Cloudy Ig Residue In Piston Filler

[unigami]

Thank you for the update. I have a much greater appreciation for how difficult it is to make ink...seems like a very risky business!

I'm really surprised that TWBI was charging you for the replacement barrels.

[CrispyBacon_87]

This is a good update. I almost ordered some ink from you guys, back in the summer. Now I know not to risk it, or at least not in my two Ecos.

 

Glad to see so much info from the company

[Gutoffowc]

This has happened to me too!

 

I was using an 'Antique Gold' ink and when I went to refill it the piston stuck halfway down, then it got past the sticking place but wouldn't come back up and the piston detached from the stick thing, so I had to take the pen apart.

 

The inside of the barrel has a rough patch . I can't tell if this is abrasion or residue but it didn't come off with water, nor vinegar and the piston won't go past it.

 

Is it unusable and do I have to get a new barrel, and will this happen again if I use the same ink?

 

It's a bummer!

[Gutoffowc]

Where do I get this magic polishing paste?

[kwzi]

Dear Gutoffowc,

 

I was using polishing paste for lacquers and other sensitive surfaces(like car lacquers, lamps and so on). It is mildly abrasive and so it is capable of removing roughness from the barrel while not changing the diameter of the barrel.

Anything similar you can get on your market will work. The only hard thing is taking out the piston seal. Try to put some silicone grease between barrel and the seal to take it out without damaging the barrel or seal.

 

I do not think that "Antique Gold" is one of mine inks, so you should contact TWSBI or ink manufacturer to obtain new barrel.

[amberleadavis]

And the rough spot does not make it unusable.

[PaganArcher]

I hate to rehash old topics, but I seem to have encountered some of these issues and then some.

 

I started using IG Gold earlier this year and now seem to have run into a couple of problems in my Eco. The Eco was purchased middle of last year, and the IG Gold ink in March of this year (batch number on the box is 150816).

 

Along with the barrel clouding and having to spend a great deal of time getting the piston head out, it appears as if the piston head itself is fraying.

 

Has anyone else encountered this second issue? Is my bottle of IG Gold from before or after the formula change? (I have no idea based on the batch code. Hopefully someone from KWZI sees this.)

 

 

 

[JakobS]

Batch number is the date it was bottled, day, month, year.

[PaganArcher]

Batch number is the date it was bottled, day, month, year.

Thank ya kindly. That means that my bottle was made prior to the change mentioned by KWZI in an earlier post, which explains the barrel issue.

 

The piston head still baffles me though.

[kwzi]

I hate to rehash old topics, but I seem to have encountered some of these issues and then some.

 

I started using IG Gold earlier this year and now seem to have run into a couple of problems in my Eco. The Eco was purchased middle of last year, and the IG Gold ink in March of this year (batch number on the box is 150816).

 

Along with the barrel clouding and having to spend a great deal of time getting the piston head out, it appears as if the piston head itself is fraying.

 

Has anyone else encountered this second issue? Is my bottle of IG Gold from before or after the formula change? (I have no idea based on the batch code. Hopefully someone from KWZI sees this.)

 

20170820_111134.png

 

 

20170820_105934.jpg

 

We are very sorry for the inconvenience, the batch is from before september.

Please contact us via http://kwzink.com/language/en/contact/ and we will provide you with replacement of the ink bottle and barrel for pen.

 

Best Regards,

Konrad

[PaganArcher]

 

We are very sorry for the inconvenience, the batch is from before september.

Please contact us via http://kwzink.com/language/en/contact/ and we will provide you with replacement of the ink bottle and barrel for pen.

 

Best Regards,

Konrad

Konrad, I appreciate the response and have contacted you via the link.

[glorfindel]

Do you think that the removal of the surfactant could answer the question in https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326310-kwz-cappuccino-was-there-a-formulation-change/ ?

 

I also wanted to note, that this post actually raised KWZi immensely in my eyes, not lowered. Bad stuff happens to any company. But I judge the company not by the bad stuff that happens to it, but by the steps taken to remedy that. And boy, you have gone the extra-extra mile to fix the issue.

 

 

 

Okay.

I do know that most of you would like that getting information a lot earlier.

We all had many theories about what is causing the problem. My first guess was that it was some interaction between silicone grease, ink and material that the barrel of Eco is made of. I was leaning to this explanation at beginning because I did checked compatibility of our inks with almost any plastic that could be used in making a fountain pen.

In August I was able to obtain barrels from Eco pens that were etched. We did run tests on it, and than we found out what was probably interacting with the barrel of Eco. It was not a single ingredient that was interacting with surface of Eco, but a mixture of one of components ink with surfactants that are used in preparing the ink. There were other issues with this component, is it only a one faulty batch of this component or is it something different. Since September we replaced the component with a different one, which was not causing the problem.

As this problem was connected with surfactants I made a theory that the cause of etching might be extracting of plasticizer from the plastic by surfactant. If this would be happening than it would lead to changes that are visible on barrel of some Eco pens. Like in this post: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/307808-cloudy-ig-residue-in-piston-filler/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3745118

In December we were finally able to contact with TWSBI representative. And after exchanging few emails with them we all came to conclusion that the ink is interacting with surface coating that is specific to TWSBI Eco.

Ink is not reacting with material that barrel is made of. It is removing anti-scratch coating from inside of the barrel - there is no dissolving of the surface coating. Rather than that one of the components of the ink was lowering the adhesion between the surface coating and the material of the barrel. When piston starts moving it peel off the surface coating - and this is why etching is almost seen only in place where piston moving.

We do not know exactly what kind of surface coating TWSBI is using in Eco pens, they are not going to tell that to anybody. And we find it to expensive to determine this on our own. Also the source of the problem might not be the coating itself but method of putting it on the pen or similar. But we were informed by TWSBI that they other pens use different type of surface coating.

To demonstrate that ink is reacting only with surface I made a small experiment. It can be also informative in case of someone would like to polish their barrel on their own (not only Eco).

I took one of Eco barrels that was etched, before it looked like this:

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20161125_172009.jpg

I than started polishing the barrel with polishing paste, here is effect after about 30 seconds.

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20170117_205259.jpg

The barrel is damaged on this picture because earlier I cut off one point of the barrel, and break off a piece at another point - I needed more material for testing.

And here it is after around 1 minute of polishing:

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20170117_205245.jpg

To speed up the thing a bit, I put a lot of polishing paste inside the barrel and rotated the paper inside the barrel using cordless screwdriver.

Here is barrel after some polishing, and cleaning in ultrasonic cleaner:

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20170117_210505.jpg

Because barrel is still wet and there is a bit of wax from polishing paste on it, it actually looks that it polished better than in reality. But still the improvement from starting point was clearly seen. Before putting ink in the barrel, the water and wax from the inside of the barrel were wiped out with paper towel.

After that barrel was stopped at one point, and than filled with ink, almost to the top and left for few hours.

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20170117_214431.jpg

After those 4 hours of waiting, flushing with water and wiping with paper towel th the barrel looked like this:

http://kwzink.com/fpngallery/20170118_011012c.jpg

The part in green rectangle was not polished - it was left that way on purpose, to have a reference on one part. We can see on above picture that polished part of the barrel was not affected by the ink. And only the place where the surface coating was still present on barrel was affected by the ink.

Since September we took those actions regarding to Eco situation:

• We naturally stopped distributing inks that had the highest concentration of mentioned earlier ingredient that was main cause of the problem - those inks were causing most problem with Eco problem.
• All our inks manufactured since September no longer have the ingredient that was main cause of the problem.
• As TWSBI started to charge for replacement barrels for Eco pens, we started refunding cost of the barrel, sending replacement barrel or repairing damaged barrel of Eco fountain pen.

What is also known:

• The problem is restricted specifically to TWSBI Eco.
• some Eco are more robust than others, but still if you have one of our inks manufactured between March/April and September of 2016 do not use it with TWSBI Eco fountain pens.

 

This is very hard time for us, as we put a lot of hard work in developing and manufacturing of our inks. What is also very sad for us is substantial loss of trust in our products, which will be very hard to gain again. What is frustrating, is that despite our best efforts it was impossible to predict that TWSBI will use this anti-scratch coating in one of their pens.

 

Best Regards,

Konrad

 

[crosshatch]

[...]

This is very hard time for us, as we put a lot of hard work in developing and manufacturing of our inks. What is also very sad for us is substantial loss of trust in our products, which will be very hard to gain again. What is frustrating, is that despite our best efforts it was impossible to predict that TWSBI will use this anti-scratch coating in one of their pens.

 

Best Regards,

Konrad

 

I'm late to this post, but I just wanted to let you know that, after becoming captivated by "Honey" and researching that ink, I turned up posts on this issue on reddit, here, and other places. After seeing this thread, I confidently purchased some bottles of KWZ inks and plan on buying more. Although I could have gotten similar ink colors from other manufacturers, I was so impressed by how you handled this issue that you've made me a new and loyal fan of your inks.

Edited January 1, 2019 by crosshatch