Cmyk Ink Mixing

[Sandy1]

Sandy, somewhere we had a discussion about the additive / subtractive color theories and why RYB mixes are murky and muddy. Do you recall that? (I could be just crazy).

 

 

Hi,

 

Perhaps those matters came-up in a tangential fashion, but I do not recall an in-depth exchange.

 

It might have been when we looked at the deficiencies of computer-based rendering of ink samples: a subtractive system depicting a colour created by an additive method. (?)

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

worqx Color Systems - Subtractive & Additive http://www.worqx.com/color/color_systems.htm and the follow-on link to various Colour Wheels/Triangles http://www.worqx.com/color/color_wheel.htm Those who wish to push the boat out can follow the links in the right hand side margin.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

I will definitely have a look at color systems and their history. With the MCS is there a color chart or any other reference that would be of help when mixing inks to get a color we like?

 

 

Hi,

 

I am unaware of such a formula-oriented approach, though a persistent search of the 'net may reveal something useful.

 

Once again, I encourage anyone embarking on ink blending to start building their own array of samples. Perhaps the easiest starting point is to blend two inks to produce variants of the resulting colour. e.g. Magenta + Yellow to see what Red inks can be conjured.

 

Bye,

S1

[Ash1]

 

 

Hi,

 

I am unaware of such a formula-oriented approach, though a persistent search of the 'net may reveal something useful.

 

Once again, I encourage anyone embarking on ink blending to start building their own array of samples. Perhaps the easiest starting point is to blend two inks to produce variants of the resulting colour. e.g. Magenta + Yellow to see what Red inks can be conjured.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Ok. I guess the key is to experiment. I came across RIMIK Rainbow Ink Mixing Kit for Beginners that use CMYK. I do not know what the individual inks are like but in theory you should be able to make any color from these four, but I assume in practice this might not be the case. I was wondering if you have the time could you have a look at these inks and see what you think. Here is the link:

http://www.octopus-office.de/en/shop/details/c/fuellhaltertinte-schreibtinte/p/rimikTM-rainbow-ink-mixing-kit-fuer-fuellhalter/

 

Thanks,

Ash

[amberleadavis]

Thanks, Sandy!

[Sandy1]

 

Ok. I guess the key is to experiment. I came across RIMIK Rainbow Ink Mixing Kit for Beginners that use CMYK. I do not know what the individual inks are like but in theory you should be able to make any color from these four, but I assume in practice this might not be the case. I was wondering if you have the time could you have a look at these inks and see what you think. Here is the link:

http://www.octopus-office.de/en/shop/details/c/fuellhaltertinte-schreibtinte/p/rimikTM-rainbow-ink-mixing-kit-fuer-fuellhalter/

 

Thanks,

Ash

 

 

Hi,

From what I could see, the RIMIK kit seems to be a good starting point. One thing I like about it is they are designed for blending, rather than being cobbled together from existing inks. Hence the possibility of an unsafe blend, and subsequent deployment of a fowling piece is nil.

In addition to the kit, I suggest getting some distilled water for increasing Value, cotton swabs for quick ‘ranging’ samples, [glass] eyedroppers for drawing/measuring ink, wee vials + labels to hold the ink used when conjuring blends (that avoids the risk of inadvertent contamination of the main volume), some dampen dishes in which to conjure the blends, a stir-stick, a bottle for collecting the heeltaps (an adventure unto itself), sampling pen/s, and basic PPE: gloves and eye protection. One should also decide which papers to use.

> See A Better Dip Nib https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/246789-a-better-dip-nib/?p=2690628

Then there’s the task of setting-up your sampling sheet templates and documentation - it is a right nuisance to toil for hours to get a wonderful blend, only to find that it cannot be replicated. (My beef stew is somewhat like that.)

> The Topic on conjuring Gal-Lexi includes a few examples of how I set-up my sampling sheets. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/234049-noodlers-lexington-gray-galileo-manuscript-brown/?p=2517090 ; also my effort to ‘Put the Blue Back in Blue-Black’ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/223337-essri-mixes/

As ever, I fully support and enable those who have the curiosity and desire to sail upon the inky seas in search of knowledge and booty, and fingers crossed that they return to tell the tale.

Bye,

S1

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sandy1

[Ash1]

 

 

Hi,

From what I could see, the RIMIK kit seems to be a good starting point. One thing I like about it is they are designed for blending, rather than being cobbled together from existing inks. Hence the possibility of an unsafe blend, and subsequent deployment of a fowling piece is nil.

In addition to the kit, I suggest getting some distilled water for increasing Value, cotton swabs for quick ‘ranging’ samples, [glass] eyedroppers for drawing/measuring ink, wee vials + labels to hold the ink used when conjuring blends (that avoids the risk of inadvertent contamination of the main volume), some dampen dishes in which to conjure the blends, a stir-stick, a bottle for collecting the heeltaps (an adventure unto itself), sampling pen/s, and basic PPE: gloves and eye protection. One should also decide which papers to use.

> See A Better Dip Nib https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/246789-a-better-dip-nib/?p=2690628

Then there’s the task of setting-up your sampling sheet templates and documentation - it is a right nuisance to toil for hours to get a wonderful blend, only to find that it cannot be replicated. (My beef stew is somewhat like that.)

> The Topic on conjuring Gal-Lexi includes a few examples of how I set-up my sampling sheets. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/234049-noodlers-lexington-gray-galileo-manuscript-brown/?p=2517090 ; also my effort to ‘Put the Blue Back in Blue-Black’ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/223337-essri-mixes/

As ever, I fully support and enable those who have the curiosity and desire to sail upon the inky seas in search of knowledge and booty, and fingers crossed that they return to tell the tale.

Bye,

S1

 

I have been specifically looking at inks which are designed to be mixed. I have found Platinum Mix Free inks, Rohrer and Klinger, De Atramentis Document inks and L'Artisan Pastellier Classique. If I have just CMYK would I be able to make any color?

[Sandy1]

 

I have been specifically looking at inks which are designed to be mixed. I have found Platinum Mix Free inks, Rohrer and Klinger, De Atramentis Document inks and L'Artisan Pastellier Classique. If I have just CMYK would I be able to make any color?

 

 

Hi,

 

That's the theory.

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Thanks, Sandy!

 

[LuckyKate]

This may have already been said, but CMYK is subtractive. It works because there are tiny little adjacent points of different colors with spaces between (think Seurat or Chuck Close), plus the key. None of the CMYK colors are actually blended at all. They are made up of tiny dots placed side by side, not by mixing.

Edited May 4, 2016 by LuckyKate

[LuckyKate]

Also RBG, the additive color wheel, refers to light, not pigments. That's why RGB can be used on computer monitors, which use light, but when not when printing out, because pigment colors are never as bright as the screen.

 

A 12 color pigment wheel is really useful and can be bought at an art supply store. It's a lot less complicated than the Munsell wheel.

[Ash1]

 

 

Hi,

 

That's the theory.

 

Bye,

S1

 

I apologise for the amount of the questions but I like to know things before I do any mixing. How do we increase and decrease the value and chroma of an ink?

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Munsell-system.svg/2000px-Munsell-system.svg.png

[Sandy1]

Also RBG, the additive color wheel, refers to light, not pigments. That's why RGB can be used on computer monitors, which use light, but when not when printing out, because pigment colors are never as bright as the screen.

 

A 12 color pigment wheel is really useful and can be bought at an art supply store. It's a lot less complicated than the Munsell wheel.

 

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for mentioning a simple art store colour wheel.

 

I reckon those could be a good guide, but the one I have is flakey, so seems more of a visualisation tool than a reference.

 

It would be of interest to see a colour wheel based on various ratios of CMY+K inks, which would demonstrate just where theory and reality lose touch and don't tango.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 5, 2016 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

 

I apologise for the amount of the questions but I like to know things before I do any mixing. How do we increase and decrease the value and chroma of an ink?

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Munsell-system.svg/2000px-Munsell-system.svg.png

 

Hi,

 

Value can be increased by reducing the amount of ink on the paper. In practice that can be done by several basic means: diluting the ink, using a pen with a lower flow-rate, using a less absorbent paper. In practice, decreasing the Value is done by using a pen with high flow rate and/or using a more absorbent paper. Unfortunately it is largely impractical to increase the dye-load of an ink (the opposite of dilution.) There are a few tricks, based on how our perception works, such as using narrow nibs and and expansive hand to make the perceived Value appear higher, or tinkering with the base-tint and optical brightening agents of the paper. It should be noted that some of the cellulose-reactive inks are very reluctant to respond to changes of pen and paper - they run on rails.

 

Dealing with Chroma is fairly tricky, as we are working with translucent dyes, not pigments, so the extent to which the paper is dyed comes into play. For the most part Chroma cannot be increased, though for some of the low Value inks, increasing the Value can give us more 'snap'. (As was seen in the Topic of dilution PR DC Supershow Blue mentioned above.) Chroma is reduced by adding a neutral Grey, as was demonstrated in the Gal-Lexi blend mentioned above, where the Value was increased and the Chroma was decreased. As an extreme example, the ESSRI blends mentioned above, show how the non-ESSRI inks can be given both decreased Value and Chroma, (ESSRI being very low Chroma and Value, and a Hue that is not too too far away from Grey.)

 

Other examples of the relationship between Value and Chroma can be seen in the set of dilution samples of NBsBl https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/180675-dilution-noodlers-baystate-blue/ and by comparing Fig 5 to Fig 7 in this Topic https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/181090-comparison-pelikan-edelstein-topaz-pilot-asa-gao-noodlers-baystate-blue-private-reserve-american-blue/

 

Inks with high shading potential, such as Noodler's Apache Sunset and most of the iron-gall inks, exhibit variations in both Value and perceived Chroma; and in the case of NAS some would say Hue too!

 

Wheee!

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 5, 2016 by Sandy1

[amberleadavis]

Sandy, you are so smart and knowledgeable. Thank you. I appreciate that you simultaneously explain a subject, answer questions, and don't' make me feel stupid.

[Sandy1]

Sandy, you are so smart and knowledgeable. Thank you. I appreciate that you simultaneously explain a subject, answer questions, and don't' make me feel stupid.

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your compliments!

 

After sailing upon the inky seas for a while, like you I have booty to share and yarns to spin.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 5, 2016 by Sandy1

[sandy wp]

I'm so glad I found this thread.

 

This color wheel stamp and metal die set might come in handy for those wanting to recreate a custom observation of color mixing.  If you do try this, please share your process and results!
https://waffleflower.com/products/color-wheels-combo

 

Sandy1/Minty your name often comes up when I'm researching FP, you're so generous with sharing your knowledge.  Did you try mixing any Pilot Iroshizuku yet?  If so, what colors did you use for CMYK? 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by sandy wp

[XYZZY]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:08 AM, sandy wp said:

Did you try mixing any Pilot Iroshizuku yet?  If so, what colors did you use for CMYK? 

 

That's a neat idea.  An Asa Gao recipe would be awesome 🙂