Inks That Eat Sacs

[max dog]

I think leaving rubber sacs unused for extensive periods is just as harmful as using bad inks. Common wisdom here would be to stay with manufacturer inks like waterman.

[amberleadavis]

Common wisdom here would be to stay with manufacturer inks like waterman.

 

I disagree. You are restricting yourself from hundreds of beautiful inks.

[the_gasman]

You are restricting yourself from hundreds of beautiful inks.

 

Absolutely! I don't use shellac on either my sacs or my section/barrel interface. It facilitates washing out my oldies between my occasional changes in ink colour. Also, since discovering this thread, I am reassured by being able to perform periodic checks on the state of my pen sacs so that I can have confidence that I am less likely to have an unheralded ink catastrophe. Of course, someone will argue that my sacs may come adrift but by using a fairly tight fit onto the section nipple and making sure that they resist moving when tugged with moderate firmness, I have avoided disaster so far. [There's always time, I know, but I'll declare my chagrin if it happens]

 

Cheers,

David.

[max dog]

 

I disagree. You are restricting yourself from hundreds of beautiful inks.

Perhaps. SACs are easy to acquire and replace. But with my 90 years old vintage Waterman 52 I'm not sure the hard rubber barrel and section will survive an unscrew/heating for easy SAC replacement, so I tend to side on caution. Fortunately I love Montblanc Corn Poppy Red in this pen, so I don't have an urge to venture into boutique inks with this pen.

[amberleadavis]

Those vintage Waterman's with the flex nibs are amazing. I see what my penpals Sinistral1 and HalloweenHJB can do with theirs and I'm totally impressed!

[Runnin_Ute]

So far I have been fortunate and not had issues, but I don't typically run something like Noodler's Black or 54th Massachusetts in my Esterbrooks (although I have).

 

Right now my Esterbrooks have inks by Sheaffer and Waterman (browns I am trying out), DeAtramentis (Goat), and Blackstone Red Cashmere....

[dannystr78]

I do all my own fountain pen repair work and I have loads of vintage pens. A leaky sac isn't the end of the world for me. I agree that there is too much evidence to deny that modern inks have caused an increase in the early deterioration of sacs. However, I've used "boutique" inks to my hearts content (ok, not really. I mean is that possible?), and even practiced horrible pen hygiene at times leaving inks in sacs for months and months without cleaning and flushing. It's shameful really, but there it is. And I have yet to have lost a single sac. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I know it does. But it still seems to me to be a relatively rare occurrence. Much more common than it used to be, but still quite rare. And there has to be some other factors involved. Climate, barometric pressure, mineral deposits in the tap water, a government conspiracy, a parasite in the rubber trees. Ok, maybe not those, but something as yet unidentified.

 

One thing I never understood, though, was that the advice to only use "pen manufacturers'" ink seems generally to mean pen manufacturers from Europe (Pelikan, Visconti, Mount Blanc, etc.) but not from Asia (Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, etc.). J. Herbin is as boutique as you can get, but it seems to get a pass. Mount Blanc inks seem very boutqueish to me, but they are "ok" even though Pilot and Sailor inks are not. So, honestly, I think we are not talking about pen manufacturer ink vs. boutique ink but European ink vs. more Asian style ink. In other words, race bias. I'm kidding!!! Seriously, totally joking. But I don't really know or understand what "pen manufacturer" ink means. Some would say ink that has been around a good long time and is time tested, etc., but Mount Blanc is regularly putting out new inks and they are deemed acceptable. Perhaps, less saturated vs. more saturated? But there are plenty of boutique inks that are less saturated. Not trying to be that guy. I'm just not sure where that line is between what is "safe" and what is not.

[zwack]

That is it... it is a Government conspiracy. A custom ink sac eating bacteria that was produced by a rubber producing country too increase their exports. They didnt realise that Ink sacs were such a small market.

[dannystr78]

That is it... it is a Government conspiracy. A custom ink sac eating bacteria that was produced by a rubber producing country too increase their exports. They didnt realise that Ink sacs were such a small market.

 

Brilliant! It all makes sense now.

Edited March 2, 2016 by dannystr78

[PaperQueen]

But I don't really know or understand what "pen manufacturer" ink means. Some would say ink that has been around a good long time and is time tested, etc., but Mount Blanc is regularly putting out new inks and they are deemed acceptable. Perhaps, less saturated vs. more saturated? But there are plenty of boutique inks that are less saturated. Not trying to be that guy. I'm just not sure where that line is between what is "safe" and what is not.

 

I'm so relieved to hear someone else say this---I, too, am perplexed by the blurred lines between "pen manufacturer" ink, "boutique" ink, "safe" ink, and "unsafe ink," whereas variations between European, Asian, and American ink styles seems to fall more easily into place.

 

I sincerely hope J. Herbin is, across the board, a safe option for my Esties since using only standard ink colors would be such a loss (keeping in mind, it would be nice to hold repairs to a minimum).

[dannystr78]

PaperQueen, I personally have never heard of J. Herbin causing deterioration of an ink sac. Others on here I'm sure have more experience than I, but I personally would think you are pretty safe. Besides, Herbin does predate the sac eating epidemic of the 21st century. Using the highly saturated 1670s ink maybe living a bit dangerously, but I like to think that increasing the pen survival rate is not as high a priority as LIVING! IMO. Viva la liberte!

[Bill Wood]

Well. That's the thing isn't it. One must chose between inks that are kind to sacs, and pens that can handle the boutique inks. No problem if you're used to sac repair, but I just had a Menlo that's going back to Edison for repair. Sac failure. But also boutique inks are fast becoming the norm. Modern pens can handle it, vintage not so much.

 

It's pointless to make a list of the boutiques because they all act differently. I don't even think that Diamine is safe. Blue's maybe. Waterman for sure. Different inks now offer eye popping colors and some are safe for cold temperatures, and some have flecks of gold.

 

I believe it's safe to say if you're using a vintage or modern pen with a sac you've got to be careful with ink selection, fill it up, use only that pen, wash it out and let it sit WITHOUT the boutique ink in it. I use eye droppers all the time or always get a pen that i can somehow convert to an eye dropper.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Bill Wood

[Tweel]

That is it... it is a Government conspiracy. A custom ink sac eating bacteria that was produced by a rubber producing country too increase their exports. They didnt realise that Ink sacs were such a small market.

 

 

Brilliant! It all makes sense now.

 

I see that the cover story has been accepted. In fact the microorganism, which has been codenamed Andromeda, has a rather different source.

 

Well. That's the thing isn't it. One must chose between inks that are kind to sacs, and pens that can handle the boutique inks.

 

I suppose another choice is to use synthetic sacs.

[zwack]

Well, a mutation Andromeda-Theta has been produced to also eat synthetic sacs so, beware.

 

More seriously.

 

I have had sacs eaten, but it's not an ink that anyone has mentioned, I don't know where the sacs came from, so they could have been a bad batch, and I don't know if some environmental factor came into play. This is why I refuse to say which ink. The pens I have used with sacs are Waterman's 452 1/2V (and no issues with taking the pen apart to replace the sac) and Esterbook J... The only inks that I try and be a bit more careful about which pens they go in are the J Herbin 1670's and the Diamine Shimmertastic. And that's because if they clog the feed I want to make sure it is one I can clean more easily if I need to.

[tonybelding]

One thing I never understood, though, was that the advice to only use "pen manufacturers'" ink seems generally to mean pen manufacturers from Europe (Pelikan, Visconti, Mount Blanc, etc.) but not from Asia (Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, etc.). J. Herbin is as boutique as you can get, but it seems to get a pass. Mount Blanc inks seem very boutqueish to me, but they are "ok" even though Pilot and Sailor inks are not.

 

 

Sometimes I get the impression that "boutique ink" is just a euphemism for "Noodler's and Private Reserve" without the blowback that comes from naming names.

 

I'll also add the observation that ever sac or bulb failure I've experienced has occurred while a pen was in storage for some extended period of time, never when it was in active use or filled with any ink. Whenever a repairer has asked me what ink I used in the pen, I'm struggling to think back to a year or two ago to when it was last inked. "uhh. . . Some sort of Noodler's, I guess??" (Because I've got like 30 bottles of Noodler's here.) Then the response comes back, "Aha! I knew it! I keep telling people not to use Noodler's, but they just won't listen!" (OK, I'm exaggerating that, but it's how some of them seem to come across.)

[inkstainedruth]

I do all my own fountain pen repair work and I have loads of vintage pens. A leaky sac isn't the end of the world for me. I agree that there is too much evidence to deny that modern inks have caused an increase in the early deterioration of sacs. However, I've used "boutique" inks to my hearts content (ok, not really. I mean is that possible?), and even practiced horrible pen hygiene at times leaving inks in sacs for months and months without cleaning and flushing. It's shameful really, but there it is. And I have yet to have lost a single sac. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I know it does. But it still seems to me to be a relatively rare occurrence. Much more common than it used to be, but still quite rare. And there has to be some other factors involved. Climate, barometric pressure, mineral deposits in the tap water, a government conspiracy, a parasite in the rubber trees. Ok, maybe not those, but something as yet unidentified.

 

One thing I never understood, though, was that the advice to only use "pen manufacturers'" ink seems generally to mean pen manufacturers from Europe (Pelikan, Visconti, Mount Blanc, etc.) but not from Asia (Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, etc.). J. Herbin is as boutique as you can get, but it seems to get a pass. Mount Blanc inks seem very boutqueish to me, but they are "ok" even though Pilot and Sailor inks are not. So, honestly, I think we are not talking about pen manufacturer ink vs. boutique ink but European ink vs. more Asian style ink. In other words, race bias. I'm kidding!!! Seriously, totally joking. But I don't really know or understand what "pen manufacturer" ink means. Some would say ink that has been around a good long time and is time tested, etc., but Mount Blanc is regularly putting out new inks and they are deemed acceptable. Perhaps, less saturated vs. more saturated? But there are plenty of boutique inks that are less saturated. Not trying to be that guy. I'm just not sure where that line is between what is "safe" and what is not.

 

Ironically, I have seen stuff from at least repairer saying -- in writing -- that Sailor ink was was safe -- but to only use "German" inks (I suppose meaning MB and Pelikan, but possibly also R&K and De Atramentis) in "German" pens. J Herbin wasn't mentioned at all in the list. But I've had Sailor ink (Jentle Sky High) stain the snot out of a new pliglass sac in a Parker 51. And yes, I had *just* had had the sac replaced....

I think there are just too many variables, like some other people have said. Do I put heavily saturated inks in my Parker 61s? No -- flushing those capillary fillers is a major undertaking to start with. Do I put them in my 51s (and yes, I am saying PR and Noodler's inks, here; also "boutique" inks like De Atramentis)? Sure, and don't think twice about it. Would I put some highly saturated ink into a lever filler? Possibly.... I'm a little more careful about the Snorkels, simply because they're a PITA to repair -- but even had flow issues with [modern] Skrip inks in the EF nibbed one. Go figure.

I think it was telling that someone mentioned pen flush. My understanding is that some of the commercial flushes on the market contain isopropyl alcohol -- and yet I've seen repeated posts saying to never use rubbing alcohol on a pen. Which is why I make up my own flush mix -- distilled water, clear ammonia [or, in the case of an IG ink, white vinegar] and a little Dawn dish detergent (plus it's a whole lot cheaper...). And even there, some people dis-recommend ammonia entirely. We also don't know (with some of the anecdotal evidence) how long the ink may have sat in the pen, how old the sac is, how much pollution is in the air (hey, I live just outside Pittsburgh, and downwind of the chemical plants on Neville Island), how much chlorine is in the tap water -- not to mention other chemicals or minerals (which is another reason I only used distilled water for pen cleaning) -- and so on.

For every person who says "X brand eats sacs" I've seen plenty of responses saying "I never had a problem". So it really seems to be a case of YMMV....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bill Wood]

Overall reading this thread. Safe inks are Aurora, Waterman and Diamine. So if you like a bit of color with pop - Diamine sounds pretty good.

[JonSzanto]

Besides, you'd miss FarmBoy's dry sense of humor.

 

The drought out here in California really has had some interesting side effects.

Edited April 16, 2016 by JonSzanto

[Erik Dalton]

I had midnight blue in my NOS prize P 51. Loved it but cleaned it out now. Aren't the Parker areometric sacs made of a pretty tough material?

[ac12]

 

I had midnight blue in my NOS prize P 51. Loved it but cleaned it out now. Aren't the Parker areometric sacs made of a pretty tough material?

 

 

Yup

I believe it was Superchrome ink that was Parker's nasty ink, that the 51 could handle.

 

PR DCSS blue has been in my '51 Special' for about 3 years now. So far, so good.