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Very Wet Feed (Flooding) -- What To Do?


duncsuss

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I bought some Bock nib units on eBay which appear to be designed to use in non-cartridge pens (such as eye-dropper, piston, or sac) as they have no rear nipple for a cartridge/converter to slide onto.

I've built a couple of pens for these nibs so far, and both have the same problem: too much ink flow, with the result that I get a puddle of ink if I don't keep writing at top speed.

Right now I've got an eyedropper loaded with Noodler's Red Fox (ink which works well in my cartridge/converter pens) but the feed runs way too fast in this pen.

Is there a recommended way to slow down the feed?

Is there a better choice of ink to use with this "fast feed" nib unit?

Thanks for any guidance.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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I think an option might be, if the Bock nibs are #6 size and are friction fit into the nib unit, is to remove the nib and use it with the Noodler's supplied feed.

 

My guess is that the nib unit does not fit snuggly into the pen unit and ink is running freely from the barrel.

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My guess is that the nib unit does not fit snuggly into the pen unit and ink is running freely from the barrel.

 

I had an Onoto that dropped ink onto the page until I remembered that this behaviour had only started after I had swapped nib units. After giving the nib unit an extra tighten, the ink blobbing stopped completely. I think that gryphon1911 may have hit on the answer -- if the nib unit is loose, air may have too easy a passage into the ink reservoir, thus allowing the ink to flow outwards.

 

But what do I know?

 

[Answer: marginally more than zero.]

 

Cheers,

David.

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I think an option might be, if the Bock nibs are #6 size and are friction fit into the nib unit, is to remove the nib and use it with the Noodler's supplied feed.

 

My guess is that the nib unit does not fit snuggly into the pen unit and ink is running freely from the barrel.

 

Thanks, but there's a misunderstanding. I'm a pen maker -- nothing about this pen (except the ink inside it) is from Noodler.

 

I bought Bock nib units (nib, feed and housing), the section into which the unit screws I made myself (and I made the body and cap too -- I bought the clip though :) )

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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Thanks, I'll look for air leaks -- though I'm fairly certain the nib/feed housing is sealed in the section (I put some silicone grease on there since I had it out to grease the section/body threads, it being an eye-dropper)

 

 

I had an Onoto that dropped ink onto the page until I remembered that this behaviour had only started after I had swapped nib units. After giving the nib unit an extra tighten, the ink blobbing stopped completely. I think that gryphon1911 may have hit on the answer -- if the nib unit is loose, air may have too easy a passage into the ink reservoir, thus allowing the ink to flow outwards.

 

But what do I know?

 

[Answer: marginally more than zero.]

 

Cheers,

David.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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I know I'm going to sound like an a$$, but if you are a "pen maker" then why are you asking random forum visitors for the answer? Wouldn't a pen maker know the answer to this?

 

Color me confused.

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I know I'm going to sound like an a$$, but if you are a "pen maker" then why are you asking random forum visitors for the answer? Wouldn't a pen maker know the answer to this?

 

Color me confused.

 

Not at all a$$like. I'm a pen maker, not a nib maker, and not a nib-meister.

 

When I've had nib and ink questions in the past, I've found the visitors to this forum to be anything but random -- the breadth of fountain pen knowledge and experience here beats any pen making forums I know about.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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Change the ink.

The few Noodler's inks that I've used have been the WETTEST inks that I have.

Try using Pelikan ink (dry), or the old standards Sheaffer Skrip or Parker Quink. Although Parker might be a bit wet.

 

I would not test a pen with an extreme end ink like Noodler's.

When I test a newly restored or repaired pen, I use Sheaffer Skrip.

Edited by ac12

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

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If you're dealing with a Bock nib unit, the nib and feed will be friction fit inside the housing. Grip the nib (with your thumb) and the feed (with forefinger) and pull firmly (you might want to use some soft grippy material), and both should come out without too much trouble. Then check to make sure they're aligned correctly (to one another) and reinsert, making sure they're firmly re-seated. You'll probably find that the inner surface of the nib assembly 'sleeve' is notched / shaped so they'll only fit back if properly oriented - but it's normally not too hard to work that out.

 

You may also want to have a look at SBRE Brown's YouTube video on making a wet nib slightly drier - it may also be of some help.

 

Re inks, Pelikan inks (the 4001 range, not so much the higher-end Edelstein inks) have a reputation for being a little drier. than most.

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Change the ink.

The few Noodler's inks that I've used have been the WETTEST inks that I have.

Try using Pelikan ink (dry), or the old standards Sheaffer Skrip or Parker Quink. Although Parker might be a bit wet.

 

I would not test a pen with an extreme end ink like Noodler's.

When I test a newly restored or repaired pen, I use Sheaffer Skrip.

 

Thanks -- I have a couple of bottles of Sheaffer Skrip and several Chesterfield (rebadged Diamine) to choose from. I'll try one of those and see what happens.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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These are "not your standard Bock" units. I finally managed to get one apart, and the "housing" is nothing but a cylindrical band, open at both ends, with threads on about half of the outside surface. I had to knock the feed and nib out (something that Mike Masuyama had told me he did to one of these when he reground it for me), no amount of wiggling and pulling was going to shift them :)

 

I will look for SBRE Brown's video, it sounds like something I will learn from.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

If you're dealing with a Bock nib unit, the nib and feed will be friction fit inside the housing. Grip the nib (with your thumb) and the feed (with forefinger) and pull firmly (you might want to use some soft grippy material), and both should come out without too much trouble. Then check to make sure they're aligned correctly (to one another) and reinsert, making sure they're firmly re-seated. You'll probably find that the inner surface of the nib assembly 'sleeve' is notched / shaped so they'll only fit back if properly oriented - but it's normally not too hard to work that out.

 

You may also want to have a look at SBRE Brown's YouTube video on making a wet nib slightly drier - it may also be of some help.

 

Re inks, Pelikan inks (the 4001 range, not so much the higher-end Edelstein inks) have a reputation for being a little drier. than most.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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These are "not your standard Bock" units. I finally managed to get one apart, and the "housing" is nothing but a cylindrical band, open at both ends, with threads on about half of the outside surface. I had to knock the feed and nib out (something that Mike Masuyama had told me he did to one of these when he reground it for me), no amount of wiggling and pulling was going to shift them :)

 

I will look for SBRE Brown's video, it sounds like something I will learn from.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I believe it may be Bock themselves (?) who manufacture nib assemblies with an OEM-style housing that's designed for "kit pens" - I've seen them advertised elsewhere, and have a couple of their #5 nibs that sound similar. I've found them much harder to pull apart, too, so that may just be par for the course. They weren't gushers, though, so I don' think that has to do with the absence of a rear "nipple".

 

Another observation, though: on the few occasions I've converted a pen to "eyedropper" mode, I found that caused them to become wetter in and of itself - could that be another contributing factor in your case?

 

Hope you're able to reduce the flow on these nibs to your satisfaction, one way or another!

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I think I have it under control (or less uncontrolled ;) ) ... but I'm not sure if it was one or several of the things I did that improved it!

 

I dismantled the nib unit (feed, nib and housing ring) and cleaned it, then re-assembled it.

 

I added an o-ring at the section/barrel junction, and more silicone grease on the threads there and around the nib housing. Then I loaded up with a new ink (Chesterfield Antique Mariner) and wrote for a page without problems.

 

Thanks again for the help.

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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Try to avoid silicone grease, or isolate its use. It tends to migrate to places where you don't want it (like anywhere in the ink flow path), and it is a PiA to try to clean off.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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Try to avoid silicone grease, or isolate its use. It tends to migrate to places where you don't want it (like anywhere in the ink flow path), and it is a PiA to try to clean off.

 

That's good to know -- thanks!

 

Is there anything you'd suggest in place of it, as a non-permanent seal in case the threads aren't perfect?

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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A long time ago, Waterman was considered a 'wet' ink. The one you went to for a dry writing pen.

 

I have since then seen many Noodler users call it a dry or medium ink. There must be middle of the road Noodlers but many are very wet inks.

Look to see what reviewers suggest for Noodler Shading inks, in they will be drier. They have to be to shade.

 

Change to Pelikan 4001, a dry ink. MB is sort of medium. Herbin is middle to dryish. R&K is dry.

Pelikan is cheapest....the green is a very good green-green shading ink. R&K Vendura beat MB Irish Green by a nose, and Pelikan 4001 green by a neck. Any are the last three are very fine green-green inks.

 

I don't care for Pelikan Royal blue...it don't shade enough for me, fades.

What ever they call Waterman South Sea Blue now......Serenity Blue is a nice little shading ink....but Waterman was as I said, once before Noodlers considered a wet ink.....but it is something for another pen. A shading blueish turquoise.

 

If and when you get into shading inks, you need a minimum of 90G (outside of Rhaoda and Tomosomething River) and laser paper.

 

Ink Jet paper is a major NO!-NO!!!!!!! With any ink...it feathers. :angry: Shading ink needs to sit on the top of the paper for a second or so, and Ink Jet paper is designed to suck Ink Jet ink rapidly into the paper.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Thanks for this information, Bo Bo.

 

I'm finding that Chesterfield inks (made by Diamine, I believe) are working better than the Noodler's.

 

I would like to fix the pen so that it behaves like other pens (meaning Noodler's would be "wet but usable", and Pelikan is "dry but usable").

 

I make pens, and I'd like to be able to install these nib units without telling people "but you can only use inks from this list!"

Duncan Suss

 

Website: Fruit Of The Lathe

Facebook: FruitOfTheLathe

 

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That I can't help you with....I do have one semi-flex that is too dry for 4001, it is an inlaid nib on a Geha 725. As a 'noobie' I did not want to screw around with such a beautiful pen and nib, so I used Waterman as a wet ink and everything worked great. I imagine I could spread that nib a tad now....but why? It is my pen for wet inks.

I use it to enjoy my wetter more lubricated inks.

 

The rest of my pens seem to work fine. Most are classic nibs. If I have one that seems a bit too wet, I have learned how to press the nib tighter.

 

Normal classic nibs are not much trouble to open them with just your thumb nails or and close them sides of your thumb.

I'm not into spade nibs...though I have some, and none needed adjustment.

 

Nibmeisters can adjust a nib to be 6 on a scale of 10 in wetness, or 8/10. So you might not get to that stage, but making a classic nib a bit wetter or dryer is no big deal. Just check your nib vs Pelikan 4001 and a wetter Noodler and adjust it.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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