Steel Nibs & Tipping

[TinkerTailor]

Like a lot of people, most of the nibs that I write with on a daily basis are steel. I've read (here and elsewhere) that some "cheaper" steel nibs don't contain any "iridium" (osmium, or some such hard metal) tipping at all, but in fact the tip is merely a rolled piece or blob of the same steel that the nib is made of. How cheap is "cheap?" I own steel nibs that I've bought from Franklin-Christoph, Edison, and Pelikan. Is it safe to assume that all of these have some sort of long lasting, extremely durable tipping?

 

TT

[T4TEXAS]

Yes.

[zaddick]

I think FC says on their website that the regular steel nibs are not tipped.

 

I think the Pel and Edison are tipped.

[zwack]

How long lasting do you need? I have an esterbrook or two with untipped nibs and no issues. I don't know exactly how old they are.

[dompred]

Can anyone add in to the topic? I own several chinese pens and I was under the impression that all of them have some sort of tipping on their nibs. Am I wrong? How can I tell if there is no tipping? (Talking about regular nibs and not stubs)

[balson]

one of reason's why steel nibs are very often untipped is because you have to heat both metals to the same temperature when you add on the tipping. tipping is typically one of the members of the platinum family, so even though its just a small ball, that cost adds up when compared to folding a tiny bit of steel over when you are stamping out a piece of metal. untipped nibs will wear down, but you likely won't notice it much, because they will wear to the way you hold the pen. if you pick up an old esterbrook, you often will see a flat spot on the nib where it touched the paper. if it matches your hand its not a big deal, but if you hold the pen differently than the other person you will feel it. a quick sanding with a high grit micromesh will fix that quickly enough though. usually untipped nibs have extra large tines or extra large balls on the end knowing that it will be worn down.

[Randal6393]

Welcome to FPN, TT

 

Pull up a chair and rest a while. Your question is a good one but one with a rather murky answer, confused by a number of factors.

 

First, a bit of history. Back in the 1920's fountain pen inks were pretty caustic or highly acidic very often. So the good pens had gold nibs. Such soft metal needed a tip that was not going to wear out in a few years. So the habit of adding an "iridium" tip to the pen. "Iridium" meaning any alloy of noble metals that was durable, tough, and available in a nugget form. Cut, ground, made into a pellet, and welded to the tip of a gold nib, and formed into a usable writing tip.

 

As the years passed and metallurgy improved, the alloy of noble metals became more predictable. Note that iridium, in this case, is a description and not an accurate list of ingredients in the nib-tip. Two other factors changed. The inks became closer to pH-neutral and the steels used in pen nibs became a stainless steel rather than a fancy form of wrought iron. So the pen nibs went from gold to stainless steel. And the need for a noble metal tip could be met with a stainless steel tip. Pens need not have a gold nib nor an iridium tip to function well.

 

On the subject of longevity, I have pens from the 1980's that have seen regular use and write as well now as they did when I first sharpened them. With stainless steel nibs and no tipping. Most of those pens cost around $5.00 new, can still be purchased for $10.00 on eBay. My favorites are the Sheaffer NoNonsense in Italic Fine. Also love the Platignum Silverline with an Italic Medium nib. And Osmiroid pens also work well.

 

My favorite modern pens are the Noodler Konrads (sometimes Ahabs) with a JoWo 1.1 mm nib from Goulet Pens. Although there are many other pens that write as well.

 

Best of luck,

[Fuzzy_Bear]

one of reason's why steel nibs are very often untipped is because you have to heat both metals to the same temperature when you add on the tipping. tipping is typically one of the members of the platinum family, so even though its just a small ball, that cost adds up when compared to folding a tiny bit of steel over when you are stamping out a piece of metal. untipped nibs will wear down, but you likely won't notice it much, because they will wear to the way you hold the pen. if you pick up an old esterbrook, you often will see a flat spot on the nib where it touched the paper. if it matches your hand its not a big deal, but if you hold the pen differently than the other person you will feel it. a quick sanding with a high grit micromesh will fix that quickly enough though. usually untipped nibs have extra large tines or extra large balls on the end knowing that it will be worn down.

I can confirm this. I bought an old Estie and had to learn how to write with that nib. I bought some at a pen show to replace it. But it was nice because it was a stub that was vertical instead of horizontal the way it was worn.

[FOUR X FOUR]

Tinker Tailor, if I understand you, correctly. You are wrong. the tipping is a different metal than the nib itself.

[rwilsonedn]

One generalization is that most standard (EF through B ) nibs these days are tipped with something hard. Many, if not most, large stub, cursive italic, and italic nibs are untipped. But as Randal points out, late twentieth-century steel nibs are hard enough that you won't wear them out soon unless you are writing with a very heavy hand on abrasive paper or something of the sort. I would let the writing feel be my guide, rather than the material on the tip or, for that matter, the composition of rest of the nib.

ron

Edited August 12, 2016 by rwilsonedn

[sirgilbert357]

OK, whoa....wait just a minute...

 

So, the Franklin-Christoph Model 3 I have came with their regular steel nib - medium, if it matters. So, am I correct in reading that these nibs do NOT have any hard tipping? I know the 1.1 stub I got with my Model 3 doesn't have any tipping, but I thought the medium nib DID....

[TinkerTailor]

These responses have been useful and interesting, especially as this seems to be something of a minor mystery.

 

A few people have asked why tipping matters, especially if contemporary steel is more than hard enough to outlive our use of the pens. Certainly that makes sense, and I'm willing to admit the possibility that it may really not matter, but 2 things:

 

First, I am a decidedly novice FP user who still struggles (and probably will perpetually) with writing form (pressure, angle, etc). While I'm confident that in the course of my life I'm not going to wear away the steel, I do wonder if my poor form might modify the nib in a way that I don't want.

 

And second, whether it matters or not for the writing experience or longevity of the pen, part of the joy (for me and I assume for many) of fountain pens is their craftsmanship, their composition, their construction, and their uniqueness. To be frank, one way or another, I'd like to know!

 

I'm tempted to write to a few of the companies I've mentioned to ask them!

[zwack]

I don't think that you are going to damage an untipped nib while trying to learn to write with it unless you use something very abrasive on it. Do you write on sandpaper? If you use regular paper then I suspect you will need to write a lot at one angle and then change angles suddenly.

 

Of course I have no proof.

[watch_art]

It's not a mystery.

The only modern nibs from the companies mentioned so far, that AREN'T tipped, are the stubs. The 1.1 and 1.5 and the Franklin Christoph music nib. The res of them are ALL tipped.

 

The nib and tipping material isn't heated up before joining though. The tipping is welded on with an electrical surge or whatever it's called. Just like in this video-

 

[Buzz_130]

You have two different issues in your question.

 

First, I also have Esterbrook nibs that are steel without an iridium ball. If you attend Richard Binder's nib smoothing class, he will tell you they are not good pens to practice nib smoothing techniques. However, they write well. My nibs are not NOS and have likely seen decades of use. A modern steel pen will give you decades of use.

 

Second, a fountain pen should write under its own weight. You should be able to cut the fountain pen in the palm of your hand and draw the nib across the paper. The nib should leave a line without pressure from your hand. Relax your grip and remember the nib only needs contact, not pressure, with the paper to write.

 

Fountain pens are expensive compared to their ballpoint or gel pen kin. We want them to last for decades and give thousands of pages of writing enjoyment. The good news is fountain pens have lasted for 100 years, and the modern pens, even as we retrain our ham fists, will likely last the same.

 

Buzz

[Bo Bo Olson]

I know they had 'diamond' tipping in the 1890's, could well have had it on gold nibs of the 1880's..That "diamond" tip was osmium.

Gold nibs were then 'very' expensive and a status symbol....

For 14 k in size #1 =65 cents, #7 was $1.85. Each....back when unskilled labor made a dollar a day and skilled made 2-3...for carpenters, brick layers and so one.

 

And osmium was real lumpy back then....all the 'iridium compounds' used for nibs were lumpy through out the 20-30's too....until nib tipping was perfected in 1940/1...and one don't have to heat the nib since then to get a heated ball of 'iridium' to attach to the nibs. (No, they haven't really improved that since.)

 

One of the reasons one should not try to 'smooth' '20-30's or before nibs is you can pull a lump of the tipping out of it's matrix.

 

They had more than enough steel nibs, from catalog price of 14-19 cents for 1/4 of a gross...36 nibs. In the shop would have been more expensive.

 

In normal iridium sank when the earth was molten and young, Iridium was found in the 'inch or two' KT boundary from the asteroid hit of 66 million years ago. If I remember right, it was then in the '80-90-early 1900's mined mostly in Italy. And was much more expensive than gold.

[Randal6393]

Here is a link to an article that explains "iridium" a bit better than I can: http://www.nibs.com/article5.html "Iridium" is a generic name for tipping material in general. But the user of a fountain pen should not be concerned with tipping or no tipping. Won't make any difference.

 

General ball-point pens usually have a tip of added material, stubs don't. I would submit that tipped or not, the user may happily write away for years without wearing out his pen in either case.

 

So, pull out that pen and write away to your hearts content. That's what it is all about.

 

Enjoy,

 

PS: Sounds like wearing out a pen tip would be a great excuse to buy another one, no?

[jar]

 

 

General ball-point pens usually have a tip of added material, stubs don't. I would submit that tipped or not, the user may happily write away for years without wearing out his pen in either case.

 

Again, it really depends on the pen and marque. All of my stub nib pens have tipping.

[dcwaites]

The pens that I know of that don't have tipping --

 

Folded Tip

The original (+10 years ago) Pilot V-Pen

Sailor Ink Bar

 

Cut ends

Inexpensive calligraphy pens from Manuscript, Sheaffer, Platignum, etc.

 

Most stub pens I know of have a large block of tipping that is then cut to a block shape and smoothed.