A Two Year Odyssey - My Experience With 8 Types Of Permanent Ink - Post #2 – A Loss Of Trust

[Vimy13]

Members:

 

Product Reviewed: Mont Blanc Permanent Blue – safety

 

This is the second post detailing my experiences with the 8 types of permanent inkI have used with my pen collection over 2 years.The inkreviewed in this piece will be Mont Blanc Permanent Blue and the focus will be on fountain pen safety.

 

The performance of this ink has been extensively reviewed since its introduction in 2013. Briefly, I have found that it conforms to ISO 12757-2 superbly. It IS waterproof, light fast and outer chemical resistant (have tried to erase lines of text with both alcohol and bleach to no avail). Montblanc Permanent Blue flows evenly, dries in reasonable time and exhibits no bleed-through or feathering when used on good paper. Examples of the latter include Cranes Crest 100% Cotton and Classic 100% Cotton. The color is what I would call quietly professional. It does not scream off the page like Private Reserve’s Lake Placid Blue but it conveys a sense of understated elegance suitable for a law, medical or government office. For Canadians, it is now VERY expensive (the Canadian dollar has sunk will the price of oil – och!). Until recently I would have given this product a high recommendation with the caveat that you MUST regularly clean your pen. However, an incident occurred which has shaken my faith in this product and has resulted in my not using it in any of my more expensive pens (e.g. Montblanc, Pelikan, Pilot, St Dupont, Dunhill).

 

For approximately 1 year I used the Permanent Blue almost exclusively in the crown jewel of my collection, the Mont Blanc 147 Diplomat (about 15 years old). During this time it worked perfectly and I was happy with the product. However, with no warning, my 147 stopped writing. Just a reminder, replacement cost for this pen is approximately $1200 CAD so saying I was in a panic is a gross understatement. I know what you are going to say – “you did not maintain this pen correctly”. Let me explain in more detail.

 

My friends have long written me off as a fountain pen fanatic and general weirdo when it comes to ink and paper. After all, what normal person would pay $100 CAD for a 500 page ream of Cranes Crest 100% cotton paper? Further proof of this “disease” (in their eyes) is my obsessive approach to pen cleaning. Specifically, every time I refill a fountain pen the following cleaning ritual is followed: 5 to 10 flushes with water, followed by 5 to 10 flushes with J.B.’s Perfect Pen Flush and final flushing with water until clear. I am seriously considering getting a supply of distilledwater to avoid possible lime scale contamination (eye rolling from my friends here) in my tap water. I also am constantly changing my pens to make sure that they are used on a regular basis.

 

You get the picture – an obsessive who spends time and money to keep his pens clean.This is especially true of the 147 Diplomat. Given this routine it was my belief that the danger associated permanent inks would not be a problem especially if I used a Montblanc ink in a Montblanc pen. As stated above, two months ago I started having problems. Specifically, the 147 would stop writing with no warning. When this happened the first time I used my cleaning routine and adding more flushes with the trusty J.B.’s Perfect Pens Flush. Every time this was repeated it seemed to work at first but then the pen stopped writing. I failed to take into account the large of amount of “reserve” associated with the 147’s large nib.

My cleaning routine, which had never failed before, was repeated SEVEN times with no apparent effect. I was beginning to panic when I read about the use of warm distilled water with soap as a cleaning approach. So I repeated my approach, but this time, as a last step, left my 147 soaking in soapy water for 24 hours. In the morning the water was discolored Permanent Blue giving the impression of a burst pipe. On closer inspection several small scaleswere resting on the bottom of the glass. Needless to say I was surprised and relieved. After a further thorough cleaning I reloaded my pen with Private Reserve Lake Placid Blue. I have had no further problems.

CONCLUSION: I was shocked by the fact that, despite excellent care (in my opinion), a superb pen could develop a blockage from an ink manufactured by the same company. A friend noted that with all the cleanings, the scales could have been “loosened” and thus vulnerable to the reduced surface tension effect of the soap and water. I will have to do more investigation on this surface tension theory. This incident has shaken my confidence in the Montblanc Permanent Blue and Black products and I have restricted their use to the cheaper, throw away pens in my collection (e.g. Lamy, Rotring Art Pens). It is now my feeling that over long use, DESPITE proper cleaning procedures, this ink can still badly clog your pen.

 

 

[Mr.Rene]

Hi Vimy 13...interesting review..Same problem found in Permanent Black MB Ink (White Cardboards boxes).The ink feels like an indian ink instead a fountain pen ink...The Permanent Blue Black Mb(iron gall formula) worked great...real bad decision to change a this new line...

Regards,

[dcwaites]

Sadly, there aren't many true Blue permanently Permanent inks out there to replace the MB ink with.

The two I use regularly now are Koh-i-noor Document Blue (50 ml plastic bottle) and Platinum Pigment Blue, although I have only been using them for a few months.

 

You may want to investigate using an Ultra-sonic bath to clean any more crud out of your pens.

[Safari_Camo]

Thanks for your feedback and testings.

 

Is there any recommendation in the box about proper maintenance with this ink?.
A box with cartridges of the same ink is on my way also to test in some pens in my collection (no Montblancs at present time).

 

I'll be careful with this ink.

[perfaddict]

Thankfully, i have not had a similar experience with MB Permanent Blue, my most-used ink. And i am not exceptionally meticulous cleaning my pens.

[jmccarty3]

I wonder if there might be anything in the J.B.'s Perfect Pen Flush that might have reacted with something in the MB Permanent Blue to form a precipitate.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for sharing your experience with MBPBl over time.

 

I too would be profoundly dismayed that an MB pen running an MB ink would suffer a catastrophic failure.

 

As I previously mentioned elsewhere, one works within the headroom of the pen's ability to tolerate inky residue; and that when some sort of tipping point is reached, the pen fails: no longer fills or writes as when you welcomed it into your hand. Bah! (Sharp words)

 

To my way of thinking, our inky innovators are to be congratulated; and those who choose to sail upon seas of innovative inks should, in their own best interest, sally forth to explore then find a working relationship with those inks, especially as a long term writer. At times that is a matter of catch-up: inky boffins did this, so how to respond in a manner that reasonable pen+ink combos can be determined?

 

For my part, prior to posting an Ink Review, I evaluate 'clean-up' in a progressive/escalating manner: from plain water, simple DIY chems, technical pen cleaner to ultrasonic. I've been served-up more than a few surprizes https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/255965-noodlers-54-massachusetts/?p=2825711

 

As these things can go, some inks require more than their share of time and attention to wrangle results that override the overhead of doing so, but the results can be wiggle-toes.

 

Though on most days I'd rather simple robust Pilot Blue than be torqued to accommodate an ISO compliant Blue ink which just might endanger the well-being of pens in my custody. (Pass the ESSRI mate.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sandy1

[Vimy13]

Sadly, there aren't many true Blue permanently Permanent inks out there to replace the MB ink with.

The two I use regularly now are Koh-i-noor Document Blue (50 ml plastic bottle) and Platinum Pigment Blue, although I have only been using them for a few months.

 

You may want to investigate using an Ultra-sonic bath to clean any more crud out of your pens.

dewaites:

 

I have seen references to Ultra-sonic baths previously. I have a question - is this a piece of equipment that is feasible for an individual to buy and use? I have the impression that this is associated with larger commercial operations (e.g. pen stores). Thanks for your comments.

[Vimy13]

Thanks for your feedback and testings.

 

Is there any recommendation in the box about proper maintenance with this ink?.

A box with cartridges of the same ink is on my way also to test in some pens in my collection (no Montblancs at present time).

 

I'll be careful with this ink.

I re-checked my boxes etc. (I keep everything) and did not find any help instructions or warnings.

[Vimy13]

Hi Vimy 13...interesting review..Same problem found in Permanent Black MB Ink (White Cardboards boxes).The ink feels like an indian ink instead a fountain pen ink...The Permanent Blue Black Mb(iron gall formula) worked great...real bad decision to change a this new line...

Regards,

thank you for your comments re: Permanent Black MB.

[AndyYNWA]

dewaites:

 

I have seen references to Ultra-sonic baths previously. I have a question - is this a piece of equipment that is feasible for an individual to buy and use? I have the impression that this is associated with larger commercial operations (e.g. pen stores). Thanks for your comments.

You can buy ultrasonic baths for use at home for about 35-40 €.

[katerchen]

dewaites:

 

I have seen references to Ultra-sonic baths previously. I have a question - is this a piece of equipment that is feasible for an individual to buy and use? I have the impression that this is associated with larger commercial operations (e.g. pen stores). Thanks for your comments.

 

Oh, they are pretty cheap, so that's not an issue. My question is though : are they safe for any sort of glue? (1)

 

My fear is that especially with old pens that are held together with shellac (which is designed to come apart at the drop of a feather) the vibrations would loosen not just the ink residue but the parts as well.

 

-k

 

(1) Or plating, for that matter.

[jhataway]

I am still cleaning my Onoto nib/feed after using MB permanent blue ink. This ink cloggs feeds. When the nib unit was put into an ultrasonic bath, a lot of solid precipates came floating out. The pen had been properly cleaned before using this ink. I have trashed the ink. Just a warning. I have used Noodler's permanent inks with no problems. Something is badly wrong with the MB blue, but I'm done with it.

 

Jim

[amberleadavis]

Vimy, welcome to FPN and thank you very much for sharing your experiences. We haven't heard much from you since this post. What has happened in the last year?

[jmccarty3]

I have tried two different bottles of MB Permanent Blue. The first came with a white label on the bottle and a sticker on the bottom with an expiration date of November 2018. The second came with a dark blue label on the bottle and and expiration date of December 2020. Both these inks were used in a veteran 149 with a split ebonite feed.

 

I believe there is a difference in the formulation of the white label and the blue label inks. The white label was much drier, and did not flow onto the paper evenly. It appeared that there might be small particles of precipitate in the ink that could be seen on the paper. I did not like it at all, and so ordered one of the newer blue label bottles. This is behaves very nicely, with none of the odd characteristics of the white label ink. With my sample size of n = 1 for each ink, this is hardly a scientific study, but I am wondering if MB realized that there was a problem with Permanent Blue and changed the formulation of the ink. The stock numbers on both bottles are identical, and the external packaging is identical. The only way to know which label you are getting is to open the box.

 

Whether this has anything to do with the OP's problem is anyone's guess. I did not keep the white label ink in the pen long enough to determine if there was a problem with blockage. The blue label ink has been in the 149 for four months without any problems, and is the best looking non-IG permanent blue ink I have yet seen.

[jhataway]

Interesting observation re the white label vs blue label. The ink I used was the white label. Maybe I'll try the blue label, but not in my Onoto.

[Pjtr Tamali]

Fully agree with the conclusion regarding the early version of Montblanc's Permanent Blue. I have a bottle with a white label (lot 1317? - expiration date Nov. 2018) and it's a disaster. It managed to clog every fountain pen I used it in (Pilot, Sailor, Pelican, Twsbi, Lamy, Beena,...) regardless of feed type and nib size, some pens to the extent that I almost lost my nerves cleaning them. I am sure that ink contains small particles (precipitates of some kind) that are causing the problem. I was thinking of filtering the bloody thing somehow (I work in a lab) but I find it too messy and most likely not worth the hussle. I still keep this ink as a warning not to blindly trust "the big guns" without seeing the tests / reviews first.