awesome. You might even persuade the pen store to switch the nib to a Platinum EF or UEF. Most wood pens are between 300-500USD so it might be too much of a stretch for you.

 

That is exhaustive, before I posted the question here, my set of candidate pens were as follows,

  1. Sailor 1911 Mid-Size
  2. Pilot Falcon Resin
  3. Pilot Vanishing Point
  4. Platinum Century
  5. Platinum #3776

This was largely based on the availability of the EF/UEF nib possibility. I looked up a few other posts on FPN and then decided that maybe it would be best to stay away from Falcon and FA for a first Japanese pen. As I've mentioned earlier, I do understand that materials such as ebonite and wood become exotic in the Japanese hand made pen world and the pen material is, therefore, the last preference for this purchase.

 

As you mentioned, buying a pen boils down eventually to an individual's preference and therefore I posted my preferences. I had hoped to hear from other users as this would help me find the most suitable fit for my needs. The idea was to create an ordered list of 3 pens for my acquaintance (you are right, he is not a pen enthusiast) to pickup at the store.

 

I'll check around online if there is a good deal at some place for the Sabi Togi.

 

Pilot Custom Maple
Price - within budget at about $150-$180 - check
Nib - available with F - you need to see if you want a Japanese EF or European EF.
Material - wood - check

More importantly, you need to zero down on where you want to buy it from and whether they have it or not. Itoya Ginza should be a good option (no discount) or the general stores mentioned above.
But if you are sending your friend to look for it, you have to give him precise instructions and make sure that the place he is going to has it for him to buy. A person in the hobby may not mind coming back empty handed from the store, but someone who isn't in the hobby, it's just a wild goose chase for him.

Or give him a list of 5-6 pens in order of preference. I think he'll be able to find most of them.

 

I hadn't thought about the Pilot Custom Maple as it seemed to only have a possibility of an 'F' nib. I'll check if there is one in EF. Yes, I would prefer a Japanese EF and I was using this http://estilofilos.blogspot.in/p/tokyo-pen-shops.html as a reference for possible shops to visit for my acquaintance. This post (https://flexandotherfollies.wordpress.com/2017/02/17/pilot-custom-kaede-modified/) seems to suggest the possibility of the pen in an FA nib.

 

------

 

As it stands now, the revised list of pens of interest (in no particular order) are as follows,

  1. Pilot Custom Maple (in case EF is available)
  2. Sailor Sabi Togi (if it is closer to USD 200)
  3. Vanishing Point
  4. Platinum Century 3776
Edited by flummoxed
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always remember to check the websites of the big 3 they have listed their yen prices so you can expect as much thats how much they will go for in Japan

http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/

http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountain_top.html

http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen

for other Japanese brands the one I know resides in Osaka so shipping time will be your clinching point

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0274.html (Helico)

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0214.html (Onishi Seisakushou)

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0195.html (Hirai Mukkou Hikimono shou)

Edited by Algester
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@flummoxed, so little imagination! Did you go review the different websites? Did you memorize the specs in each of the pages? You should choose pens that are only available in Japan. The ones you selected, you could get anywhere in the world. There is so much to choose from when you Japan. Also don't underestimate those cheaper pens that are in the 2000 yen and under category, like the Pilot Petites or the Preppies.

 

In your price range, I would definitely go for something like the Custom Heritage 912 with a PO nib. Super fine nib with a unique design that curves down, designed for writing on poor quality paper. It comes just under 200 USD. Any of the special nibs also like the SF is also nice. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom_heritage912/

If you don't like this more modern design, you can go also for the more traditional looking Custom 742. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom742/

Look at the list of nib options. Makes your mouth water!!!

 

If you want to stretch your budget and get 2 pens instead of one, get the Custom 74 and also the Customer 91. They are both around 100 USD each and have a WIDE range of nibs available. There are SO many other pens in Pilots lower end range like the Custom 98, Elite 92 that all have EFs. Take the time to pour through each pen spec and see what's unique. Use Google translate. It's your friend.

Edited by gerigo
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always remember to check the websites of the big 3 they have listed their yen prices so you can expect as much thats how much they will go for in Japan

http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/

http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/fountain_top.html

http://www.sailor.co.jp/lineup/fountainpen

for other Japanese brands the one I know resides in Osaka so shipping time will be your clinching point

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0274.html (Helico)

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0214.html (Onishi Seisakushou)

https://www.pen-house.net/brand/brand0195.html (Hirai Mukkou Hikimono shou)

 

@Alegester, Thank you! The Hirai pens (in the third link) seem to be wonderful. They fit the material and the fact that they are a Japanese maker, as I am also partial to handmade pens, this seems to be a wonderful option. The following seem to be the ones that are made from Japanese trees,

  1. https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pen-house.net/detail/detail16942_009.html&usg=ALkJrhiA1RgcH2Cb7oJDOHh3ZtWNCBOu-g
  2. https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pen-house.net/detail/detail20773_021.html&usg=ALkJrhhlJ6nFtB2xNbV7dyVImHN2hGcEMQ
  3. https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pen-house.net/detail/detail15685_021.html&usg=ALkJrhg0UpTuxASw9Jj5rpWe-dxCematQg

They use Schmidt nibs which means my options are either to check with them if they use #6 ones so that I can use other nibs I have or I have to give up on the nib priority.

 

 

@flummoxed, so little imagination! Did you go review the different websites? Did you memorize the specs in each of the pages? You should choose pens that are only available in Japan. The ones you selected, you could get anywhere in the world. There is so much to choose from when you Japan. Also don't underestimate those cheaper pens that are in the 2000 yen and under category, like the Pilot Petites or the Preppies.

 

In your price range, I would definitely go for something like the Custom Heritage 912 with a PO nib. Super fine nib with a unique design that curves down, designed for writing on poor quality paper. It comes just under 200 USD. Any of the special nibs also like the SF is also nice. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom_heritage912/

If you don't like this more modern design, you can go also for the more traditional looking Custom 742. http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/custom742/

Look at the list of nib options. Makes your mouth water!!!

 

If you want to stretch your budget and get 2 pens instead of one, get the Custom 74 and also the Customer 91. They are both around 100 USD each and have a WIDE range of nibs available. There are SO many other pens in Pilots lower end range like the Custom 98, Elite 92 that all have EFs. Take the time to pour through each pen spec and see what's unique. Use Google translate. It's your friend.

 

@gerigo, Ha! Yes, maybe memorizing specs would be a good idea for some ;-).

 

While the plan is to buy something that is available only in Japan, I wouldn't mind buying something that is easily available in other places as long as the price differential for me is substantial. As I mentioned in the first post, shipping in pens or buying Japanese pens in India often adds 10% to 30% (at the bare minimum, if I'm very lucky and do not have issues with shipping and customs) above the price paid for the pen. Also, as I will not be in Japan myself but will be relying on an acquaintance who does not know much about fountain pens, I need to be able to provide a priority list or negotiate with the seller to ship/post the pens to my acquaintance in Tokyo.

 

The two options you have mentioned,

  1. Pilot Custom Heritage 912: I like the silver coloured trims on this pen and do not like the body shape.
  2. Pilot Custom 742: I love the shape of the body on this one, though not a fan of the gold coloured trims.

--------

 

And the new updates list of pens in preference/priority,

 

  1. Pilot Custom Maple (in case EF is available)
  2. Sailor Sabi Togi (if it is closer to USD 200)
  3. Pilot Custom 742
  4. Hirai Wooden pens (Pending e-mail conversation)
  5. Vanishing Point
  6. Platinum Century 3776
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