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Advantages Integrated (Piston) Filling System Over Converter/ Cartridge ?

fountainbel

By fountainbel
in Fountain & Dip Pens - First Stop

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

Posted
Posted

Would creating a different cavity shape in the feed also mitigate the bubble and improve the flow?

 

That air pocket would be a stagnation pressure pocket

 

Using your drawing:

 

 

I think modifying the interior of the feed housing to have that 30 degree conical shape would help the most. That and maybe enlarging the slit in the feed where it runs through the tail end of the feed housing. I highly doubt Jowo, Bock or anyone else making nibs for C/C pens are going to change their design at this point. I also doubt the standard international converter will see any more evolution at this point.

 

What we need is someone to redesign the Jowo and Bock nib housings with this air bubble issue in mind, and offer a new type of converter to work with the new nib housing. Sell the two pieces as a kit...you'd just pull your nib and feed from the stock housing, insert into the new one and start using the new converter. I've actually already done some research and made some sketches for a new converter. You can get slightly more volume out of the standard international converter's same dimensions, and you can have a wider mouth on the converter -- all while fitting in the same exterior dimensions they occupy now. But as long as people think there's nothing wrong with the current design, a better design wouldn't get easily adopted...

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Karmachanic Donor Pen

Karmachanic

Posted
Posted

I must be doing something wrong. No flow problems with converter pens.

Every couple of days I point the nip skywards and advance the converter piston to dispel the air.

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

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I must be doing something wrong. No flow problems with converter pens.

Every couple of days I point the nip skywards and advance the converter piston to dispel the air.

Why do you do that? If you have no flow problems, surely you could save yourself the hassle and just write with the pen until it runs dry and refill?

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Karmachanic Donor Pen

Karmachanic

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Why do you do that? If you have no flow problems, surely you could save yourself the hassle and just write with the pen until it runs dry and refill?

 

No air = no air bubble problem. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

Edited by Karmachanic

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

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No air = no air bubble problem. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

 

 

I don't see how the position of the piston could affect how air flows through the nib's feed housing. Maybe we are talking about two different things?

 

I would agree that advancing the piston can help with the issue of ink sticking in the back of the converter, though. That problem is also dependent on the ink being used though. I have some inks that don't stick at all and others look like solid globs until you flick the converter with a fingernail...

 

Maybe all converters should be coated with Teflon on the inside, lol.

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SpecTP Collectors Item

SpecTP

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Posted (edited)

 

No air = no air bubble problem. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

 

To me, this is a venturi fluid flow model. I would think we could apply similar methods and shape to promote the ink flow here. I think Francis has similar thoughts with his rendering.

Edited by SpecTP
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praxim Donor Pen

praxim

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I do not see that removing air from the converter would help, given how a fountain pen works. Expelling air with the piston might coincidentally clear any incipient air bubble from the end of the feed, so preventing a possible problem there.

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sansenri Donor Pen

sansenri

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it should actually, if my understanding of what Francis was saying is correct.

According to Francis the air bubble is an issue which gradually builds up.

When the bubble is small (converter full, or free of air as suggested by Karmachanic) the issue is not evident, as the converter empties and air builds up it reaches a point where flow is hindered.

Pointing the pen upwards should free the converter from air, but we don't always do that, do we, especially as we write...

Opening the pen and pushing up the converter piston is something I do too, but I do feel annoyed when I need to do this to get my CC pen to write again...

 

The other issue I was pointing out is also annoying, in some converters ink sticks at the top and will not flow down...

Washing with soap helps this, but it is quite evident that some converter materials are more prone to this than others.

A new, better converter is often the solution...

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

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The other issue I was pointing out is also annoying, in some converters ink sticks at the top and will not flow down...

Washing with soap helps this, but it is quite evident that some converter materials are more prone to this than others.

A new, better converter is often the solution...

 

 

Just once I'd love to see a "high end converter". I know that's a bit of an oxymoron, but it would be nice if someone would design and market a converter made from higher quality materials that didn't wear out as fast and didn't have the "ink sticking at the back" issue. Not sure how to solve the sticking ink issue (coat the piston in teflon!! LOL), but it would be awesome to see some actual innovation with converters.

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

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Converters are expendable.

 

 

So are car tires. Doesn't mean there aren't high quality tires out there.

 

Pretty much all the converters I've ever handled are very close in build quality visually. Always cheap feeling/looking in my opinion. What you can't tell by looking at them is how long they might last until they break. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it would be "special" to see someone go all out on a sexy converter design that is purposely built to NOT be expendable. Better design, nicer materials, etc...I'd totally buy one.

 

For me, at least, it would add some tactile pleasure to filling a pen with a converter like that. Especially when you have an expensive pen...why not have a nicer converter inside it?

 

Platinum seems to kind of "get it": some of their converters are gold plated on the metal bits.

Don't some Nakayas have artwork painted on their converters too? Edit: yes, they do. Several: goldfish, flowers, etc.

Edited by sirgilbert357
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sansenri Donor Pen

sansenri

Posted
Posted

 

 

Just once I'd love to see a "high end converter". I know that's a bit of an oxymoron, but it would be nice if someone would design and market a converter made from higher quality materials that didn't wear out as fast and didn't have the "ink sticking at the back" issue. Not sure how to solve the sticking ink issue (coat the piston in teflon!! LOL), but it would be awesome to see some actual innovation with converters.

 

you are right, that's what I would like too, and already now some converters are better than others, so it would be interesting at least to sort of classify them in order of quality and lack of the surface tension issue...

Some cartridges have inner ridges that help to break up surface tension, but you can't put ridges inside a converter, the piston would not run...some kind of internal coating would be interesting too

 

what I see instead is that quality of converters tends to get worse...

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SpecTP Collectors Item

SpecTP

Posted
Posted

 

 

Just once I'd love to see a "high end converter". I know that's a bit of an oxymoron, but it would be nice if someone would design and market a converter made from higher quality materials that didn't wear out as fast and didn't have the "ink sticking at the back" issue. Not sure how to solve the sticking ink issue (coat the piston in teflon!! LOL), but it would be awesome to see some actual innovation with converters.

 

there are commercial oleophobic (oil) and hydrophobic (water) chemical available commercially as Never Wet or Ultra Ever Dry. You can dip a swab in that stuff and coat the inside of your converter.

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hari317 Museum Piece

hari317

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Converters made by erstwhile Sheaffer and Parker have stood the test of time. especially their squeeze converter designs. Despite having a pretty narrow orifice in the case of Sheaffer, the pens work flawlessly without exhibiting flow problems. retrofit these converters with PVC sacs and you have a truly lifetime converter. I think it has to do with the full design of the feeder plus converter made by the same company thus it is cohesive. Instead of the present case where most likely one vendor makes only nibs, another vendor makes only housings and feeders and integrates the nib to their housing. Converters have to come from a third specialist. Do all these components work well together? yes, most of the times, but very often they dont.

Edited by hari317

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Karmachanic Donor Pen

Karmachanic

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Posted (edited)

 

there are commercial oleophobic (oil) and hydrophobic (water) chemical available commercially as Never Wet or Ultra Ever Dry. You can dip a swab in that stuff and coat the inside of your converter.

 

Hmm. Acetone in my pens?

Edited by Karmachanic

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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sirgilbert357 Antique

sirgilbert357

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I think a better solution would be to have the materials used in the converter wall and the piston seal repel ink via texture or durable inert surface treatments that won't chemically react with ink. Additives in your ink = more work on my part and possibly unwanted outcomes (ink too wet, chemical reaction ruining the ink).

 

I don't know, just thinking out loud. This isn't my area of expertise. I have a design for a converter I want to build, but it only address the "cheap and disposable" side of things (and adds a bit more capacity). Short of literally coating the inside of the converter with Teflon, I have no other "new" solutions for ink sticking to the back...

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