Jump to content
Classifieds is broken, please do not submit any new ads ×

How To Remove Section From Swan Leverless



Recommended Posts

old-scribbler

My wife has dug out an old Swan Leverless which she says belonged to her grandmother. It has not been used for many decades. I'd like to know hold old it might be, and what model number.

 

post-135710-0-11800900-1492220526_thumb.jpg

The barrel is stamped with a swan logo surrounded by this text:
SWAN LEVERLESS PEN
MABIE TODD & CO LTD
MADE IN ENGLAND
TRADE MARK
PAT. APP. FOR
The clip also bears a swan logo.
The section is stamped with:
SWAN
The nib is engraved with:
"SWAN"
4
14 CT
MABIE TODD & CO LTD

The section is loose in rotation, maybe an eight of a turn. The filler cap also rotates, perhaps a third of a turn, but does not appear to suck up any ink.

I want to take it apart for inspection and cleaning, and probable replacement of sac. I've tried warming it up with a hair drier and pulling firmly, but it won't budge. Can anyone confirm that it is definitely a push fit, and suggest why it might turn but not pull out?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 14
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • old-scribbler

    3

  • PaulS

    3

  • RayCornett

    3

  • como

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

The section is press fit. Not threaded. So not screwed. A little soak and dry heat would do the trick. For resacking Swan leverless, you may watch this video.

 

 

Khan M. Ilyas

Link to post
Share on other sites
old-scribbler

Hmmm ... interesting!

Soaking and heating didn't help, so I tried a soak in hot water. Found that the section would turn a little more, so persevered until it turned enough to show a gap, which went away if I turned it back again. Encouraged, I worked it back and forth until eventually it unscrewed completely.

post-135710-0-25914700-1492306856_thumb.jpg

The sac was well perished and disintegrated, so it may have been a piece of that which was impeding the turning of the section.

Anyway, now I have it all apart, and assuming I can get hold of a new sac I'll be able to repair it (thanks for the helpful video) Except: the operating lever came out along with the remains of the sac, and I cannot see how to reattach it; it may be broken, or it may fit into a notch in the filler cap, which now unscrews part way as shown in the picture. Grateful for hints ...

The pen in the video is described as a model 4240, I assume mine is definitely not that; I'd still like to know what model and age it is, if anyone has any clues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I could be wrong, but I'd suggest that what you have is NOT a M.T. Leverless, but a M.T. Button Bar pen - apparently it's quite easy to confuse them with the earlier leverless models. Your bar is a pressure bar, as in b.f. pens, and not a rotating bar as in leverless. In my opinion this is the rarer of the two types of pen, and probably more desirable. :)

Edited by PaulS
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the leverless would have a press fit section. Not a threaded one like the one on OP's pen is.

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

Link to post
Share on other sites

the more obvious feature on the later pen is the aluminium threading on the button, which I'm sure none of the leverless have. Whether this button bar is any more efficient that the earlier pen I've no idea as I don't have an example of a b.b. Hindsight is a marvellous thing and gives 20/20 vision, and easy to be critical of something designed 80 - 90 years ago, but I really can't love the leverless........... possibly because I've been trying to glue a bar back onto a cam, and can't get it to stick. I also get confused with l.h. threads :D

Edited by PaulS
Link to post
Share on other sites

In view of the U.K. interest in Swan/M.T., I had a look at Deborah Gibson's 'Goodwriterspens' blog, hoping to see some coverage of this b.b. pen., somewhere in the lady's very substantial output covering Swan/leverless pens.

Apart from a single entry with a few words on a long blind cap example from c. 1950, there was nothing there to help with these b.b. pens, suggesting this particular filling method may not have had a very long production run, or possibly is a model avoided.

The advice seems to be that provided the button mechanism works and doesn't need replacement, then servicing is fairly straightforward although sac renewal can apparently be a little tedious.

The real problems start when buttons need replacement, and Marshall & Oldfield comment ......... "and it is almost essential to make a set of special tools".

 

This is where their Pen Repair manual will help, if you have access to a copy. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
old-scribbler

Thanks for all the hints, everyone. Further search turned up this:
http://www.vintagepens.com/Swan_leverless.shtml
which has a cut-away picture at the bottom of the page that looks exactly like the inside of my pen. This dates it to the early or mid 1950s (so it's nearly as old as I am).

I now see how it fits together, and the mechanism shows all signs of working too, so I just need to get myself a new sac. I suspect that the size is not so critical as for the original 'twisty' leverless mechanism, which may make it easier, but finding one in New Zealand will be a challenge. The prices for shipping small items from the USA are outrageous ... :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...

This gets confusing. My what I thought to be a 4660 has a threaded section, no model number, has a flat groove on the threads to hold a button filler type bar but I have been told it should take an entangling bar. Anyone know what's up?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please be aware that there are really two types of Mabie Todd "Leverless", one of which uses a normal pressure bar seen in button fillers, while the other uses a twist mechanism. The pressure bar type (yours) uses a normal sac, and the twist mechanism uses a necked sac. See pages from Pen Repair by Jim Marshall and Laurence Oldfield. You knock out (or pull out) the nib and feed, then replace the sac. Only after you install the pressure bar and use a dowel to make sure that the sac is not twisted during pressure bar installation, you'd be safe to set the nib and feed back into section. I've had a 4230 (grey plastic, with pressure bar) and a 4350 (maroon, with twist mechanism). From outside you can't see if it's a pressure bar type or twist thing. Very nice classic pens with wonderful nibs.

post-145678-0-15801700-1567896051_thumb.jpg

post-145678-0-18175600-1567896063_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please be aware that there are really two types of Mabie Todd "Leverless", one of which uses a normal pressure bar seen in button fillers, while the other uses a twist mechanism. The pressure bar type (yours) uses a normal sac, and the twist mechanism uses a necked sac. See pages from Pen Repair by Jim Marshall and Laurence Oldfield. You knock out (or pull out) the nib and feed, then replace the sac. Only after you install the pressure bar and use a dowel to make sure that the sac is not twisted during pressure bar installation, you'd be safe to set the nib and feed back into section. I've had a 4230 (grey plastic, with pressure bar) and a 4350 (maroon, with twist mechanism). From outside you can't see if it's a pressure bar type or twist thing. Very nice classic pens with wonderful nibs.

I just found out about that book today. I do need to get it. Here is a horrible picture of my pen minus the nibpost-125250-0-25024900-1567897846_thumb.jpg.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As you can see in the book and also in Grandmia's video, it's an uncomplicated procedure. You just need the normal sac, not a necked one as shown in Grandmia's video as yours is a pressure bar type, not a twisting spatula inside. Unlike what's shown in the book, Mabie Todd also made the twisting spatula type of Leverless with the cone shaped twisting knob, which is why the only way you would know the type is to open the section. I would guess that your model number is a 4250 (looks maroon to me). The model number should be near the twisting knob.

I just found out about that book today. I do need to get it. Here is a horrible picture of my pen minus the nibattachicon.gif 2019-09-07 15.45.24.jpg.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As you can see in the book and also in Grandmia's video, it's an uncomplicated procedure. You just need the normal sac, not a necked one as shown in Grandmia's video as yours is a pressure bar type, not a twisting spatula inside. Unlike what's shown in the book, Mabie Todd also made the twisting spatula type of Leverless with the cone shaped twisting knob, which is why the only way you would know the type is to open the section. I would guess that your model number is a 4250 (looks maroon to me). The model number should be near the twisting knob.

There's no model number anywhere but it is definitely black. The Grandmia video mentions a specific length to the button filler bar he used but I don't know which pen he is working on to know if it is the right size for mine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So far the Mabie Todd Leverless model pens with cone-shaped turning knob are all the same size, around 13,2cm long capped, regardless if they are with pressure bar or the twisting spatula type, from what I've seen. Model numbers are in the 42x0 format, x being the color code. If you do some search online, you will find instructions of how to determine the pressure bar length that you need and how to fit a pressure bar. Good luck!

There's no model number anywhere but it is definitely black. The Grandmia video mentions a specific length to the button filler bar he used but I don't know which pen he is working on to know if it is the right size for mine

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      37512
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      30275
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. jar
      jar
      26101
    5. wimg
      wimg
      25570
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • A Smug Dill
      Even so, you'd end up with a fragmented list, and it becomes an O(N²) process for each prospective requestor to check what is available: effectively recreate the list of currently active servers (without any reliable up-to-date info upfront about the inks and number of samples on offer in the thread) from the sequential list of posts, which may be spread over two or even more pages, and then query each server independently to check what is currently on offer.   It comes down to not hav
    • LizEF
      If one wanted to do this, one could just use the "About Me" field which appears to be unlimited in size.  And if a bunch of people wanted to cooperate, the Member Title field (or signature) could be used to this end - "Ink Giver" (or some such) could be used by those with inks to give...  No software edits required.
    • Arkanabar
      I suppose the update issue could be mitigated.  One would post a link in signature, to the particular part of your profile where you list the inks that you're willing to post samples to others, gratis.  But looking at profiles, I suspect that would require an edit to the board's software, potentially a nontrivial task.
    • A Smug Dill
      I read your idea as getting willing givers to publicly register as members of a set of heterogenous servers, in a system in which a client would explicitly select an available server from a list, to which he/she will then send a request privately and asynchronously. Request handling in the system is unmanaged, and individual requests are handled by the targeted servers completely independently on each other. I think the model is fine, although there are some operational concerns you may want to
    • Daneaxe
      First thought on the method/system of ink sharing: Think the best way, to begin with, is to follow the way of the US thread: offer up a (small) list of inks you are willing to PIF, to whoever expresses interest. Write clearly in the "mission statement" how it works, with a tiny "quid pro quo" that even a struggling student can comply with, i.e. post your opinion and a writing sample, with option of a full review if desired.   So yours truly might say: "I'm offering up samples of D
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Expiring Soon

    • By benbot517
      51 years and 5 months
    • By benbot517
      51 years and 5 months
    • By benbot517
      51 years and 5 months
    • By Okami
      51 years and 5 months
    • By Okami
      51 years and 5 months
  • Random Adverts

    • By A-xy
      51 years and 5 months
    • By Collezionista
      EXPIRED
    • By chumpowie
      51 years and 5 months
    • By Carguy
      51 years and 5 months
    • By achao613
      51 years and 5 months
  • Files

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. DanaLynn
      DanaLynn
      (35 years old)
    2. gutmand
      gutmand
      (66 years old)
    3. gwenkelly
      gwenkelly
    4. haizrul
      haizrul
      (44 years old)
    5. HanhPhuc
      HanhPhuc





×
×
  • Create New...