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D. F. Foley Dip Pen


m2squad120th

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A good friend of mine just gave me a dip pen. The nib says "D. F. Foley & Company New York No2" I know absolutely noting about dip pens. Is it worth anything? How should I clean it? How do I get all the gunky old ink out of the "section"?

 

Just curious. I have tried it and the nib could use some adjustment and it's a flex that writes well. I just don't know how to proceed with it.

 

Thanks to all!!

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Pictures may help. The nib comes out and i am worried that there is supposed to be some cork or something that is supposed to hold it in so i am not crazy about cleaning it until I know more about it.

post-123973-0-85909900-1489090459_thumb.jpg

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Close the plunger in the bathroom sink. Clean the nib there and dry it off.

It goes right back where you took it out of....the metal ears.

 

Normally dip pen nibs are not gold, though they can be.

Is yours gold?

If so it is tipped with real iridium***....called diamond tipping from the '1870-80's to 1900's.

If it is steel, oil it after use...then clean the oil off before use. Otherwise it will rust. Back in the day, you often bought a little box of 1/4th of a gross, or 36 nibs at a time.

One either licked the nib to clean the oil or hit it with a match,...today with a Bic lighter for one or two seconds..

 

***Real iridium was hard to mine, at the time the mines were in Italy, where the iridium was mined from the 1" layer of earth from the asteroid that helped kill off the dinosaurs.

Later in the 'teens-20-30's it was cheaper and more effective to mine other rare earths and make melt compounds for nib tipping.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Not real sure if it's gold but it is soft and I have seen no rust so far. Is there any way to get the "crusty stuff" out of the holder? I am assuming that it is supposed to be hollow with no buildup inside?

Normally dip pen nibs are not gold, though they can be.

Is yours gold?

 

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This is all I was able to find online about the manufacturer so i guess it's safe to assume it's gold?

post-123973-0-14025900-1489097594.jpg

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The real old nibs are not marked 10-14 or 16K like the stuff from 1902.

 

Don't go smoothing the nib much....and if so very, very lightly....in back in the beginning the iridium or 'iridium compounds' were very lumpy and chunks could fall out.

Use only the smooth section of the nail buffer and not a lot, you are not going to get it to be 'butter smooth'.....good and smooth is a lot....just enough to get rid of drag.

 

Toothy is ok....toothy is like writing with a pencil.

 

Back when a carpenter got $3.00 for a twelve hour day, 1894-5 Montgomery Ward Catalog.

14 K nibs were

#1 $.065,

#2,$0,75,

#3, $0.82,

#4,$1.05,

#5, $1.18

#6,$1.55

#7 $1.85

 

 

If it's gold, getting a new tipping costs @ $85.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Yes, Foley made gold pens (what they called nibs. Pens when in holders, now the whole thing is called a pen)

 

Just clean it with water and gentle, non-abrasive wiping. Gold is soft, after all.

 

As Bo Bo pointed out, these were luxury goods in their day. The gold wasn't rusted or corroded by the harsh inks. A pen like this would have sat on your desk in a pen holder and most likely have been used by an elegant lady to write her correspondence.

 

Bo Bo was right about another thing, make sure you don't touch the underside of the nib down where the ink should go. If you do, clean carefully. Oils on your hands can cause the ink to either not flow to the tip or make the ink all come off in blobs. (that can also happen if your ink is too "wet" as most fountain pen ink is)

 

One thing that Bo Bo said that I would disagree with is his treatment for steel pens. When you're getting ready to use a new or vintage pen for the first time, you do need to prep it to take the outer coating off that protected it from rust. This acts like your skin oils I mentioned above. In the old days, yes, mostly students would suck on the nibs as an expedient means of prepping them. This both removed the outer coating and the proteins in spit will actually do a pretty good job of allowing the ink to flow. (so I've read from someone who's both a master penman and dentist) Personally, ever since I researched some of the things they used to use for coatings, I don't let them anywhere near my mouth. (arsenic, mercury, beryllium...) Some will scrub with soap and water, the dentist recommends toothpaste, some use alcohol (which works when the coating is shellac, as it often was in the vintage pens, but doesn't do much if it isn't shellac). Personally, I use the flame technique, but two-three seconds with a pause outside the flame after each second will do it. A careful flaming will not impact the steel of the pen, but a reckless one can make it more brittle and can ruin a delicate steel nib.

 

Once a nib is prepped, the you do not need to re-oil it. After use dry it off thoroughly and store it dry, i.e. not in cardboard boxes which can absorb and hold moisture. Either leave it in the holder, if you have enough holders, or carefully remove it and store it in plastic or metal. Just be careful about touching the nib down under near the tip where the ink goes. If you do touch it again, a quick 1-2 second pass in the flame, or even a dunk in something like iron gall ink and a wipe will be enough. I use vintage steel nibs daily and have never had to oil one to keep it from rusting.

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

Check out my Steel Pen Blog

"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne

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Thanks for all the great info folks. I'm going to soak the nib today. FWIW the tip of the nib is "silvery" looking as opposed to the gold of the rest of the nib. So on the the holder. It's kinda hard to see here but there is a bunch of "stuff" built up where the nib sits in the holder. Is this part of some type of cork or something to hold the nib in the holder or does it need to be cleaned out? Thanks again for all the help and putting up with my crazy questions, if this was a fountain pen or a vintage razor I would know just what to do but here I am trying to move carefully so i don't destroy a piece of history.

post-123973-0-15402100-1489161312_thumb.jpg

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I just found a Mabie Todd nib of similar vintage in a box of indeterminate pen parts. There's several nice dip nibs but the MT is the prize.

That said, I don't know how the hell people wrote with them - it drains in an instant! It tries one's patience and suggests that the fountain pen was inevitable.

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m2squad120th, if it doesn't dissolve in water then it may need to be there, maybe to hold the wooden handle onto the gold-ish ferrule. If it comes off on your hands, try dissolving it in water again. The worst that happens is that the pen falls apart and then you take the nib and stick it into a fountain pen and make yourself a flex pen. :P

 

It looks like your pen was a slider. In other words, the nib might slide back into the pen to protect the point? Does it look like that ring in the picture was meant to slide back and forth?

 

The silvery tip on the end of the gold nib is the iridium. You see the same on the ends of gold-nib fountain pens. That was one of the reasons why gold dip nibs were so expensive. They were resistant to the corrosion you often got from the inks of the day, and the iridium tip supposedly made them smoother, and definitely longer lasting. What they also do is to make them so the gold nibs can't achieve the really fine hairlines of the un-tipped steel nibs. But that's just the nature of the gold nibs, and why they have never been used seriously by professional calligraphers.

 

Oh, and sidthecat, you can either wash the oils off the MT nib, or I would be happy to take the poor worthless thing off your hands for the scrap price of the gold. :rolleyes: Gold nibs also tolerate the flame method fairly well. Just a second or so in the flame, then out for a second, then back in for a second, then wipe off with a tissue or napkin (if you're in a coffee shop, for example). It should hold more ink after that. Or just send it to me.

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

Check out my Steel Pen Blog

"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne

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Well I did some scrubbing and the "gunk" in the above picture is "gunk" around a thin piece of gold. I absolutely cannot get the little collar to slide but it may have in a former life. The ink that is coming out of it is powdered. Not sure if it can be removed by some type of cleaner or not. I have only used alconox to clean it.

post-123973-0-27655200-1489179707_thumb.jpg

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another thought I had is if D. F. Foley made the pen "nib" is there any way to tell who manufactured the holder? Hallmarks to look for or anything?

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Daniel F Foley was the son of John Foley, of Foley Bank Pens fame. Like his father, he made gold nibs with iridium tipping. D F Foley's company was short-lived so his nibs are less common than those of his father, but as this is one of the smallest sizes, I wouldn't get too optimistic about the price. Maybe $35 if it's in perfect condition (no cracks or bends, no tipping loss) and has good flex. You can clean the ink off it with a solution of dishwashing detergent. Don't put it anywhere near a flame as the gold may melt.

 

I'd say the gold-filled holder is not worth restoring. If it doesn't have a maker's name on it, it was probably a "generic" holder supplied by the stationer who sold the nib. Originally the ring would have slid back and forth to extend and retract the nib:

 

http://i.imgur.com/GXBbQnJ.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/tXSYqWI.jpg

 

In the pictures you posted, there's too much corrosion to save it, and it looks like someone has wedged a cork in there to hold the nib in place. Fortunately, replacement holders for No.2 nibs are not hard to find on eBay. You could also use a modern dip pen holder.

 

http://i.imgur.com/utQ9Ep9.jpg

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Hallmarks are for gold or silver, they had fake gold and silver back then too....rolled gold/silver or plated.

Try dunking it in your pen flush...10% non-sudsing ammonia (actually already diluted) and water a few times.

Well....due to new info...I'll be using matches or lighters only in cleaning new nibs.

 

Yours was an old one so no problem and you don't have to 'oil' it in it is gold.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Thanks all. Since it was given to me by a coworker who knows I love fountain pens I am thinking of cleaning it up and putting it in a pen display on my desk. Although the thought has crossed my mind to try to find a fountain pen that will take a #2 nib and try out flex a little bit.

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