Sheaffer Legacy 2...is This Normal?

[jar]

Unless they are experienced with Sheaffer inlaid nibs and the vagaries of the Legacy family I'd pass. Go to one of the folk that know Sheaffer products. There is a list of such repair folk at the top of this sub-forum and one has even responded to you in this thread. It may cost a little more but you will end up with a superb product.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Quick question not directly related, but, I have a Legacy 2 with the separate Touchdown filler (which I rarely use because I have a 'thing' about needing to see my ink supply). Are the Touchdown filler cartridges themselves easily repaired should anything go wrong, or do you just try to buy a new one?

[Ron Z]

Quick question not directly related, but, I have a Legacy 2 with the separate Touchdown filler (which I rarely use because I have a 'thing' about needing to see my ink supply). Are the Touchdown filler cartridges themselves easily repaired should anything go wrong, or do you just try to buy a new one?

 

This comes up once in a while. I had a chat with a Sheaffer engineer about the gold cased Legacy converters. The only difference between the gold cased converters and the regular squeeze converter is the case. The reason that they made them was to "encourage" the owner to use the TD filling system. A regular squeeze converter works just as well with the TD system, and also allows you to fill the pen as you normally would.

 

Some NOS red end converters are still available, though they are getting harder to find, and the price keeps going up. I have maybe 50 or 60 left. Back in 2008 the service center had a bag about 3/4 full of them, and that was ALL that were left. Period.

 

BTW, you can pull the plug on a dead black end converter and replace the dead sac with a PVC ("Silicone") sac from Woodbin. You will then have in essence a red end converter. A PVC sac VS latex, and the color of the plug, are the only differences.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Thanks, RZ, good to know!

[lyonlover]

I'm not sure if my nib is leaking or not though. Ink seemed to leak where the shoulders of the nib, where the metal touches the plastic section (not the feed). When I wiped those parts with a lint-free tissue, lots of ink got onto the tissue. And ink would seep continuously from those two parts when the tissue is in contact with those sections. I have two photos of the underside of the nib, with the parts I'm talking about pointed to and circled in red. I know inlaid nibs tend to leak from the top part and get on fingers, but this leak doesn't get on my fingers when writing.

[lyonlover]

 

This comes up once in a while. I had a chat with a Sheaffer engineer about the gold cased Legacy converters. The only difference between the gold cased converters and the regular squeeze converter is the case. The reason that they made them was to "encourage" the owner to use the TD filling system. A regular squeeze converter works just as well with the TD system, and also allows you to fill the pen as you normally would.

 

Some NOS red end converters are still available, though they are getting harder to find, and the price keeps going up. I have maybe 50 or 60 left. Back in 2008 the service center had a bag about 3/4 full of them, and that was ALL that were left. Period.

 

BTW, you can pull the plug on a dead black end converter and replace the dead sac with a PVC ("Silicone") sac from Woodbin. You will then have in essence a red end converter. A PVC sac VS latex, and the color of the plug, are the only differences.

 

That's really interesting Ron. I wonder if a softer sac would also make the TD filling system more efficient. I hope someone could make reproduction plugs in the future, as I read that the piston converter (which is still being made) is too long to fit in some older Sheaffers.

 

Do you know of a better way to seal the converter plug to the nipple though? Or is it that my converter is shot? It seems like on my pen, ink is leaking from the nipple connection, but I still haven't got my hands on a cartridge to see if that's the problem.

[Ron Z]

 

 

I wonder if a softer sac would also make the TD filling system more efficient.

 

No, it would not. The idea that a softer sac would make the pen fill better is a popular myth, but just a myth.

 

While it may be true that a softer sac would compress more easily, that is only half of the process. There is plenty of air pressure in a TD barrel to compress the sac. A soft/super flexible wall sac does not have the strength to fully pull back into shape and pull ink into the pen like a stiffer sac does.

Richard Binder and I got a bag full of the sacs that Sheaffer used in snorkels. I can assure you that the sacs were not super flexible sacs - they were just the regular wall latex sacs. The pens in which we used them worked just fine.

 

Of more importance is the 0-ring in the barrel, and a good seal at the front end so that you do get good compression of the sac. Again, using the 0-rings that Sheaffer was using, Martin Ferguson and Sam Marshall tested one of the Sheaffer 0-rings in a snorkel. They found that they worked better. The lower durometer (hardness of the rubber) and slightly larger size VS the after market 0-rings available at the time made for a better seal at the back end. The air pressure developed squeezed the sac more, the pen filled better.

 

The specification information on the packing label on the bag of snorkel 0-rings was passed on to Martin and David Nishimura, the two providers of snorkel repair parts at the time, so that they had the exact specifications for the Sheaffer parts and could special order them for resale. Whether or not they followed through on it, I don't know - but I made it available.

[lyonlover]

 

No, it would not. The idea that a softer sac would make the pen fill better is a popular myth, but just a myth.

 

While it may be true that a softer sac would compress more easily, that is only half of the process. There is plenty of air pressure in a TD barrel to compress the sac. A soft/super flexible wall sac does not have the strength to fully pull back into shape and pull ink into the pen like a stiffer sac does.

Richard Binder and I got a bag full of the sacs that Sheaffer used in snorkels. I can assure you that the sacs were not super flexible sacs - they were just the regular wall latex sacs. The pens in which we used them worked just fine.

 

Of more importance is the 0-ring in the barrel, and a good seal at the front end so that you do get good compression of the sac. Again, using the 0-rings that Sheaffer was using, Martin Ferguson and Sam Marshall tested one of the Sheaffer 0-rings in a snorkel. They found that they worked better. The lower durometer (hardness of the rubber) and slightly larger size VS the after market 0-rings available at the time made for a better seal at the back end. The air pressure developed squeezed the sac more, the pen filled better.

 

The specification information on the packing label on the bag of snorkel 0-rings was passed on to Martin and David Nishimura, the two providers of snorkel repair parts at the time, so that they had the exact specifications for the Sheaffer parts and could special order them for resale. Whether or not they followed through on it, I don't know - but I made it available.

 

Ah. That makes so much more sense now. Truly a marvel the vacuum filler is. I know there is a tiny air vent on a Snorkel barrel near the blind cap to release pressure when the TD tube is pushed down all the way, but I don't see one on my Legacy even though I can hear hissing coming from around the same area. I wonder what goes on there. I don't know how to remove the blind cap anyway (I don't see a screw inside the barrel connecting the blind cap to the TD tube) so I guess it's not obvious either.

 

Thanks for clarifying Ron. I'm learning new from this forum each and every day and it's just great.

[Ron Z]

There is a cover over the screw at the end. They aren't really meant to take apart, and are a pain in the tush to get apart when you can.

 

Put some silicone grease on the TD tube, to lubricate it. If you get a chiff at the end of the down stroke and feel a little pressure, its working.

[lyonlover]

There is a cover over the screw at the end. They aren't really meant to take apart, and are a pain in the tush to get apart when you can.

 

Put some silicone grease on the TD tube, to lubricate it. If you get a chiff at the end of the down stroke and feel a little pressure, its working.

 

Any feasible way to remove that cover though? I assume it's not glued in. I already mailed my pen in and the gaskets are fine, but I'm just curious. I like to tinker with stuff when I get the chance.

 

Did the Sheaffer engineer ever say anything about why the Legacy is so maintenance-unfriendly though? Like the section is glued in and the TD piston is weird to take apart. These measures seem kind of unnecessary (if not dumb), and I don't see how they would even help in production efficiency.

[Ron Z]

No I didn't ask. But then you would be asking the same question of most modern manufacturers.

[lyonlover]

No I didn't ask. But then you would be asking the same question of most modern manufacturers.

 

It's really weird. I hope it's not some dumb reason like "planned obsolescence" seen in consumer electronics that makes the customer purchase a new item after the current one fails, because fountain pens can be heirlooms.

[lyonlover]

Just an update:

I just got an email from one of the seller's employees and the pen is shipping back to me via USPS right now. I can't wait to see how it goes.

[lyonlover]

Another update:

 

I got the pen back today. It was packed pretty securely, although the pen was put in the case (a sort of glasses case kind of hard case.) in such a way that the plastic in the case broke in one place where the pen was too forceful on it, but no biggie. What really matters is the pen itself...

 

It writes much better now. Not uber smooth and still with lots of feedback, but a wetter in general. It's a usable pen now, although someday I intend to go to a pen show to get the nib tuned by a nibmeister to make it a bit smoother if it doesn't smooth with usage. I'm happy the pen works, though.

 

I posted a writing sample and a close-up of the nib.

 

I have another question though, and it doesn't have to do with the nib. I have really sweaty hands sometimes, and I'm afraid that the sweat might be harmful to gold-plated trim between the section and the barrel. Is my fear justified, or am I just paranoid?

Edited April 16, 2016 by lyonlover

[4lex]

Another update:

 

I got the pen back today. It was packed pretty securely, although the pen was put in the case (a sort of glasses case kind of hard case.) in such a way that the plastic in the case broke in one place where the pen was too forceful on it, but no biggie. What really matters is the pen itself...

 

It writes much better now. Not uber smooth and still with lots of feedback, but a wetter in general. It's a usable pen now, although someday I intend to go to a pen show to get the nib tuned by a nibmeister to make it a bit smoother if it doesn't smooth with usage. I'm happy the pen works, though.

 

I posted a writing sample and a close-up of the nib.

 

I have another question though, and it doesn't have to do with the nib. I have really sweaty hands sometimes, and I'm afraid that the sweat might be harmful to gold-plated trim between the section and the barrel. Is my fear justified, or am I just paranoid?

 

You are just paranoid. After couple of years of heavy use the gold plating will get braised by the inner cap anyway. At least, that is what has happened on mine. Great pen though, I prefer it to my Edson.